in previous posts it was decided thst the 2 swarms i've caught were secondary swarms. i found what was likely a virgin queen & marked her. 2 days later no sign of her. a few days later there was another queen in the hive & no signs of the marked queen. so i marked the 2nd queen. it's now been another 5 days & there is still no sign of any brood. the marked queen however is in the hive. how long does it take for a virgin queen to get out & mate & how long after that til you start seeing brood?
the 2nd swarm is broodless & i think it's also queenless.
It can take a week before she's laying. I've also found the more a peak the more stage fright she has. Do you have a couple of frame of brood you could steal from another hive for your swarms? Those frames will tell you what's going on and keep the population more stable before the respective queens get going. I'd bet the swarm that you marked the queen, only to lose her but find another unmarked queen had multiple virgins.
multiple virgins in after swarms is common. bees cleaning off marks also common. bee keepers insisting on marking queens and bees balling queen, or keeper damaging queen, happens.
put a frame of eggs in the one you think is queenless. mark it. in a couple/few days, check it. if there are queen cells with something in them, they are queenless but making one. if there is nothing, she's most likely in there but not laying yet.
i did pull a partial frame of capped brood from the hive that survived the winter & put it the queenless swarm. i might just combine it with the queenright swarm. i'm not seeing any new brood in the survivor hive now. might be time to requeen it as well. i also hived 3 nucs saturday so i'm rebuilding the apiary after this winter's losses.
D Coates says a week. That's about right. Usually the queen has hardened already by the time she flies with the swarm, so it's about a week less than the usual two weeks...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm)
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Normal time from emerging to laying is 10 days.
Second swarm queens are in the cell 2-3 days and they are there ready to fly.
So they start to make mating flights at the age of 7 days and they spend 2-3 days for filling their sperma tank.
Yes, second swarm queen takes about 7-8 days to lay.
Rainy days often delay exit of swarms and then virgins are older and they are many . I have met 5 queens in same swarm.
Quote from: Finski on May 20, 2013, 11:19:33 PM
I have met 5 queens in same swarm.
How did you figure out there were 5 queens in there?
they introduced themselves of course!
Quote from: duck on May 21, 2013, 01:22:14 AM
they introduced themselves of course!
so they did, dead or alive.
went thru this hive again today & the queen is still there & there is still no brood AND there are about 6 capped supercedure cells. they are making queens from that frame of brood i gave them. so does this mean they've given up on the queen? these cells are mid-frame so i do not believe they are swarm cells. they've filled up the frames with nectar & pollen so i'm adding another brood box tomorrow.
i combined 2 very small swarms with a decent sized swarm a few days ago that appears to be queenless. i'm going to give that hive a frame with queen cells from the 1st swarm so hopefully that hive will be queen-right soon.
I've wondered but never asked why is a virgin queen so runny and scared acting?
so-any opinions on why the 1st swarm is making queen cells?
Mid-frame QC usually mean supercedeure. Sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread. The question just popped in my head so I threw it out there.
>so-any opinions on why the 1st swarm is making queen cells?
Swarms often supersede the queen shortly after they get established.
so michael-do they supercede virgin queens as well?
>so michael-do they supercede virgin queens as well?
If anything goes wrong, it's the queen's fault...
Michael,
I am confused as to the "afterswarms".
Everyone has the same song: the original queen leaves with the first swarm and they "supposedly" leave only queen cells behind (not hatched queens). If there are these afterswarms that everybody speaks of, then where do these [already hatched] virgin queens come from that comprise the afterswarm? In other words, if only queen "cells" are left behind the first swarm, how do they afterswarm with virgin if they arent hatched yet? Or are the people mistaken that say the first swarm never leaves a queen behind, only queen cells? Or do some first swarms leave behind actual virgin queens already hatched and running around (which explains why people say they see afterswarms the same day)?
Thanks to anyone who can clear that up for me I would appreciate it.
After swarms don't leave immediately after the primary swarm...it may take several days.
Scott
Scott,
So the primary swarm leaves when queen cells are ready to hatch within the next few days or can the primary swarm wait until the queen cells are in process of hatching or already hatched?
Thanks
Chris
They "normally" swarm just before the queen cells are capped but this can vary greatly. I suspect weather can have a great deal to do with it as well as flow? I've caught swarms with both mated and unmated queens before.
Scott
makes sense. the queen that's in the hive is is still not laying. i did give the queen cells to another queenless swarm. i'll keep a watch to see whether they make more queen cells. also, if this queen hasn't mated yet the hive would not acknowledge her as being a queen.
The bees confine the remaining queens if they are ready to emerge. Usually the primary swarm leaves right after the first cell is capped, so it's eight days later when the first queen emerges and three or four days after that before she leaves with a swarm (about 12 days or so). But if the first swarm gets held up for weather (a week or two of rainy weather) the second queen may be trying to emerge. The bees will confine that queen, and keep the current queen away from the cells. Queens are usually confined for a few days and sometimes a week or more. The details are all here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm#letter9 (http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm#letter9)
When I install a virgin queen in a nuc I leave them be for 10-14 days then look to see if she's laying.
When she emerges from the cage or cell she'll wander around for a day or two then go on her mating flights.