Went through my hive today. The bottom box is full and the second deep I put on last week. It has five plasticell frames. No wax coating on them, four wax foundation frames and one frame of really old wax foundation. It had been sitting outside for about 5 years. (My little experiment)
I moved up a frame of nectar to get them up there, and here's what I saw.
They started drawing wax on one of the plastic frames, I'd say about a 1/3 covered with comb and that's where I found the queen! The wax foundation frames they haven't even touched, and the nasty old frame they tore about half the wax down and have started drawing new foundationless.
I didn't open the bottom box because they had so much bridge comb built I didn't have time to mess with it.
Maybe one question I have is, is she out of room in the bottom box, forcing her up onto that little bit of comb?
And if so why haven't they built more comb to accommodate? Especially the wax foundation.
I think the queen likes /prefers to lay on fresh cells, I know many people have said. maybe thats the reasoning behind it, of you put your second brood on top of your first, they built up, for some reason deciding to just start with the empty frame, maybe do to positioning, and with the new fresh comb, she liked the smell of it, more, or maybe she moved up for another reason, and they followed her and then drew out the comb for her?
out of curiosity, what cell size is the foundation? is it wired, is it with or without cell starting pattern?
Quote from: Better.to.Bee.than.not on May 27, 2013, 01:29:20 AM
out of curiosity, what cell size is the foundation? is it wired, is it with or without cell starting pattern?
I do not know the cell size, I bought the hive from an old timer, was a hodge podge of frames in there. Some plasticell, some foundation-less. The frame she's laying in is plasticell.
the foundation is plasticell right? (even if it is on plastic frames.) plasticell is plastic core foundation coated with natural beeswax, so that is what they smell and why they are probably starting to build on it. They will often tear apart old comb or do not like it that much, they like new comb I think more, so does the queen. it may be due to the position the frame was in relative to where her and the workers were beforehand also.
Queens will lay on new and old comb as long as it is not to small or dirty. When the brood is born, workers will go in and clean out the cells but they can not get all of the old poop out and thus the cells get darker and smaller. A frame will normally last three full years ( I have never tried for four although some other beeks here have) in average weather here in Virginia, in Florida my friend is lucky to get two full years.
Queens normally lay in a circular pattern going back to the center after the cells are clean. If a queen gets to the edge and there are no clean cells the hive starts looking for another place for the queen to lay in. That is just one of the reasons (fast laying queen) that there are more swarms in May before the nector starts to flow. -Mike
ya, he mentioned above that this old frame was from like 5 yrs ago sitting. not saying they would 'never' use it, but I'm thinking would use the plasticell first too for that reason, and positioning.
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Beekeepers make much problems to themselves when they think that bees should do that and that.
In comb building bees have their instincts and if a beekeeper knows them and follows these instincts, things go easily.
A queen prefer to lay into brown combs. Bees collect themselves around brown combs.
Combs are used so long as they become too dark. It is not possible that queen lays only in new combs.
Comb builders are certain age, 3-5 weeks old.
.i have never met a hive which does not draw combs so much as they need. I renew about 2 boxes per hive every year. Combs become old, but they will broken too in extracting and many other faults will happen.
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i'd trust others before i'd trust myself anyways, but the original question was "Why are they doing this." pretty much right? my answer is still positioning and liking or being fine with the new comb smell. I can see them not liking comb that is 5 years old, and who knows what is or has been in it....and I can see them accepting the other fine eventually, so that leaves me with positioning, or no?
I put a frame of honey in the middle, a frame of wax foundation to the left, and a plastic frame (no wax coating) to the right of center. Haven't touched the wax foundation.
i think your bees are communists. when you look at your hive again, now that its been a few days, tell us of any new updates. is the comb they are drawing straight, finished, well developed or slow? still only on the plastic? whats the development pattern/etc.
Or union.
Update on the hive.
The real old foundation I put in they have completely torn down, and have it about 2/3 drawn with new. Going right over the old wires perfectly.
The plastic foundation is coming along ok, but they still haven't touched the wax foundation. What gives? Bought the pre assembled frames from a reputable local beekeeping supplier.
Just can't figure it out.
you now can truly grasp the saying most beeks have of "Bees just don't follow the bee handbook on what they do, sometimes....They must not know how to read."
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/04/3etuhahe.jpg) here's the old wax foundation frame I put in the hive. I guess they just like making their own.
really nice. Apis evidently have been found in fossils from the Eocene period 33-58 million years ago in europe.....so they probably have some experience throughout there generations at knowing what they are doing by now, I'd gather.
"No Apis species existed in the New World during human times before the introduction of Apis mellifera by Europeans. There is only one fossil species documented from the New World, Apis nearctica, known from a single 14-million-year old specimen from Nevada."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_bee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_bee)
Just went into the hive today. WOW!
For a month they haven't done much of anything, and this past week they've drawn the entire second box and filled it with brood and nectar!
I added a third deep of wax foundation, so we will see what they do now.
A few side notes. When I took off the outer cover there were drones everywhere. Was worried I had a laying worker or something. Went into the hive and everything looked fine, but what's with all the drones up there?
Also when sitting at the hive just observing I saw the usual couple drones flying around. But at 12:30 they started flying into the hive in droves. Do they normally come back for lunch or something?
Quote from: Psparr on June 08, 2013, 02:19:09 PM
Also when sitting at the hive just observing I saw the usual couple drones flying around. But at 12:30 they started flying into the hive in droves. Do they normally come back for lunch or something?
Actually, they do. they sort of start a all male country club somewhere and get out of the way of the females, because they are not really good for much, except feeding themselves from stores and screwing a queen who happens to come by. sort of like a 'staging area' then they do all actually fly back into the hive before the woman lock the doors on em.