I've tried burlap and the fuel pellets Dadant sells and my smoker won't stay lit for more than a couple of minutes without attention. What are your best techniques and best fuel for a long-smoking smoker?
Gary
I LIKE PINE NEEDLES.IT LAST A GOOD 3 TO 4 HOURS WHEN YOU PACK IT IN THE SMOKER.CUT GRASS IS MY SECOND CHOICE. SCHAWEE
Best smoker fuel..... the free kind :-D In my case pine straw.... got it by the acres and acres.
Burlap is my favorite and you need to have a foot square piece that you light and get totally charred and burning hot. Then you pack another piece on and put some fresh green grass over that. I can work thru a yard of twentyfive colonies with that load and you do need to keep it pumped the first couple hives. Then it is just available. Pine straw is real good and the cardboard egg cartons work surprisingly well once you get them lit and hot. A lit smoker is a skill that needs to be learned and every beek is irritated when their smoker goes out. Right now with the main flow on, mine just doesn't get used enough to stay lit. Only an occaisional hive notices I am there.
A small scrap of old denim jeans has worked the best for me. If handy a small piece of wax, burr comb, foundation scrap gets it burning fast.
I usually throw a wad of green grass on top to cool the smoke a little.
Quote from: schawee on June 18, 2014, 10:53:15 PM
I LIKE PINE NEEDLES.IT LAST A GOOD 3 TO 4 HOURS WHEN YOU PACK IT IN THE SMOKER.CUT GRASS IS MY SECOND CHOICE. SCHAWEE
+1 on schawee. exactly what I do.
...DOUG
KD4MOJ
Ditto what Vance said; A lit smoker is a skill that needs to be learned..,
I've been using hay, it's a pain in the but. I'm still trying to master that skill.
The brown bailing twine, NOT the green plastic.
I go thru so many hives that I have to have a smoker stay lit for several hours at a time.
If I'm going to be inspecting a lot of hives I use wood pellets.
I put about an inch or so of wood shavings from my planner in the bottom of the smoker.
I have starter pellets which I add 3 pellets.
I start the pellets and as soon as they start burning I add 3 to 4 inches of wood pellets.
I set it to the side and give it some puffs from the bellows.
It will give me smoke for 5-7 hours.
Another way is to have the wood shavings in the bottom with 3 starter pellets.
Put a paper towel in the smoker to form a sort of bowl.
Put the wood pellets in the paper towel.
When you get on location just pull out the paper towel with the wood pellets and light the starters in the bottom of the smoker.
Then put the paper towel with the pellets in on top of the lit starter pellets.
That way everything is contained and ready for the next job.
If I'm going to go thru a couple of hives I just put Wood Shavings in the bottom of the smoker (about an inch or so) and when it catches up I fill the smoker with wood shavings.
It will have smoke for about 30 - 40 minutes.
Capt, that's amazing. At my bee club, we have a contest every year. I hope nobody from the club reads this blog, 'cause you just gave away a winning secret to smoker contests. Great contribution. Thanks. I'll work on it. But somebody else may have a good way, too. If the humidity is high, it's really hard to keep smoke coming. What do you folks along the Gulf coast do? And I spent one summer in South Carolina, where it rained every day about 2 o'clock. What do you do there?
Gary
Capt44, what are thestarter pellets?
I use pine needles and pine cones.
I use pine needles, but if I need a longer burn time I add walnut tree bark. It will stay lit for hours.
I like free. If it is free and will burn, it's good. Dead leaves out of the woods or clippings where ever. Its all good.
Quote from: Dallasbeek on June 20, 2014, 01:50:52 AM
And I spent one summer in South Carolina, where it rained every day about 2 o'clock. What do you do there?
Gary
And where in Sc does it rain every day around 2 :-D Wish I could find it...... pushing 100 now and dry. Maybe in the coastal area?
It was in Aiken, SC, in 1955. Afraid there may have been some climate change since then. i haven't been bach since, but would love to spend time there again. Lovely countryside, wonderful people. Texas has changed since then, too, but we're all brothers in beekeeping. I just wish we had those idylic times back.
Gary
I use starter pellets from http://www.Mannlakeltd.com (http://www.mannlakeltd.com)
It's basically like charcoal with the starter already in it.
I put about an inch of wood shavings in the bottom then add a couple of the starter pellets.
When the starter pellets start to burn I put the wood pellets in.
I have a bolt that I put in the smoker spout to smother it when I'm done.
One package of starter pellets last me about a year.
Thanks, Capt44. I'll pick some up next month in Minnesota when I'm there. Looks like good stuff.
Quote from: stanisr on June 20, 2014, 03:43:00 PM
I use pine needles, but if I need a longer burn time I add walnut tree bark. It will stay lit for hours.
Stan,
If you pack the pine needles real tight after you get it burning, it will last up to 5 hours. Also the smoke is cooler and no sparks can come out. I pack it down every couple of hours to keep it tight.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 21, 2014, 10:54:36 AM
Quote from: stanisr on June 20, 2014, 03:43:00 PM
I use pine needles, but if I need a longer burn time I add walnut tree bark. It will stay lit for hours.
Stan,
If you pack the pine needles real tight after you get it burning, it will last up to 5 hours. Also the smoke is cooler and no sparks can come out. I pack it down every couple of hours to keep it tight.
Jim
I use the same method. I carry a small cardboard box full of pine straw and just keep packing it in. When packed really tight it lasts for at least 3hr.
Ray
I used field cotton today for the first time. Mixed with pine straw. The cotton never went out. Some puffs and it starts right back up.
Quote from: SCPossum on June 22, 2014, 12:04:02 AM
I used field cotton today for the first time. Mixed with pine straw. The cotton never went out. Some puffs and it starts right back up.
SC,
How good/bad does burning cotton smell?
Jim
SCPossum;
What a great idea, I grew up with my grandparents. We worked cotton all of my adult life. One thing I remember about cotton. Once lit and packed the embers will last for days. On several occasions my uncle would dump a basket of cotton in an empty trailer. We would dig around looking for the fire. Once we went through it the next day we would fill the bottom of the trailer to see if it had a hot spot. I don't know about the smell but at least it may be good for a base.
There's not any cotton grown where I live. That's not an issue, my old denim jeans I believe are mostly if not all cotton.
Once lit, and there easy to light they never go out. I can check one yard and drive to the next a few miles away and it will still be smoking.
Around here you can usually find cotton rope at farm stores. It's great for working horses since it won't burn the horse or your hands like nylon will.
Some 6" pieces cut and frayed out should work great. I'll try it if I ever run out of old jeans.
Be careful with the cotton, I remember reading about someone using cotton and killed a bunch of his bees. The cotton is sprayed with insecticides.
The post was probably on this site.
RC, can you remember about how long ago that was? I'm getting mixed signals about this hybrid cotton. I was under the impression you didn't really have to spray it. Then again, it could have been the defoliation spray mixed with the heat that took them out.
I have lots of trees around and I use the punky wood that falls from them. It's just dry rotted limbs that are easily torn up or mashed and I let it dry in the sun and its ready. Burns cool and puts out a LOT of smoke. Packed....lasts about an hour but if I'm not done, I just throw some more in and keep going.
GSF, I think it was last year. If I remember right, the person had picked up some cotton that had fell out of the gin. It could have been the defoliant or the growth regulator, I don't think he knew for sure. Maybe Allenf will remember, I think he responded to the post saying he'd had bees on cotton without any ill effects. I'm just remembering bits and pieces of it and may have it wrong.
After a quick search, I'm thinking I may be full of cr*p. I can't find the post I referred to. I apologize, didn't mean to mislead anyone.
No apologies necessary. Heck, you might be right.
(about the cotton) :-D
Quote from: RC on June 22, 2014, 11:55:55 AM
The cotton is sprayed with insecticides.
Of course it is. Never knew any cotton that wasn't sprayed at some point.
Our cotton is organic cotton AFTER we spray it. :-D. Just kidding.
I think if you pull it out of the boll after it has been in the field open for a good while it is probably fine. Mine is picked up late in the year for kennel bedding for my dog in the winter. It has been rain and dew washed many times by the time I get to it. I had some from last year because the kids also make Christmas wreaths out of the burrs to sell for spending money. It lights quick and never went out the whole time I used it. A couple of puffs and it started right back up.
We are running some hives on cotton fields this year. Hopefully everything will be fine and we will add to it next year.
I wouldnt want to use it right after it is sprayed with defoliant. Almost forgot: didn't notice a bad smell. To me pine needles are pungent. Might just be my nose though.
Quote from: SCPossum on June 23, 2014, 11:05:52 PM
Quote from: RC on June 22, 2014, 11:55:55 AM
The cotton is sprayed with insecticides.
Of course it is. Never knew any cotton that wasn't sprayed at some point.
Our cotton is organic cotton AFTER we spray it. :-D. Just kidding.
I think if you pull it out of the boll after it has been in the field open for a good while it is probably fine. Mine is picked up late in the year for kennel bedding for my dog in the winter. It has been rain and dew washed many times by the time I get to it. I had some from last year because the kids also make Christmas wreaths out of the burrs to sell for spending money. It lights quick and never went out the whole time I used it. A couple of puffs and it started right back up.
We are running some hives on cotton fields this year. Hopefully everything will be fine and we will add to it next year.
I wouldnt want to use it right after it is sprayed with defoliant. Almost forgot: didn't notice a bad smell. To me pine needles are pungent. Might just be my nose though.
Thanks for the feed back SC. If I get a chance to get some, I will try it out.
Jim
Hey 'possum, keep us posted on the cotton thing. I'm interested in all the details.
I would think most any agricultural product would have pesticides....
Again the "I prefer free" works for me. I happen to have lots of sawdust of varying density.
I pack the bottom of the smoker with coarse shavings and then at an angle put sawdust over that. I tilt the smoker to do this. LIght the shavings and get the bottom of the sawdust to form a central red spot then put enough in to do the deed. I only have 4 hives but the smoker will keep going for the rest of the day sometimes, depending on the humidity and moisture content of the sawdust. Aggressive bellows will cause sparking
As was said already, keep a box/bag of fuel stored away where it will be dry. I use pine straw. Got a ton of it. Wad a small bit up and hold half in the smoker. Light the bottom with a long lighter. Once flames start coming up, I put the straw down in the smoker and puff a few times. When the flames start coming out the top, I slowly push a larger/thicker bunch of pinestraw down while puffing. I can add a pinecone if there is room. As long as I am patient enough to wait for the first bit to catch good, and not too fast stuffing the second ball in, the smoker will stay lit for a long time. And, as has been said, It is simple to stuff more pinestraw in at any point. I don't see a need to spend money on fuel, when there is so much free fuel that works fine.
So, what about a commercial beek with 500 hives to work in the hot sun. Doesn't his smoker need to stay lit for 10 hours straight??? I guess. But if it were me, I'd like to take a little break every couple of hours to drink water, straighten my back, and add fuel to my smoker. Doesn't take 3 minutes. And did I mention that it is free???
I belong in the free is best camp.
I used dry leaves. I live in a wooded area so leaves are plentiful. They like to congregate under my shed so I always have a dry supply. Lucky me.
Whoop whoop! on the Pine Needles. Works great, cheap and easy. Burlap use to be my fav but since feed started coming in paper bags its not easy or cheap any more.
pine straw and i pretty much do it the way chux does. pack it tight and it will last a long time. you can tell by the color of the smoke when it's time to add more. we used to light them in the morning and keep adding straw until we were done. we left them in a metal bucket n the back of the truck with either a stick or pine cone shoved down the hole between yards. you could get out and hit the bellows a few times and be back in business.
Used the cotton again last night. Thought it went out one time when I had a little down time, but puffed a bit and it started right back. I kind of like it. Checked into what they are selling as smoker fuel and it is cotton fiber and cotton seed husks. Hmmmm...same thing I am using basically. I might try to compact it some and see what happens.
Dallasbeek, I like dried sumac seed heads and dried horse manure best, but I think that how you get your smoker going is more important than what you're burning. Use birch bark, pine cones, paper, whatever, to get a RAGING INFERNO going. I'll say it again: RAGING INFERNO. Then stuff your fuel in, and top it off with a handful of green grass to cool the smoke as it comes out.
Make an insert. Fill it and light the bottom while it's outside the smoker. When it's lit well, put it in the smoker (with gloves and/or pliers).
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmisc.htm#smokerinsert (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmisc.htm#smokerinsert)
I used a lot of the advice above last night and the smoker kept going 45 minutes, until I put it out. Used an insert, got it going like an inferno, used oak sawdust, bark from my pecan tree and packed it in with my hive tool. It sat smoking without pumping the bellows for at least 15 minutes. It works!
Gary
Quote from: GSF on June 24, 2014, 06:57:54 AM
Hey 'possum, keep us posted on the cotton thing. I'm interested in all the details.
Checked the hives today that are currently on cotton. The fields are in full bloom now. The oldest hive (package started early May) has filled a deep with brood and almost an entire super with honey. The other hive (package two weeks behind first) has a deep filled out and a partial super with honey. I would guess they will fill out the super entirely before the cotton is over. We will know soon about the pesticides and the bees as the crop duster was rolling yesterday spraying pastures. It was a good ways from the bees, but we will see. We cleaned up some burr comb with honey capped in it and it was pretty tasty. These packages were fed a little when they first started and then pretty much left on their own.
'possum; How far from the cotton fields are your hives? I'm pretty interested in this because there's ton's of cotton around here.
Quote from: GSF on July 31, 2014, 09:10:52 AM
'possum; How far from the cotton fields are your hives? I'm pretty interested in this because there's ton's of cotton around here.
Gary,
Anything less than 2 miles is great. The closer the better, they use nectar to make the flight and it costs you honey. If it is the only/best thing in bloom, they will go out 5 miles. Problem is, between the flight loss and brood usage, you do not get any honey.
Jim
Sumac. I pick the big red heads in the fall and let them dry in a bushel basket over winter. ready to go in the spring. Best fuel I've ever found.
I have a big white pine in the front yard, so I'm using the pine straw and old cones. I like the old, broken down cone cores combined with old needles best. they burn smokey and cool, for a long time, and smells wonderful. At leasat I like the smell. I don' tknow if the bees enjoy it. :lol: I put a wad of green leaves from my over-abundant virginia creeper or some green grass (rare this time of year) on top, to stop any sparks and to cool the smoke. I forgot to cork the nozzle after my last inspection and when I came out 4 hours later to put away the smoker, it was still warm. A couple puffs brought back the smoke. I used that ember to light my garden 'camp'fire ring so I could sit and drink the evening adult beverage in front of a nice fire after the rain.
Quote from: hilltophermit on August 01, 2014, 09:21:17 AM
Sumac. I pick the big red heads in the fall and let them dry in a bushel basket over winter. ready to go in the spring. Best fuel I've ever found.
Hilltop,
I would not touch that stuff with a 10' pole. I am alergic to poison ivy so i assume I am alergic to sumac. We have a different type of Sumac here in FL. Lots on my farm, never had a problem but I am still careful around it.
Jim
I use "Punk Wood". the dry rotted limbs that fall down out of my oak trees. It's white and so half rotten that I can break it up with my hands and leave in the sun to dry out a lil more (tried it without drying and just wet enough it wouldnt stay lit.) It's good for about 30mins and then I have to refill it. No matter...I have plenty!!!
Quote from: Santa Caras on August 01, 2014, 01:15:08 PM
I use "Punk Wood". the dry rotted limbs that fall down out of my oak trees. It's white and so half rotten that I can break it up with my hands and leave in the sun to dry out a lil more (tried it without drying and just wet enough it wouldnt stay lit.) It's good for about 30mins and then I have to refill it. No matter...I have plenty!!!
Have you tried using pine needles.
I like to get a small amount burning and then start packing it in the smoker slowly till it is tight as can be. It will stay lit for 4 to 5 hours unattended.
Jim
Jim, we are talking about two entirely different plants. The sumac that grows here is actually a tree. Considered a "weed tree" by many as it grows fast and usually where you don't want it. Along ditches, foundations, edges of fields etc. Its also a great nectar source when in bloom. I'm told my Grandfather used it for smoker fuel. He probably got that when he worked, as a young man, for a large migratory operation. Elder Native Americans make tea from it and smoke it in pipes. I've never heard of anyone being allergic to it, but you never know.
Quote from: hilltophermit on August 03, 2014, 08:04:04 AM
Jim, we are talking about two entirely different plants. The sumac that grows here is actually a tree. Considered a "weed tree" by many as it grows fast and usually where you don't want it. Along ditches, foundations, edges of fields etc. Its also a great nectar source when in bloom. I'm told my Grandfather used it for smoker fuel. He probably got that when he worked, as a young man, for a large migratory operation. Elder Native Americans make tea from it and smoke it in pipes. I've never heard of anyone being allergic to it, but you never know.
Same here in Michigan,My mentor has used it for 40 plus years and swears by it. I mix it with hardwood stove pellets and I think the bees are calmer with the Sumac than without. I heard that Sumac might help a little with mites.(another myth maybe?).
Kings and Hilltop,
My aunt , who lived on a farm, once told me she used to make a jelly from the up right pod on the poison sumac tree. She was not allergic to it. I recall being told that some of them are poisonous and some are not.
The ones we have here like to grow along the creek banks and in our blueberry patches.
Jim
As to putting your fire out in the smoker...so as to not set your truck on fire when the smoker rolls over in the back from a bump...I plug the upper hole with a wad of aluminum foil. Fire goes out quickly...
Yes Jim that is how I remember sumac as in poison just like ivy.
wont that taint the honey? makes it scratchy going down, yuck yuck
I don't believe your pole is long enough though
jay
I used to keep a cork around, but I kept losing it. I just roll some green grass up and plug the entrance and then lay the smoker on it's side.
i used to cut cardboard to the depth of my smoker (so the channels run up and down) then roll it up tight and as big as the smoker then light it with a mini butane torch. it lasted for at least 2 hours. now i live on a farm and here is plenty of old hay
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 01, 2014, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: Santa Caras on August 01, 2014, 01:15:08 PM
I use "Punk Wood". the dry rotted limbs that fall down out of my oak trees. It's white and so half rotten
Have you tried using pine needles? Jim
Hey Sawduster...just caught your question. I have ONE pine tree on 5 acres. Not really enough around to use all the time. I have 30-40 oak trees. it's a matter of supply. Plenty of wood dropping out of the trees.
plus...that soft punk wood smokes such a white thick cool smoke...hard NOT to use it.
I've got so much I just keep a bucket of it and will load up when I notice the smoke coming out of the smoker getting thin.
Quote from: Santa Caras on August 07, 2014, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 01, 2014, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: Santa Caras on August 01, 2014, 01:15:08 PM
I use "Punk Wood". the dry rotted limbs that fall down out of my oak trees. It's white and so half rotten
Have you tried using pine needles? Jim
Hey Sawduster...just caught your question. I have ONE pine tree on 5 acres. Not really enough around to use all the time. I have 30-40 oak trees. it's a matter of supply. Plenty of wood dropping out of the trees.
plus...that soft punk wood smokes such a white thick cool smoke...hard NOT to use it.
I've got so much I just keep a bucket of it and will load up when I notice the smoke coming out of the smoker getting thin.
The reason that I ask, it that with a properly packed pine needle smoker, it will last up to 5 hours and blow cool smoke for the first 4 hours.
9 time out of 10, when I am done in the hives, I have to plug my smoker to put it out and when I go to use it again, there is still a lot of unburned fuel in it. That tenth time I probably just pulled what was unburned, out, and re lit it.
Jim
Please Google ( or the search engine of your choice) Poison sumac images and sumac images. You will find two very different plants. I would post pictures but my technological skills don't go that far.
Now is the time, at least here, to harvest the sumac heads for smoker fuel. Cut them off with a pair of nippers, put them in a bushel basket or burlap sack and hang them in the barn, garage or other fairly dry spot. By next spring they will be perfect for the smoker. Very mild smoke with a pleasant aroma. On the occasion that I run out of sumac heads, I use the pine needles.