Did some chatting on here a while back and was told about this book by a member to read. I have read the book which is a fascinating book to read and have been awestruck by what he believes in ventilation, or the lack of, creating a humid environment for the bees. A lot of his references are to the hollow trees not venting out of the top and the success of bees in the wild with this. Anyone here try his approach on this humid environment approach? All so found his top cover lid to be pretty interesting and it makes sense, curious if anyone else has ran with it and there results. Its from 1918, old but seemed logical. If you look on line it's a free book since the copyright has expired.
Thanks!
Really old book.
Interesting thoughts.
I suspect the fact that trees have leaves to cover the hive thus protecting from the harsh direct sunlight has to be added to the mix.
Also trees have water continuous travelling up the trunk taking gallons of water with it daily. This would act like a kind of air conditioning.
Between the writings of Ed Clarke, Abbé Warré, Johann Thür and most importantly observing feral bees, I stopped providing any upper ventilation years ago and have no regret. I often take heat for my approach, but it doesn't matter to me. Results are more important than beekeeper lure. We have all heard "cold doesn't kill bees, moisture does", but they forgot to tell the bees. Every feral colony I have observed has made every effort to seal off all ventilation except the entrance with propolis. I have often seen bees seal up screened vent holes when we try to force ventilation on them. When given the choice they will choose a closed void to build their nest (try putting out swarm traps that are closed and swarm traps with screened bottoms and see which they choose).
I often hear, "trees are different then hives, they have rotten wood that absorbs moisture, etc. etc.", but this does not account for ferals that take up residence in abandons buildings, water meter, or other man made structures that ferals thrive in. I will agree that wet bees are dead bees, but I do not agree that controlling moisture by forfeiting heat is the best way. Would you leave a window open upstairs in your house in the winter?
I have found warm bees produce more bee faster in the spring and warm bees can more to additional stores during winter and not starve inches for honey because they are too cold to get to it.
I commend you on being open minded and thinking it through verses just following beekeeper lure because that is the way to do it.
Thanks Robo. Do you use Eds design on the top cover? I really like it and am considering building some and putting them on this winter along with solid bottoms.
Quote from: Hotburn76 on August 09, 2014, 07:20:55 AM
Do you use Eds design on the top cover?
I do not, only because the amount of hives I have and the need to modify the top hive body (or all hive bodies for consistency). I have thought many times of just doing one hive as an experiment, but have never gotten around to it. I think his design will work just fine. I have made to top of my hives the highest insulative value which prevents condensation over the bees. I also reduce the volume of the hive to usually just one deep so they can manage it better and it stays warm. I have had much less condensation than I expected, most of my 10 frame hives so no signs. I can only speculate that the bees consume the condensation as they need water. I do have drain holes on my 5 frame nucs and will see ice hanging from them on occasion, but the top cover and bees always appear dry. I believe the key is volume of the hive must be sized to the amount of bees, too much space and they can't keep it warm enough. Here are a couple of my hives in March. As you can see they have been raising brood for a while and the population is growing.
(http://beevac.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Spring_Bee_Feeding_002.JPG)
(http://beevac.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Spring_Bee_Feeding_003.JPG)
(http://beevac.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Spring_Bee_Feeding_004.JPG)
I would like to add that raising queens using an incubator I have found that humidity is a must.
I keep the humidity at 72% continuously and have lost no queens.
But before I added the humidifier to my incubator I was losing queens just a few hours of them emerging.
I couldn't keep the humidity above 50% using a pan of water and cloths to wick the moisture.
But I bought a humidifier and set it at 72% and all is well.
I am a firm believer in humidity in the hive.
I tilt my hives forward a little so if there is a moisture build up on the inner cover or lid it will run down the side of the hive rather than dripping back on the cluster.
Thanks guys for the insight!
Robo, I think by the pic that just a "ring" of insulation is on the top, and then the same thickness seen is used for the lid on top of that? Is there a wooden cover that you put over that? And lastly, I assume you have no top vent? What you said about the bees consuming the condensation is exactly what Ed discusses in his book. I still have to start the second book you sent, looking forward to it!
I make a 2" shim out of foil back 2" insulation board. On top of that goes a 2" insulation board 'lid'. That is all that is needed. I usually put a piece of coroplast on top to protect the insulation board from the elements, but you can put any type of cover that you want. Yes, no upper vent.
sorry I have told ya I cant read
what was the name and author of those books.
are they in our library here?
Quote from: jayj200 on August 10, 2014, 11:33:17 AM
sorry I have told ya I cant read
what was the name and author of those books.
are they in our library here?
Here are the links I was given by Robo, excellent reads!
http://beevac.com/PDF/ConstructiveBeekeeping_Clarke.pdf (http://beevac.com/PDF/ConstructiveBeekeeping_Clarke.pdf)
http://beevac.com/PDF/warre_beekeeping_for_all.pdf (http://beevac.com/PDF/warre_beekeeping_for_all.pdf)
http://beevac.com/PDF/thur.pdf (http://beevac.com/PDF/thur.pdf)
Interesting read thanks for the re post
yes thanks
I don't think screened bottom boards in the summer make sense either. The bees evaporate water, just like a chiller, to ac their hive. Do you leave the door open when you have the ac on?