Hi all -
This is my third year as a beek. The hives are foundationless langs. I lost all hives last winter and started 2 nucs at the beginning of June - [Italian, from Graham's in Morgantown, Ind]. We have had an excellent flow this year with tons of nectar and pollen. In addition, I've been feeding 1:1 [inside the top of the hives to prevent robbing, which has been a problem in the past.]
These bees will not draw comb. They're still at a single deep, even with a starter frame of comb in the box above. They filled it and quit.
I'm stumped. And discouraged. They seem happy enough and the hives are plenty busy with a lot of pollen coming in. We have acres of goldenrod and the hives reek of goldenrod honey [I admit, I love that smell.] I really do not want to lose all my bees again this winter. What am I doing wrong?
I need help ... even more than that, I need a mentor. We live in the boonies and it is not feasible to attend a group, though I'd love to. Is there anyone in the south central Indiana area [I'm in Greene County] who'd be willing to answer a lot of questions and give advice to a newbie?
Are you feeding an endless supply? My girls drawing still and I think the key is, not letting there syrup run out. I have also been putting pollen patties cut in strips right on top the frames. They seem to consume it faster than if I put it up with the syrup. I think the nurse bees helping the foragers make the process faster. Also I go in and put undrawn in between the drawn (usually the center is drawn and I'll throw an empty foundation frame in. I have sprayed them with the setup too and that seemed to get them on it quicker. Just some tricks I have read about and used this year.
Yes, I am feeding constantly, 1:1. The flow has been so good that they've only been taking about a quart every 5-7 days.
Do you know if you have any beekeeping associations near you such as County associations ??? Ideally it would be good to find a beekeeper that would help you out who live less than 20 miles from you. I do know where I live (New England) there were a lots of queen problems with package bees coming from Georgia this year.
IMHO
The queens were very poorly mated I believe it was to do with cold temperatures and rain in Georgia this past spring.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Indiana
CENTRAL INDIANA BKPRS ASSOC
Indianapolis, IN
http://www.indyurbanbeekeeping.org (http://www.indyurbanbeekeeping.org)
INDIANA BEEKEEPERS' ASSOC
Mooresville, IN
http://indianabeekeeper.goshen.edu/Beekeepers.html (http://indianabeekeeper.goshen.edu/Beekeepers.html)
INDIANA STATE BKPRS ASSOC
http://indianastatebeekeepers.org (http://indianastatebeekeepers.org)
NORTHEASTERN INDIANA BKPRS ASSOC
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.neiba.info/Northeast_indi...Main_Page.html (http://www.neiba.info/Northeast_indi...Main_Page.html)
NORTHWEST INDIANA BKPRS ASSOC
Hebron, IN
www.nwibeekeepers.com (http://www.nwibeekeepers.com)
SOUTHEASTERN INDIANA BKPRS ASSOC
Moores Hill, IN
http://www.indianahoney.org (http://www.indianahoney.org)
WHITE LICK BKPRS ASSOC
Mooresville, IN
http://www.whitelickbeekeepers.org/+ (http://www.whitelickbeekeepers.org/+)
WHITE RIVER BKPRS
Spencer, IN
www.facebook.com/WhiteRiverBeekeepers (http://www.facebook.com/WhiteRiverBeekeepers)
Jim, I got 4 packages that came out of Georgia this year and I lost every one of the queens. However, I also lost some of my other queens as well. I'm scared to go back because I'm afraid I'll find a vacant lot.
I did hear all kinds of horror stories of Queens coming out of Georgia this spring. It did not get straightened out until about the end of May or so way too late for package season.
This past spring in about March northeastern beekeepers had another alternative since mann lake has moved to Pennsylvania they did get two loads of package bees from California over 2000 packages each time a lot of beekeepers in New England got them that I know of and were very satisfied.
I have been told when you go to the store it looks like a grocery shopping store with selfservice Isles.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
I had the same problem with a Nuc I purchased from Waldo Apiaries (via Georgia). They just stayed in the comb they came in and have drawn very little new comb. Five feet away, my second hive was a 3# package from Georgia with a mated queen. The package hive has done very well. Both hives were fed 1:1 for six weeks.
I guess it just depends on the bees.
Can you blame the queen? They had time to supercede. If she was doing poorly, I'm sure they would have. Also, she isn't the one that draws the comb.
This is another reason why, I am switching to all mediums. You could try to open the brood method, if all your frames were the same size.
I've had hives like that before, no snap in their step. My question is, you should be in a major fall flow and their still taking syrup? Something's amiss here, you need to take a serious look at your hives. You should have at least five or six frames of brood going. If you don't those hives'll never make it thru the winter. Now is the time to start making the decisions for winter, will it be better to combine resources etc.
I'm wondering if you've got a benign case of robbing (your bees are defending the brood nest and not the entrance).
rwlaw: Good question about the robbing. It is a problem here. I keep one small entrance on each hive to prevent robbing. Since it's time, we did the full fall inspection today to see what was going on inside.
Here are the highlights:
Mites [24 hr mite board]: 3 mites on each board. I had my daughter double check with me [she has better/younger eyes.]
Bottom brood boxes: All frames drawn [10]. Packed full of bees.
Hive 1: had only partially drawn the last frame. Brood everywhere in 9 frames Frame after frame packed with capped brood. Empty sections had eggs and larvae. Queen huge and blonde.
Hive 2: Loads of pollen, eggs, larvae and capped brood in 9 frames. Didn't see queen. Lots of drones.
Top brood boxes:
Hive 1: Had started drawing one frame from the bottom, very crooked. I banded it straight.
Hive 2: Had one frame with some nectar, but not much.
Honey stores: Next to none in both hives. Maybe a bit in the corners of some of the brood frames.
I am feeding 1:1 in quart jar on top in a covered super to prevent robbing. I put new in on Friday and they have taken very little.
So, this is what I'm thinking:
No need for mite treatment this year.
I should just keep feeding and watch them carefully so they don't run out of SW. Up it to 2:1 in a couple of weeks. Maybe open the tops in a couple of weeks and see how much they've drawn in the top boxes. Prep major candy boards for winter and pray for no polar vortex.
Is that about right? What am I missing?
Quote from: rookie2531 on September 07, 2014, 06:48:23 AM
Can you blame the queen? They had time to supercede. If she was doing poorly, I'm sure they would have. Also, she isn't the one that draws the comb.
This is another reason why, I am switching to all mediums. You could try to open the brood method, if all your frames were the same size.
I believe I'm pretty safe when all the queens are laying is drones..
kinda hard to swap frames around when that is all the hives you have your yard are doing the same thing and the replacement queens were not any better..
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
I find comb building very slow after the turning of the season but it's possible. Take a frame of brood (preferably open brood & eggs) from the brood chamber, insert empty frame in the next to last frame of the brood chamber and put the brood frame in the middle of the upper box next to your drawn out frame in the center. The open brood will draw the house bees up there (primary comb builders).
What are you using for frames? Sometimes if foundationless is not prepped right it'll throw them for a loop.
rwlaw - I can do that. I almost did that during the inspection, but changed my mind because our temps will drop to 40s and 50s at night over the next week and I was worried about separating them out that far. I'm not familiar enough with how bees handle the cooling/changing seasons to be very confident this time of year.
Since I just did the inspection today, should I wait a couple of days before moving the frame or do it tomorrow?
My frames are the kind from Kelly that has the little strip up top. They've got wax on them from where I cut last year's honeycomb out of them, so they've been drawn on before.
Seems like I remember reading something about feeding bees all the time. If I remember correctly, it may retard their foraging instinct.
Do you have any drawn comb from the hives that died out last winter? If so use it in box two.
Sounds to me like you are hving to keep these bees on "life support" way too long. Something is amiss. I would change things up. Take the feeder out. At the least, move to an open feeder some distance away. They should ignore it and go for the goldenrod. Those bees may need a kick in the pants to get to work. I would also requeen. Just in case the problem is genetic.
Quote from: Jim 134 on September 07, 2014, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: rookie2531 on September 07, 2014, 06:48:23 AM
Can you blame the queen? They had time to supercede. If she was doing poorly, I'm sure they would have. Also, she isn't the one that draws the comb.
This is another reason why, I am switching to all mediums. You could try to open the brood method, if all your frames were the same size.
I believe I'm pretty safe when all the queens are laying is drones..
kinda hard to swap frames around when that is all the hives you have your yard are doing the same thing and the replacement queens were not any better..
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
I am confused about this statement. I don't recall anybody saying anything about drones being the only thing being laid.
If you read my previous statements in this thread except the last one I said poorly mated Queens.
This is on freshly mated Queens in or outside of packages
One of scenarios we seen a lot of. (In the beekeepers associations I belong to)was seeing one egg per cell in the centre at the bottom in workers cells and the workers capping them as drones.This is only one scenario we saw plus a lot more!!!
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
OK Jim, Thanks for spelling it out for me. So I now am assuming that bad queens can have a bad influence on everything, including drawing.
IMHO...
assume very little in beekeeping everything is suspect until it is ruled out.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Hi! I live in Iowa, but I have a friend in Solsberry. She currently is without bees (She has 8 kids and is in the reserves) but I am sure she would like to talk to you. I currently have 14 hives, and 5 nucs. One of the hives is from a swarm that moved into a winter deadout. They also have refused to build comb, even though they had drawn comb to start and moved in at the start of June. They are also booming in numbers and otherwise very vigorous. I tried a frame of open brood from a medium hive in the super to encourage them, but even though they took care of it, they still refused to drawn on either side of it. This hive is a double deep Lang, supered with a medium box. I have given up on them, and gave them wet comb from extraction to put up more supplies for the winter. I will requeen them next year if they make it through the winter. Unless they have an attitude adjustment over the winter and start building comb in spring like crazy.
JC