I'm just trying to get some ideas on what's a normal reaction to a sting.
One of my hives has turned a bit unpleasant and I've been stung on two separate occasions now.
First one was 2 weeks ago and my own fault really; we've had a month of crappy overcast, windy, showery weather and I've been quite concerned about swarming and tried to check for swarm cells every 8-9 days, anyway, long story short, one afternoon, the weather turned bright and warmish, so I took what seemed like the only opportunity for a while and ended up getting nailed through the suit in several places in the arm, thigh and calf.
At the time of the sting, it's no big deal, but after 8-12 hours it is very itchy and over the next few days, I've got quite hard raised patches 50mm across which itch like the devil but at the same time feel a bit numb, if that makes any sense.
I don't think this is a serious reaction, (which I would take as an anaphylactic type response, difficulty breathing and other systemic symptoms) but is it normal? I've been stung a few times before without anything like this. Has anyone had or been aware of this sort of response in others morphing into something more serious after repeat exposures?
Most doctors say,
If the reaction is at the site of the sting, it's normal.
If the reaction shows in places on the body other than the sting site, get help NOW. Not in 30 minutes, but NOW.
Swelling at site is normal. i have some that take a day or two on the thigh. When I do cutouts I take a benadryl tablet before I leave the house . it helps reduce swelling after the stings. Kind of taking a flu shot to help minimize the flu. It helps but is not a cure.
John
Swelling and a sensitive bump at the site is a normal histamine reaction. The itching will go away is a couple of days and the bumps will settle down quickly.
Now, if you find it hard to breath, get a rash or have a reaction on another part of your body then get to the hospital quick.
Most times people say they are allergic when its a normal reation, its just uncomfortable and our life styles are not used to discomfort. After saying that don't ignore the real symptoms of an allergy.
The thing I find most amazing is most stings barely raise a red bump but some feel like you have been hit by a hammer and swell up. Maybe the bad ones are from guard bees and the others are from house bees with less venom. Don't know but its interesting.
Your reactions sound similar to many of mine.
Sounds like you could use a better suit too. I haven't taken a sting through the suit in years now, and I have several dozen hives.
Hi Richard, Have you tested to see if you maybe allergic to bee stings? The way you describe the swelling you can find their is some sort of allergy.
Quote from: splitrock on December 13, 2014, 11:23:14 AM
Your reactions sound similar to many of mine.
Sounds like you could use a better suit too. I haven't taken a sting through the suit in years now, and I have several dozen hives.
Hi Splitrock, it's a Jawadis suit with fencing type veil and ventilated panels in the chest and back. They've had a been pretty well hyped on here.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-268155.html (http://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-268155.html)
http://duncshoney.com.au/shop/4580906462/full-suit-with-fencing-veil/6985954 (http://duncshoney.com.au/shop/4580906462/full-suit-with-fencing-veil/6985954)
Its this one hive that's being difficult and I'm thinking that if they're like this now (the other was good as gold), it's going to be quite exciting later in the season when it comes to extracting the honey, so probably look at requeening it sooner rather than later.
Hi guys,
Thanks for all your comments and advice.
Paul, no I haven't been tested but I might get it done I think.
ask Kathy P what she uses for the itch
hear it works good
Quote from: Richard M on December 13, 2014, 04:57:21 PM
Its this one hive that's being difficult and I'm thinking that if they're like this now (the other was good as gold), it's going to be quite exciting later in the season when it comes to extracting the honey, so probably look at requeening it sooner rather than later.
I have/had one like that this week. The hive came from a trap-out I retrieved recently, about 2 weeks ago. (note, I'm in Africanized territory) The temperament didn't seem too bad when I first brought them home, and since I used a frame from a gentle hive in the trap/bait hive, I just assumed the colony would have a gentle queen at this stage. I did not do a thorough inspection at that time.
About a week ago, while checking the hive next to this hot one, I pulled the top off for a peek and to my surprise, was met with immediate resistance. It was nearly dark, so I closed the cover and waited until the next day.
Even with a nice sunny day and a little smoke, their mood did not seem any better. So I decided it was time for a thorough inspection. They wanted to eat me up! The 10 frame deep was packed full of bees and about 7 frames of honey and a good amount of nectar, pollen and brood in the middle frames.
I have a full vented suit (from Mann Lake) and was wearing my heaviest gloves, which is where they decided the found the chink in my armor. My right wrist was, what I call "point scraped" multiple times. No stingers got all the way through the glove sleeve to get logged into my skin, but a ton of stingers were pulled off into the sleeves on both gloves. The ones where my suit sleeve ends and gloves sleeve meet the heavy leather were poking through enough to scrape or scratch my skin and cause that all too familiar stinging sensation. So, needless to say, they WILL manage to find a weak spot if there's one available.
Anyway, I was not able to find any queen cells during the inspection. Which seemed odd to me. So evidently they did not raise a queen from the frame I included with the bait hive. Yet there was brood, both fresh and capped, so . . . did the queen move in from the trapped out hive from the wall? That was a bit if a nasty tempered hive when I was setting up the stand and bait hive, but not overly aggressive - like these are now.
They do have a full 10 frames to protect, so maybe that adds to the aggressiveness and maybe it's just one of those nasty queens with some AHB genetics? Or WAS I should say. I located her yesterday and will not have to worry about her laying any more potentially ornery eggs again.
I'll combine this colony with another mid-size hive tomorrow and hopefully they'll all be the better for it.
My point is . . . if you're getting nailed through the suit, I'd get her out asap. Otherwise, they may only get worse with more time and things to be protective about.
My reaction to stings is normally extra minimal. (I also do removals, so I likely get nailed a bit more than the average beek.) However, with the amount of scratching stings I was receiving through that area on my glove, my wrist was a little swollen and pretty itchy and sore about an hour later. I used some MelaGel and it's 90% back to normal today.
About the MelaGel sting relief, I was given a little disk container of this product by my aunt (my late beek uncle's wife) made with tee tree oil .... called MelaGel Topical Gel - Melaleuca. It seems to offer as good of sting relief as anything else I've found.
Here's a link for more info. http://www.melaleuca.com/ProductStore/ProductDetail.aspx?sku=3417 (http://www.melaleuca.com/ProductStore/ProductDetail.aspx?sku=3417)
Others may have an opinion about this product and/or other suggestions?
Good luck with your stings and your naughty queen.
GDRankin says...
"They do have a full 10 frames to protect, so maybe that adds to the aggressiveness and maybe it's just one of those nasty queens with some AHB genetics? Or WAS I should say. I located her yesterday and will not have to worry about her laying any more potentially ornery eggs again.
I'll combine this colony with another mid-size hive tomorrow and hopefully they'll all be the better for it."
It might be a good idea to check through the mean box that you combine with a calm hive, in a week to ten days, just to be safe and sure they don't create any queen cells and emerge a mean queen to replace your calm queen with.
This is an article that I have found very useful. I have a very similar reaction (large local) when I'm stung and as the article points out, Large Local Reactors are actually less likely to eventually develop true allergy/anaphylaxis.
http://wncbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Bee-Stings-Immunology-Allergy-and-Treatment-Marterre.pdf (http://wncbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Bee-Stings-Immunology-Allergy-and-Treatment-Marterre.pdf)
PS - there are two articles there so make sure you find them both.
Quote from: RayMarler on December 13, 2014, 09:47:17 PM
It might be a good idea to check through the mean box that you combine with a calm hive, in a week to ten days, just to be safe and sure they don't create any queen cells and emerge a mean queen to replace your calm queen with.
Good tip . . . will do. I also have to watch for take-overs around here. I happen to catch some stray/wild bees in an attempt to infiltrate a somewhat small hive. I noticed some robbing activity during a normal routine inspection round one day and went ahead and opened the cover to see what was going on inside. They had the queen (a marked hybrid) surrounded / covered and were apparently trying to kill her, so I caught her and put her in a queen cage I keep handy. I closed the cover and taped over the entrance and left them alone over night. The next day things were calm again, so I put the caged queen on top of the frames and watched for a bit. All seemed okay, so I left her there to be released via the candy tube.
That was a couple of months ago and she's still with the colony.
Quote from: CircleBee on December 13, 2014, 10:09:19 PM
This is an article that I have found very useful. I have a very similar reaction (large local) when I'm stung and as the article points out, Large Local Reactors are actually less likely to eventually develop true allergy/anaphylaxis.
I'm pretty happy to hear that. I caught a couple of stings in the ankle moving a feral nest the other day. I have never had a reaction before...
I was a bit scared my new hobby was going to be a problem. Will be monitoring my next sting.
(http://s4.postimg.org/cpnkvazp5/2014_12_07_10_50_56.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cpnkvazp5/)
Stings on the ankles are real b***ers as they can really swell from the blood pressure in your legs. Try elevating your foot as much as possible to see if it helps.
Quote from: CircleBee on December 13, 2014, 10:09:19 PM
This is an article that I have found very useful. I have a very similar reaction (large local) when I'm stung and as the article points out, Large Local Reactors are actually less likely to eventually develop true allergy/anaphylaxis.
http://wncbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Bee-Stings-Immunology-Allergy-and-Treatment-Marterre.pdf (http://wncbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Bee-Stings-Immunology-Allergy-and-Treatment-Marterre.pdf)
PS - there are two articles there so make sure you find them both.
I must not be destined for real allergy, then, because sometimes I swell up in a major way. A sting on the hand last year resulted in looking like I had a catcher's mitt on the end of my arm. Other times, almost nothing. A sting on the top of my head and I was swollen down to the jawbone, with one eye closed. Some itching, but not bad. It just looks bad, I guess.
Just out of curiosity, are any or all of you folks taking any vitamin C supplements?
According to the podcast Robo posted, with Amber Rose on Apitherapy, they don't even start someone with bee stings until they've been on 2,000 to 3,000 mg of C per day for a couple of weeks. That made sense to me, so I started taking plenty of extra C.
Since I do removals down here in AHB territory and tend to get a few stings on larger jobs, I figured it's not a bad idea for me. Plenty of Vit-C is good for us anyway, so adding a little extra was a no-brainer for me. Down here in south Texas, it's usually extra warm, so doing removals I sometimes end up taking off my suit once I get the bulk of the bees in my BeeVac and the major threat is boxed up.
Sometimes I accidentally mishandle a section of comb while cutting it out and take a sting or two on the hand . . . or sometimes elsewhere. (that little spot between the nostrils is high on my list of least favorite places to take a hit)
Anyway, I did notice less reactions to stings once I got on a higher amount of C on a regular basis. Just curious of any others are having an opinion about this.
PS. The pod cast ... http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/bee-acupunture-with-dr-amber-rose/ (http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/bee-acupunture-with-dr-amber-rose/)
Quote from: Pale on December 14, 2014, 06:17:54 AM
Quote from: CircleBee on December 13, 2014, 10:09:19 PM
This is an article that I have found very useful. I have a very similar reaction (large local) when I'm stung and as the article points out, Large Local Reactors are actually less likely to eventually develop true allergy/anaphylaxis.
I'm pretty happy to hear that. I caught a couple of stings in the ankle moving a feral nest the other day. I have never had a reaction before...
I was a bit scared my new hobby was going to be a problem. Will be monitoring my next sting.
(http://s4.postimg.org/cpnkvazp5/2014_12_07_10_50_56.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cpnkvazp5/)
Yeah, I caught three stings through the glove with the ba___rd hive again last Friday and my whole hand went like that - looked like a bunch of sausages.
I'm thinking to use escape boards when it comes to collecting the honey - get in and out real quick.
Regarding the stings on the hand - they were in the same spot as last time - so I suspect there's bee sting pheromone on there winding em up a bit.
The answer I'm told is to wash the gloves - but I don't want to use water/detergent as it will ruin the leather so what's the best thing to use? I've tried wiping them down with Methylated Spirit and I'll give em a good hard smoking before I go near the hives but not sure what's best - recommendations?
I'm a long way from an expert but I would have thought some sort of alcohol would do the trick. Maybe a vodka or rubbing alcohol, just because it is a little more neutral than metho? Just speculating.....
I'm just a beginner but i was given the advice to blow a puff of smoke over the sting site as it happens. It seems to stop the multiple stings to the one location.
I take 500mg of Vitamin C each day.
When I do get stung I put a shot of smoke over the area to mask the scent of attack.
I've been stung as high as 100 times below the waist and not swell.
But I did take a Benadryl tablet.
I have read you can try using bases such as urea, ammonia, and baking soda (to neutralize the acidity of the venom)
Quote from: Jow4040 on December 16, 2014, 05:59:48 PM
I'm just a beginner but i was given the advice to blow a puff of smoke over the sting site as it happens. It seems to stop the multiple stings to the one location.
Yeah, I gave both gloves a really good smoking before I checked the new swarm hive at the weekend and had no dramas but I suspect they're still pretty docile anyway; it's the bas--rd hive that will test the theory.
I find if you take the sting out as quickly and a carefully as possible it will minimise the swelling. Use the hive tool st SCRATCH it out if you have to.
if the itching starts, I rub alcohol on the area which seems to neutralize the venom. Works for me
Some Apitherapy practitioners recommend NOT to drink or rub alcohol as it minimises the venom effect...which is what beekeepers want anyway
Quote from: CBT on December 16, 2014, 10:36:11 PM
I have read you can try using bases such as urea, ammonia, and baking soda (to neutralize the acidity of the venom)
Historically, we've used this stuff http://www.stingose.com.au/product/stingose/ (http://www.stingose.com.au/product/stingose/)
It's just a 20% solution of Aluminium sulphate with a surfactant (detergent) added. Aluminium sulphate is also known as Alum, it has any uses, including as a flocullant in water treatment and in textiles. Also used in styptic pencils for shaving cuts.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7421683 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7421683)
It is REALLY (really) good against stings in the acute stage - I was stung whilst destroying a European Wasp (Vespula germanica - AKA "Yellowjackets" in the US) nest a few years ago, and immediate application of this stuff deadened the normally pain almost straight away (pity my employers didn't provide a bee veil, suit and gloves but this was the 80s).
Not sure how much use it would be for me withe bee-stings because I don't find them all that painful at the time I'm stung, it's a day or two later that they start to bother me, just itchiness & swelling etc. Would hate to get stung on the lower joint pf my wedding ring finger.
Ah well, I guess the simple answer is not to get stung!!!
Quote from: Richard M on December 18, 2014, 12:55:18 AM
it's a day or two later that they start to bother me, just itchiness & swelling etc.
My wife has some nasty "delayed reactions" to bee stings similar to what you have described. She had a couple of areas that turned black and blue and she said itching was enough to drive anyone nuts. So, she's elected to let me do all the bee work myself.
I'm not sure how much taking a couple thousand mg of Vitamin C will help you Richard, but it would be worth a try for sure. It does not cost all that much and it is something that does a body good, bee stings aside. So if you're going to continue to be around bees, it can't hurt to try anyway.
tell her the femmin itch products works well
and the zapper neutralizes many venom's
Quote from: jayj200 on December 31, 2014, 10:30:34 PM
tell her the femmin itch products works well
and the zapper neutralizes many venom's
:? I'm not too sure about either of those . . . and Google only made it worse.