So here is my question. I am not completely new to beekeeping but at the same time I'm not really all that experienced at it. I still get that little twinge of fear when I open a hive. Anyway I usually get Italians but I was thinking of getting something different this year. I was wanting to get Buckfast but as I have come to understand from reading a few of the posts on here the ones that come from Texas have some AHB in them and can be pretty hot. I cant have that since I have a little farm with kids on it. I just don't want to put anything in jeapordy also considering we put them in the garden and I don't want the family to get nailed just cuz we walk toward the garden. Now saying that I have had Italians that would come out and look at what we were doing in the garden regardless of a mow job or a weed wacker. I was really wanting Russians but I cant find any of them. So I guess my question is do I stick with the Italians? any help on the situation would be appreciated.
Popabear,
For your situation, I recommend you stick with Itiaiian's or Carnolian's. Rusian's tend to be a little more agressive.
Are you putting the hive in the garden to make sure they will pollinate the flowers? If so and you are concerned about them bothering you or family while in there working, I would move them. Bees will find that garden from over 2 miles away. As a matter of fact, when it is too close, they cannot even tell the other bees where it is , just that it is close buy. If it is more than 40 feet, for Itialian's, they will communicate direction and distance.
Jim
Jim, I never knew that. Maybe that's why I never saw a honey bee in my garden. I was just assuming that there was a better, bigger source and my garden was a waste of time to them.
Popa, I have italians and walked within 3 feet of them every sunny day. I have a gate that I have to go through that is in there path and it is kinda cool that I walk through it with all those bees flying around me. The only time they get aggitated is when i'm in there working there frames, or maybe the real reason is, i'm killing a few.
well they would come out and check see what we were doing but they wouldn't get aggressive toward us. The hive that im building is kinda ornate so I would like it in the garden besides I have a very large garden. I really have no where else to put them because of the way the property is set up...they get morning sun, afternoon shade and in the spring we get some pretty bad wind storms from the north west and the hive would be protected by a large juniper tree that would break the wind for them so its a good spot. I was doing a lot of reading last night and as much as I would like some buckfast bees I think I will stick to some Italians or Carnies. And even with my garden so close I had lost my bees last year and I noticed a considerable difference in the output of my veggies. But anyway thank you for you advice..I think I'll stick with what I know for this year.
I?ve bought carni and Italian queens in the past and mixed those hives with a number of swarms I've caught in town. So I have a mix of mutts at this point. As long as I don't crack open a hive, they've all left me alone. I mow within a couple feet of them all. When I do open a hive, I haven't found the darker bees to be any more gentle than the lighter colored bees so I don't really buy into the myth that the Carniolan breed is the most gentle bees.
They can all be gentle. They can all be mean.
The bees I started with would sometimes get after you 50 feet away from hives. I changed queens to Italian Cordovan, they are really gentle. Two years ago I needed a queen, when back to the fellow I got the Cordovans from. He has two bee yards, one is Cordovans and the other is Russian. He didn't have a Cordovan and only one Russian left, they are just about as gentle as the Cordovan and I think they are building up quicker. Good luck to you with which ever you get.
Joe
Quote from: Michael Bush on January 18, 2015, 09:53:22 PM
They can all be gentle. They can all be mean.
Well said. G
I've noticed that even within one hive you can get a hot set of bees and then get a more gentile set out of the same queen. Depending on what she was breed with. I had that same Italian Hive have darker bees one summer and then produce almost a bright red. So I understand that no matter what breed it is it can be either hot or not but when the general chariristic of the sub species is to be crazy defense...I gotta go with the others.
I had one hive that, every week, one bee would meet me about 10' from the hive and nail me rigth between my eye brows, week after week.
Do not know why.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on January 20, 2015, 01:13:45 PM
I had one hive that, every week, one bee would meet me about 10' from the hive and nail me rigth between my eye brows, week after week.
Do not know why.
Jim
Musta been a zombie bee :wink:
Quote from: sawdstmakr on January 20, 2015, 01:13:45 PM
I had one hive that, every week, one bee would meet me about 10' from the hive and nail me rigth between my eye brows, week after week.
Do not know why.
Jim
Remember that one I said was getting a pass for now Jim? Well they must be distant relatives...... :shocked: G
Pure breed of Honey Bee? When the Queen is made the genetics from both sides, Queen and Drones play into the breed of bee.
About the only way would be Instermental Insemination and even then you need to know the genetics on both sides.
The honey bees were brought here from Europe by the settlers, the bees swarmed and expanded. They crossed bred to the point where a pure bred bee species is unheard of.
That Italian, Russian, and such may have traits from 3 or 4 generations back.
Good luck on a pure bred honey bee.
I found the Italian to be the gentlest unless I p_ss them off, but that can be with any bee. I suggest reading Michael Bush's web pages as there is a lot of info there.
I hope you do not mind the reference Mike. -Mike
>that was not the question
>was what is the gentelst breed
Sometimes the correct answer to a question is showing that it's the wrong question... there isn't really an answer to that question. My point is I can't predict their gentleness by their breed. I've seen mean Italian bees and nice Italian bees. I've seen mean Buckfast bees and viscous Buckfast bees. I've seen nice Cordovans and mean Cordovans. I've seen nice Carniolans and mean Carniolans. I've seen mean AMM and nice AMM. I've seen nice Russians and mean Russians... I admit, I don't think I ever saw mean Caucasians, but I haven't had many Caucasians...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesraces.htm
My nice bee's can be mean just depends on the day.
I'll have to agree, you can't never tell what's on their mind. Sometimes I go out to my yard and it's like they want me to pet them. Other times, well, it must have been something I said.
What you fellows have forgotten is that they are females. You may not know what you have done wrong but they do. And they won't forget it.
Joe
:grin:
Quote from: Joe D on January 30, 2015, 09:38:02 PM
What you fellows have forgotten is that they are females. You may not know what you have done wrong but they do. And they won't forget it.
:grin:
Joe
:grin: Mystery solved!! G
How does one find out what kind of honey bee they have? I have had bees in my area for as long as I have been here and they are so sweet tempered. I have a hive that has moved in to the space between the walls behind the water heater and the underside of the bathtub in a mobile home used for storage. I can walk right up to the entrance of the water heater closet and poke around inside and they completely ignore me. I can't see the hive but it's right there.
You will need to ask them for their papers to know for sure.
If they are forthcoming with the proof of heritage, then go ahead and serve notice on them that they will need to move into your hive (with a modest amount of honey taken for rent), or you will have them evicted. Since they provided you with the heritage papers, they most likely will be more than willing to move into your hive.
:cool:
I'm just pulling your leg... I'm here learning, myself! :happy:
Quote from: Bittersweet on February 06, 2015, 06:22:52 PM
How does one find out what kind of honey bee they have? I have had bees in my area for as long as I have been here and they are so sweet tempered. I have a hive that has moved in to the space between the walls behind the water heater and the underside of the bathtub in a mobile home used for storage. I can walk right up to the entrance of the water heater closet and poke around inside and they completely ignore me. I can't see the hive but it's right there.
I would get them out, you know why we put mouse guards on our entrances right?
QuoteI would get them out, you know why we put mouse guards on our entrances right?
Seconded. Leaving bees in your walls is just asking for trouble.
Quote from: Michael Bush on January 29, 2015, 09:13:38 AM
I've seen mean Buckfast bees and viscous Buckfast bees.
I can only speak from experience with Buckfast , as that's all I've ever run. I've had as few as two and as many as ~75. Almost every year there has been an exceptionally hot hive, and almost every year there has been an incredibly gentle one (or two or three). Most are just "average" and by that I mean normally defensive of an intrusion into the hive.
I do believe I'm seeing a general trend towards aggressiveness. Last year 3 of my 7 were flat unpleasant to be around. One in particular would aggressively run folks off for days after working them, and "defend" the area 100' from the hive. 3 hives were "normal" and one was as gentle as can be ( I
could open it up with no smoke or protective gear).
Again - just me, and my experience with one "strain".
Quote from: Colobee on February 27, 2015, 11:50:16 PM
Quote from: Michael Bush on January 29, 2015, 09:13:38 AM
I've seen mean Buckfast bees and viscous Buckfast bees.
I can only speak from experience with Buckfast , as that's all I've ever run. I've had as few as two and as many as ~75. Almost every year there has been an exceptionally hot hive, and almost every year there has been an incredibly gentle one (or two or three). Most are just "average" and by that I mean normally defensive of an intrusion into the hive.
I do believe I'm seeing a general trend towards aggressiveness. Last year 3 of my 7 were flat unpleasant to be around. One in particular would aggressively run folks off for days after working them, and "defend" the area 100' from the hive. 3 hives were "normal" and one was as gentle as can be ( I could open it up with no smoke or protective gear).
Again - just me, and my experience with one "strain".
Are the bonuses of running Buckfasts worth the headache of running hot hives? I just ask out of ignorance. I know they are supposed to winter well and are good surplus providers. Just wondering why you have never tried anything different? G
I believe so. They winter very well, gather very good crops, queens typically last 3 years and produce abundant brood, and their daughters tend to produce every bit as well. Not much propolis and relatively little swarming (with common sense preventative measures). MO queens have a very high rate of acceptance and are rarely (almost never) superceded. I split the hottest hive & re-queened it last year. This year I hope/plan to introduce daughters from the gentlest hive to (at least) the other two.
I seriously considered trying some ( supposedly very gentle) Carni's last year, but it turned out it wasn't meant to be.
I mean absolutely no offense to Michael - I really like his book and find that almost all of my methods agree with what he presents. "Vicious" is a very accurate description of one of my Buckfast hives last year!
Thanks Colbee. I wanted to try one for the description you offered. But after the multiple reports time after time of the Texas BF's getting insanely mean, and worse in future generations, I was kinda glad my hive balled the one I had ordered. Maybe one day I will find a Ferguson Queen and give it a try. Not economically feasible to order one. Until then, I guess mine will be the open mated VSH daughters Im running now. Good Luck. Have a great spring. G
If all goes as planned, I may have a few extra Fergi's this summer :wink:
Quote from: Colobee on February 28, 2015, 12:53:34 PM
If all goes as planned, I may have a few extra Fergi's this summer :wink:
If you are doing a bulk order, please keep me in mind. Thanks. G
G, sent you a PM.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on January 20, 2015, 01:13:45 PM
I had one hive that, every week, one bee would meet me about 10' from the hive and nail me rigth between my eye brows, week after week.
Do not know why.
Jim
Just like the Lennon Sisters sang on the Larwence Welk show, "sisters will be sisters".
Quote from: nella on March 01, 2015, 02:50:08 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on January 20, 2015, 01:13:45 PM
I had one hive that, every week, one bee would meet me about 10' from the hive and nail me rigth between my eye brows, week after week.
Do not know why.
Jim
Just like the Lennon Sisters sang on the Larwence Welk show, "sisters will be sisters".
😀
...............
>I had one hive that, every week, one bee would meet me about 10' from the hive and nail me rigth between my eye brows, week after week. Do not know why.
They draw straws on who has to sting you next...
:grin:
Quote from: Michael Bush on January 29, 2015, 09:13:38 AM
>that was not the question
>was what is the gentelst breed
Sometimes the correct answer to a question is showing that it's the wrong question... there isn't really an answer to that question. My point is I can't predict their gentleness by their breed. I've seen mean Italian bees and nice Italian bees. I've seen mean Buckfast bees and viscous Buckfast bees. I've seen nice Cordovans and mean Cordovans. I've seen nice Carniolans and mean Carniolans. I've seen mean AMM and nice AMM. I've seen nice Russians and mean Russians... I admit, I don't think I ever saw mean Caucasians, but I haven't had many Caucasians...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesraces.htm
I have seen Caucasian bees and mean Caucasian bees )
I say the Italian Bees are the gentlest bees especially for new beekeepers
I haven't found my Russian strains any more difficult to work with.
My Russian bees do have this disconcerting habit of lining-up in the gaps between the frames.
So when you look down you see rows of heads between the frames looking back at you. Keep things smooth and steady they'll move out of the way. Still, it was a bit unsettling the first time I saw that. Very watchful, not aggressive.
My crankiest ladies are from a lovely bee tree swarm. Not hot, yet I have more of them flying-up to head-butt my hands than other hives. Keeps me on my toes. So long as it's individual bees doing the fly-ups and not a mass effort......
I'd stick with Italians. I had Russians for a few years and they were definitely more twitchy. Not super aggressive, per se, but nervous. More prone to jump into the air during hive inspections, and more prone to ping you when you pass by. Notice I said ping and not sting - they seemed more inclined to give warnings by headbutting me without stinging. YMMV.
I have a potager style garden and I really wanted to keep the bees in it. I did so for a few years, but had to move them when the bears discovered the hives. I don't want to put electric fence wire in my potager garden, so I moved them about 200 ft away.
One thing I noticed fairly consistently is that if you look like a bear they will attack you. In other words, if I was working in the garden wearing dark clothes and bending down on all 4s to tend plants, I'd be likely to get nailed. If I wore lighter colored clothing and/or stood more erect, they wouldn't bother me.