I live in Northwest Missouri and am interested in keeping a beehive. My father kept bees when I was very young and I want to pass on the tradition to my kids. I understand the basics of beekeeping and am getting in touch with some of the local beekeeping associations in my area.
I am wondering what the members here would say about placing my hives in densely shaded woods of my backyard. I live in a city of 70,000 and have 8 acres of property that is surrounded with heavily shaded woods. My wife really does not want the hives visible to the neighbors so would prefer not to have the hives on our lawn. I could place the hives at the edge of the woods but have a concern about my lawn mowing guy getting his mower too close to the hive and disturb the bees and or get stung. From what I have read, most people say to put the hives in a location that will catch the morning sun so that the bees will get out and forage. How important is this really?
Ideally I'd like to put my hives back in the woods where nobody can see them. Thoughts?
Any advice would be appreciated.
I have mine in shade until around 11:00 a.m and though there are a few out at 9 a.m, it seems they don't get fully going until that Sun hits them.
the general consensus is that too much shade can increase the small hive beetle population in your hives. mine are in full sun until 2 P.M. & back in full sun by 6. you can put the hives on the edge of your grass & face them towards the woods. facing them towards the woods gets you out of their direct flight path. I also mulch around my hives so I'm no closer than 4' to them when I mow. I've never been stung but have been chased by a bee or 2 on occasion. the girls have bad days like all of us so you just need to pay attention. if you're worried about neighbors you can plant a short hedge in front of them. holly works as a hedge & the bees love the blooms in spring. the hedge would also help as a buffer when you mow.
Make sure your lawn guy knows to keep the exhaust pointed away from the entrances to the hives. I haven't been stung while mowing, but they sure didn't like getting puffs of air shot in their direction.
I was taught to keep the hives in morning sun, and afternoon shade. I have kept it up though thought is full sun all day. I try to get entrances facing east and positioned in noon shade between July and August.
Can you thin it out a little, especially the under story and around the hive and to the south and east? When i was a kid i helped an old timer a couple a summers when he could no longer work his hives. He had them inside a stand of mature woods. There was no under story, as this had been fenced in along with his pasture back when he still milked. The hives faced south got some morning sun and were shaded the rest of the day. They were very healthy and good producers. I think if yours can get some air flow and a little sun they should be good. never hurts to try something.
The heat earlier on in the day get's them going, so that is a good thing for sure, but traditionally bees live in woods fine, and have for millions of years. I'd maybe protect them, and think about maybe even putting the hives up a few feet even, get them off the damp forest floor, the problem is of course accessing to put on and take off the supers, which can get heavy. also carrying your stuff through the woods when doing maintenance. If I have to walk more than 30 ft, I get annoyed and tired...lol... ok I'm joking .... but seriously it is way nicer being able to pull up close to hives, and do things compared to having a distance.
At the request of a guy with a nice bit of land on a river, I put a couple of hives "in the bush" last Summer. There were open meadows within a couple of hundred feet. I got stung and chased every time I checked on those hives. The bees did not perform. They died out before Winter set in. Not saying the die out was due to location but they were pretty gungho before going in there.
I am now convinced that my bees must have early morning Sun, should have little to moderate midday shade (no small hive beetle here yet) and afternoon/evening Sun is very desirable.
As a previous poster stated, "Never hurts to try something." I took that approach in my first year. Tried some things that folks advised against and some of my own wildassed ideas. The outcome was that some things that I was advised against doing, actually worked. Some did not. Some yielded information that I had not previously come across. Most importantly, I found out first hand about a lot of things.
Before 1990, the above posts were very good info. The SHB arrived in the US then. As they spread, beekeeping changed. If they have made it into your area, you have 2 choices.
1..Place them in full sun.
2..Place them in the shade and order new bees for next spring.
It's that simple.
Yep, I agree. Full sun if possible.
I rarely see a beetle since I made this a priority.
Could you go toward the back of your lot and clear cut an acre or so? This would give them some sun and air flow and still keep them out of sight.
Quote from: iddee on March 07, 2015, 08:22:21 PM
Before 1990, the above posts were very good info. The SHB arrived in the US then. As they spread, beekeeping changed. If they have made it into your area, you have 2 choices.
1..Place them in full sun.
2..Place them in the shade and order new bees for next spring.
It's that simple.
I agree with id and it hurts me to do that :)
Quote from: iddee on March 07, 2015, 08:22:21 PM
Before 1990, the above posts were very good info...
That's a lot of beekeepers, including myself, that are, apparently, 25 years behind the times. I guess I have some work to do... and I just started last year.
DM you probably don't have SHB up your way. i don't yet. he surely does in the south.
Quote from: kathyp on March 09, 2015, 12:19:30 AM
DM you probably don't have SHB up your way. i don't yet. he surely does in the south.
No 'probably' about it. As I noted in my post (Reply #6), we do not have small hive beetle here yet so some midday shade still works.
Kathy, I think that's just the mean streak surfacing in DM and SC. They are just poking at my tender spots to try and get a reaction. :angry: :wink:
Quote from: iddee on March 09, 2015, 09:20:32 AM
Kathy, I think that's just the mean streak surfacing in DM and SC. They are just poking at my tender spots to try and get a reaction. :angry: :wink:
iddee, you said,"Before 1990, the above posts were very good info.", which looks to me to be the same as, "The above posts are bad information because it is not 1990 anymore." And you are accusing others, one of which agreed with you, of having mean streaks and "poking at your tender spots?" iddee, you trashed the first five responses in this thread.
DM, you are reading it totally wrong.I said they were all good info before the SHB arrived, but the SHB changed beekeeping methods when they arrived. It is totally different now. I trashed nothing. As for you and SC, I thought you two were teasing me, as many do. I am known to joke a lot, and a few throw it back at me. It's all in good fun. SC, put your 2 cents worth in here. If I was wrong, I'll apologize.
Quote from: iddee on March 09, 2015, 10:10:14 AM
DM, you are reading it totally wrong.I said they were all good info before the SHB arrived, but the SHB changed beekeeping methods when they arrived. It is totally different now. I trashed nothing. As for you and SC, I thought you two were teasing me, as many do. I am known to joke a lot, and a few throw it back at me. It's all in good fun. SC, put your 2 cents worth in here. If I was wrong, I'll apologize.
I see teasing people and tickling children all in the same light - veiled agression. This is an international forum and people have slightly different ways of saying things so it behooves one to consider all the possibilities. I could not see many options to the interpretation of your post. It may be interesting to note that I recently posted a compliment - a bit in fun, mostly in earnest - on another forum and got deleted.
Apology accepted.
Let's get back to the original topic. Corey5594, do you have small hive beetle in Northwest Missouri? If you do, shade will not be an option as iddee has pointed out.
Crap. Another twitchy child.
ok, i'm not going to delete that, but i'll modify it after a cup of coffee.
we have some fun here. sometimes we tease back and forth a bit. some of us don't have time to read EVERY SINGLE POST or (god forbid) we miss something.
if you want help, being snarky is not a good start. if you have something to contribute, being snarky is not a good way to help anyone.
now i'll finish off that pot of coffee :tongue:
I live in a cabin in the woods, and my bees are shaded most of the day. Would they be more productive if they got more sun? Probably, but I like having them where I can see them.
We have SHB here in Indiana, but not nearly as bad as they have them in the South. So far, they haven't been a factor. You'll need to talk to local beeks in your area to find out how serious of a problem they are in your area.
You guys have this all worked out now? Are we done taunting? Lets move on.
Iddees post is really a good example of beekeeping is local. I have had a couple hive beetles in my yard before. Rarely though as my soil type likely isn't conducive for them.
But I have seen inside a weak hive in the South and the total destruction a strong hive beetle population can do.
So lets keep it all together here folks, the days are getting longer and brighter so we can get out and blow off the cabin fever.
I had a hive "in the woods" on my lot. They were neat the edge with clearing to the south, so they got sun early , then dappled light most of the day. I won't comment on SHB issues, but did find they were slower to dry and cap honey, and also had issues with mildew under the cover. I moved them late in the year and they took off, but to late. They didn't get the act together. I lost them just this week. I won't be putting any more out there.
SHB are definitely an issue to be dealt with in the south. But that doesn't mean one size fits all when it comes to handling SHB. I live in TN and my hive is in direct sun for a very small amount of time. Not a densely wooded area but still mostly shaded to dappled light. To the point, I of course have some SHB but they aren't uncontrolled. I find that by keeping extra space in the hive to a minimum the bees are capable of controlling the SHB. What does this mean for the beekeeper? Adding supers one at a time instead of all at once and reducing the hive to the point of crowding the bees in late fall has proven quite effective for me.
Dang I missed it....To address id.... man you know I was poking. jiving, kidding, whatever it was and I know you were.... no harm or foul here but you knew that already. But Ken you and I both know id is a .... well I'll stop there you said move on :)
As far dense woods and hives. As said. a lot of beekeeping is location. Not sure of Missouri.... never even been close and at my age probably want now. As close as I will probably get is Lawton OK when boy graduates :wink: But back to bees. Not so sure if it is the full shade and shb for me as much as the full shade usually means leaf matter and soft dirt for me. A great combination for the shb to pupate in my area. I can not keep bees here at my home place because it is nothing but a hardwood hollow with leafy matter and soft dirt.
I do like a hedge row to break the wind and add some shade in our 96 plus degree summer days :cool: And bees in the cooler dense shade will not exit to forage as early. But this is in my locale... Do bees live in old tress in the shade of course but for some reason we want them to conform :grin:
This is be a good to to post a reminder to the rules here at Beemasetr. Take special note to rule 2 in this case. Tolerance is pretty low for these infractions.
http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=19652.0
I would PM you buzzbee but I used up my 3 pm's an hour on id. We were crappie fishing before we got cut off :cool:
I've had my bees on concrete, on mulch, in the woods, in the sun, and I don't see any difference. I haven't found a good way of trapping them ♫♪♪♫'s.
Usually a hive that gets demoralized by losing a queen, has too much room, or is otherwise upset are the ones that allow the trash to build up. I find the grubs squirming around in that stuff on the floor first. Sometimes I DO walk out to find stuff oozing down the front, just to tip the hive and see it all run out, but never a strong and happy colony.
The reason for my placements are to get the workers out and working early, keep them cool in the shade of the hot part of the day. I've watched the beetles fly in at dusk no matter where the hive is placed. Putting mylar or aluminum over the top cover does wonders for reflecting a lot of that heat from direct sun.
If local beeks say they have SHB in the area, I would do what it took to find a sunny spot for the hives. Also use a trap in the hive.
I believe it was pointed out that folks from all over the world are interacting on this site. That is a great thing. We do have different types of humor. Some of you guys are very direct in your writing. Cut and try. Just give me the info, and skip the other stuff. Others kid around and throw a "jab" in what they take as a friendly way. It may help all of us to assume that the vast majority of our responses are not meant to be disrespectful, but to be cordial and helpful. Let's all try not to be so easily offended. We are in this together, because we choose to be.
For what it's worth, mine get early morning sun, dappled sun/shade in mid-day, then sun late afternoon. Zero of my neighbors even knew I had bees until I walked the neighborhood and gave away pint jars of fresh barely strained honey.
I mow right up to all sides of their house and they never have cared at all. Point the exhaust away, of course . . . .
Best of luck.
i've driven across the show me state a few times and i've never seen dense woods that i can remember.
i'm in georgia and i've been back into beekeeping for about 4 years now and i've lost some hives but not to beetles.
i went through 13 hives saturday and saw (and killed) 3 beetles. a couple of my hives can only be described as dinks right now.
that being said my hives are in full sun most of the day and i don't use traps or anything else to control the beetles. i'm not swearing that that is the only reason i don't have problems, i may have just been lucky up until now and the shoe might drop tomorrow.
i lost some hives in alabama in 02 and 03 that had beetles in them when i did the autopsy but i can't say for sure that's what killed them. they were in a shaded location, though.
Why do shaded sites encourage SHB?
>Why do shaded sites encourage SHB?
I don't know if any research has been done specifically on that topic, but SHB eggs require 50% humidity for five days to hatch. My guess is that the sun drives down the humidity and less eggs hatch into larvae.
http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/bees/small_hive_beetle.htm
I have done both but my results were not as good with my hives in the woods. My hives now get early and mid day sun but the tops of the trees on my fence row give them shade in the afternoon. It also makes it a little cooler to work with them in the hot humid Kentucky hot August afternoons. Nothing says fun like wearing a suit and veil in 99 degree / 90% humidity afternoon.