Installed my first two packages 4/18. I have the hive top feeders that have two chambers with floats in them. Three days after I installed them I took the queen cages out. At that point one of the hives were already building comb on the inner cover down into the feeder. Yesterday I check again and one of the hives had built 100% of their comb on the inner cover, none on the frames in the box below. The second hive built 1/2 comb on inner cover and half on the frames below. I shook most of the bees back down in the hive, sprayed a few frames with syrup, and scraped off all the comb. I didn't know if the inner cover was to be between feeder and brood chamber. So I put the feeder above the inner cover. It has been cold and damp since I installed the packages 10 days ago. Nights in the 30's and day highs between 50-55.
So was I right to change the inner cover from above the feeder to below the feeder? Could the bees have moved to the highest point in the hive trying to keep warm?
The inner cover definitely should be below the feeder. I take it you put the feeder directly on the frames.
Remember, a package is an artificial swarm. As such it is a wax producing machine. They will build wax every where you allow them. The inner cover is there to stop them from building above the frames and to stop them from propolising the lid down.
The feeder should be over the hole in the inner cover.
Jim
Sort of like this?
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BroodNestInFeeder.JPG
Sawdstmakr
Yes the hive top feeder, not a pail turned upside down type, was on the box with the frames. The inner cover was them above the feeder with the outer cover on top of that.
Mike,
Yes it looked exactly like that. Kinda a tough way to have to start the first time I really opened the hive, besides just removing the empty queen cages last week.
Flip the feeder up side down and put it on the bottom board and put the boxes on top of that. Find another way to feed...
Opened the hive this afternoon. All the bees were back to building on the cover and in the hive top feeder. There were maybe 20 bees in the brood box. Got as many bees as I could back in the brood box. Luckily I had the queen marked (I could have never found her) and got her back down with the frames. I saw her crawling on the bottom board towards the frames in the box. Hope I didn't injure her getting her back down in the box.
Took the hive top feeder off and replaced it with an entrance feeder. Since they really wanted to build outside the brood box I didn't want to even try a bucket feeder above the inner cover. At this point of only being a beekeep for about 10 days, trying to get the bees out of the feeder and off the cover is above my expertise level.
Haslowr,
It really sounds like the hive top feeder is set up incorrectly. Most of the ones that I have seen are designed so that the bees can only get to the sugar water. Do you have a picture of it or the name of the model?
Jim
I will try to get a picture tomorrow. Until then it is the type with two troughs that have wooden floats in each side. The bees come up from between the two chambers.
I have not used one but I think if you place it over the inner cover the bees will be able to get the sugar water but not get into the space above it.
Jim
>It really sounds like the hive top feeder is set up incorrectly.
They are set up that way. To use floats to keep the bees from drowning and they have full access to the feeder. Brushy Mt. as well as some others sell these.
I've seen some of these hive tops that have a screen where the bees come up through the middle. The bees can only come up through the middle then directly down to the syrup. Those don't have the floats and the bees don't have access to the entire open portion of the feeder. Mine is the type that doesn't screen the bees into a small area.
Since the entire week was so cold after I installed the packages, I didn't know if the bees might have all went to the highest point trying to stay warm???
>Since the entire week was so cold after I installed the packages, I didn't know if the bees might have all went to the highest point trying to stay warm???
That is probably the case.
I have never heard of putting the inner cover under the feeder. I have for many years put the feeder directly over the top brood box then the inner cover then the outer cover (that way I know where the inner cover is.)
Here is a link that almost says the same thing: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-add-feeders-to-your-beehive.seriesId-249743.html -Mike
Here's an update. Maybe this info will help someone else in the future. Check the hive Saturday, 5/2, two weeks after install. Twice I had to remove all the bees, queen included from the hive top feeder. The last time I removed the feeder and added an entrance feeder. Well they must not have liked being messed with so much because they all left the hive. The queen was in the box the last time I moved them. Maybe I should have put a queen excluder under the box so the queen couldn't leave?
I would put the feeder upside down on the bottom and let them expand up into the rest of the hive and remove the feeder when it no longer has brood in it. If you take the feeder you've taken their entire brood nest... and that's reason enough from their point of view to abscond.
Mike
The comb was being attached to the cover above the feeder (inner cover first time and second time the outer cover since I removed the inner cover). The comb was hanging down into the 3-4 inches of empty space above the syrup. I gave thought to rubber banding the comb that I cut out into a frame below. The wax was only a few days old and very fragile, so I didn't. Maybe that would have gave them reason to stay?
My other hive I filled the feeder almost to the top so there was only an inch or two of empty space. It is doing fine.
Thanks to all for their advice.
I had the same thing, I understand. But if you flip the whole thing (inner cover, feeder etc.) and put it on the bottom, then when they expand they will move up into the next box and leave that tiny brood nest behind.
Thanks Mike I finally understand. Inner cover and feeder upside down below the brood box.
Hi, I know this topic is very old, but perhaps some of you are still active and will get an alert to this. I have the exact same problem with three new packages. We had a cold snap 3 days after install and all three colonies decided the top feeder was the place to build! I get the logic of flipping the top feeder upside down w. the inner cover and putting it on the bottom. These are my follow up questions:
1. Because there was syrup in the feeders when I last checked and it has been below 40F every day since, how can I be sure that a waterfall of syrup isn't about to inundate them when I flip the feeder? There were about two-three quarts left in each when I checked on Monday.
2. I know the answer to number 1 could be, "well just look and see". Though I would like to do that, they have attached comb from the inner cover to the center of the top feeder where the bees enter so removing the inner cover to look, could cause some damage. Am I right to not want to open the top cover before doing the flip?
3. How urgent is it to put another inner cover on top of things after I do the flip? I have to make or get one somehow during this pandemic so wondering if I can get away without one for a little while.
First of all welcome to bee Beemaster.
Can you turn the inner cover and feeder over slowly in order to drain out any syrup that might be in the feeder?
Any piece of plywood that you can cut to the correct size will work for a temporary inner cover. If not that, a piece of a heavy plastic bag like lawn fertilizer comes in will work. Maybe even better, they may not build on it.
Thanks, Jimmy. I followed your suggestion and successfully flipped them! And thanks for the welcome :smile:
welcome :happy:
glad it worked out.