All,
I searched the forums, but the answer to this question didn't jump out at me.
I'm planning to build some deeps and see the height listed in various plans as 9 5/8 inches. Dimensional 1"x10" lumber is 9 1/2 inches wide. My question is if that 1/8 of an inch matters? I saw one site that recommended ripping 1"x12"s down to the required height.
That seems a huge waste for an 1/8 of an inch.
Ideas? Thanks...
I don't know where you are getting your lumber but 1x10's in these parts are actually 9 1/4 inches wide.
I just use rough cut 1x10s. They are cheap and I don't have to cut them. The extra thickness also helps in the winter. If I want to get real fancy, I can use the tongue and groove router bits and make the boxes lock together... I think this might cause other issues. My father likes to talk about frames propolised to the box above and the girls were not happy when they broke free and dropped back down.
A 1x10 originally were rough cut and sold as 1x10 then they planed a finish and have slowly shrunk in size. Hench the 9 5/8". When I was a young lad they were 9 1/2". Now here they are between 9 1/4 and 9 3/8. It depends on where the wood was made.
What is important is maintaining bees space between the boxes. If you are like most of us beeks that can make our own equipment, it is not worth making your own frames. Like commercial supers, the frames come in different dimensions. Get a hold of the frames you will be using and check your measurements.
I normally see 1/4" space above the frames and 1/8" below the frames to give 3/8" space between the frames between supers.
Bee space is from 1/4" to 3/8" in the interior space. Below the bottom frames they will allow for a larger area.
If you are going to make your own frames, just adjust them to match your supers.
Jim
I like to rip the 1x12 and use the scrap for cleat hand-hold.
Thanks for the feedback. I went out and measured one of the commercial deeps and it was actually a full 9 11/16 inches high. Guess I will go with the 1"x12".
Quote from: richter1978 on May 27, 2015, 10:38:13 PM
I like to rip the 1x12 and use the scrap for cleat hand-hold.
+1
I butt the ends using blind dowels, clamps and Tightbond II, so I only need six feet of board. No nails or screws to rust, no box joints to catch water, crack, and separate. But I only have two hives to support and they are in my backyard.
:cool:
In this part of the country a 1x10 is unheard of anymore.
I take a 1x12 which is actually a 3/4 x 11 1/2 inch
I rip them to 9 5/8 x however long the board needs to be.
I either use a rabbet joint or box joints.
I can cut either at about the same speed.
I cut box joints 8 boards at a time.
I using box joints be careful of the thickness of the board.
Depending on where it was milled or planned it can be either 3/4 or 13/16 inch which will make a difference on how the box joints match.
Using rabbet joints I cut my short boards 16 1/4 inches long and cut a 3/4 rabbet on each end.
I cut my long board 19 1/8 inches long so when you put the ends on it makes the box 19 7/8 inches long.
Using box joints I cut the short boards 16 1/4 inches long and the long board 19 7/8 inches long.
I never use butt joints.
Just an update. Bought some 1"x12"s and ripped them. Built a box joint jig and made a few new boxes. Only issue at this point is trying to figure out a way to prevent the dado blade from tearing out so much. Tried masking tape and a slow feed speed, but still don't like the amount of splintering. Maybe the blade isn't the best.
Thanks for all the input.
Quote from: kayaks on June 05, 2015, 03:39:33 PM
Just an update. Bought some 1"x12"s and ripped them. Built a box joint jig and made a few new boxes. Only issue at this point is trying to figure out a way to prevent the dado blade from tearing out so much. Tried masking tape and a slow feed speed, but still don't like the amount of splintering. Maybe the blade isn't the best.
Thanks for all the input.
Kayaks,
The reason that you have too much tear out is probably due to your jig was at one point cut deeper than the cut you are now using. In my home made jig, I have a replaceable thin board insert that I can change when ever I need to reduce the size of the slot being cut.
If there is nothing behind the area around the area being cut, it will tear out.
Jim
I have not done this yet but I am about to buy a dovetail jig for my router. Has anybody tried dovetail joints? If so would you recommend blind dovetail joints? Which direction would you recommend sliding them together? I would think the face of the frame side would be the blind side if your doing blind joints.
I have made dovetail joints but never for beehives. You could make either side the blind side. It would just be your personal preference.
Jim
Quote from: Eric Bosworth on June 06, 2015, 07:55:43 AM
I have not done this yet but I am about to buy a dovetail jig for my router. Has anybody tried dovetail joints? If so would you recommend blind dovetail joints? Which direction would you recommend sliding them together? I would think the face of the frame side would be the blind side if your doing blind joints.
dovetail
http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?action=search2
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
Jim,
Something went wrong with that link. Maybe you could re post it.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 07, 2015, 07:24:55 AM
Jim,
Something went wrong with that link. Maybe you could re post it.
Jim
OK so it wasn't just me that had trouble with the link. The reason I asked about blind dovetails and which way is best is because of strength regarding prying frames that have been propolized to hive bodies. I doubt I would use blind dovetails I mentioned it more for reference sliding parts together. But just writing this post made me think blind dovetails might be better keeping the water out.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 06, 2015, 05:02:25 AMThe reason that you have too much tear out is probably due to your jig was at one point cut deeper than the cut you are now using...
I see your point. The fence on my jig would need to be put on the other side to accomplish what you are suggesting. Worth a try changing it.
I'm new at both beekeeping and woodwork, so please bear that in mind.
To make some medium bodies I purchased three 1" x 8" x 8' boards, at a cost of about $9 each.
Despite them being sold as premium grade I would put them in the firewood class, because that's about all they could be used for. Full of knots and about as straight as a dogs back leg. I did manage to make some usable bodies of of them though, but due to the waste from trimming them from 7 1/2" to 6 5/8" I looked at alternatives.
My local big box had a good selection of 1" x 4" x 8' boards with very few knots at about $2 each.
Cut the boards to length plus an extra 1" for trimming. Ran the edge of two boards through my budget router table with a 1/4" slot cutting bit set at 3/8" deep. Cut a strip of 1/4" lujan plywood to a width of 5/8" and used it as a spline. Used a quality exterior glue, clamped it up.
When dry trued it up and trimmed to length to give a 7" wide board for less than half the price of a 1" x 8"
Add a third board and you will get a width of 10 1/2", perfect for a deep.
http://www.woodworking.com/ww/Article/Adding-Biscuits-and-Splines-7590.aspx (http://www.woodworking.com/ww/Article/Adding-Biscuits-and-Splines-7590.aspx)
Quote from: NeilTheCop on June 25, 2015, 12:11:46 PM
To make some medium bodies I purchased three 1" x 8" x 8' boards, at a cost of about $9 each.
Ok... If you only have 1 or 2 hives and that is all you ever want then by all means make them gorgeous. If you have any plans to grow your apiary and get lots of hives then cheap lumber is important. That is why I use rough cut. I get a 1"X10"X8' for $4.33 http://www.sawbiz.com/dimensional-lumber.html (The price went up since I last bought some it used to be $4.00) Yes, it's not planed down to a nice smooth finish. Oh darn... The bees don't care. It is a full 1" thick! In the winter... especially last winter around here they need all the insulation they can get! Perhaps I am just lucky that I live near a sawmill but $9 for a 1"X8"X8' seems very steep to me, especially if it is planed down to 3/4" X 7.5" X 8'.
There is always personal preference. But for my money, functionality is much more important than looks. More expensive lumber will not be any more functional than cheap rough cut lumber for bee hives. If I was making something that had a beauty requirement then by all means I would buy nice pretty wood. For beehives, that isn't a requirement. As long as the bees are happy and I can easily get honey, wax, and propolis from them then money is all that matters. As long as there is a nectar flow the bees will be happy in just about anything.
To keep a box joint from tearing out you need what I call a blow out board.
I cut 8 boards at a time and have a 1/2 inch thick board clamped to my other 8 boards.
The final product is smooth cuts.
I use the flipper system jig for cutting my box joints.
In less than 10 minutes I can cut enough box joints to build 4 boxes.
Quote from: Eric Bosworth on June 25, 2015, 02:39:09 PM
Quote from: NeilTheCop on June 25, 2015, 12:11:46 PM
To make some medium bodies I purchased three 1" x 8" x 8' boards, at a cost of about $9 each.
Ok... If you only have 1 or 2 hives and that is all you ever want then by all means make them gorgeous. If you have any plans to grow your apiary and get lots of hives then cheap lumber is important. That is why I use rough cut. I get a 1"X10"X8' for $4.33 http://www.sawbiz.com/dimensional-lumber.html (The price went up since I last bought some it used to be $4.00) Yes, it's not planed down to a nice smooth finish. Oh darn... The bees don't care. It is a full 1" thick! In the winter... especially last winter around here they need all the insulation they can get! Perhaps I am just lucky that I live near a sawmill but $9 for a 1"X8"X8' seems very steep to me, especially if it is planed down to 3/4" X 7.5" X 8'.
There's not many trees in southern New Mexico, so you only have what the big box stores sell and the cost of shipping the timber from the company you suggested would be about one arm and one leg.
If they could make boards out of tumbleweeds we would corner the timber market :cheesy:
Boards out of tumbleweed is possible I would imagine. I have been told that saw mills around here break even with sawdust they sell to use in OSB board. I would think you could do the same with tumbleweed... I wouldn't use it for hives and I have no idea of the cost effectiveness but it probably can be done.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 06, 2015, 05:02:25 AMThe reason that you have too much tear out is probably due to your jig was at one point cut deeper than the cut you are now using. In my home made jig, I have a replaceable thin board insert that I can change when ever I need to reduce the size of the slot being cut. If there is nothing behind the area around the area being cut, it will tear out.
FYI - Moved the fence on my jig to the opposite side and that made a huge difference in the tear out.
Quote from: Eric Bosworth on June 27, 2015, 06:48:03 AM
Boards out of tumbleweed is possible I would imagine. I have been told that saw mills around here break even with sawdust they sell to use in OSB board. I would think you could do the same with tumbleweed... I wouldn't use it for hives and I have no idea of the cost effectiveness but it probably can be done.
Eric,
OSB is not really made from sawdust. It is made from crushed logs that are then flattened and glued back together.
Particle board is made from sawdust.
Jim
OK... In any case either could be made into bee hives but I would not recommend it. Particle board would not last long at all.
I have some swarm traps that are from plywood and some that are OSB. The plywoods do not last too long but the OSB is holding up. On the OSB traps, I will in the future, add a wood strip to the tops where I screw the lid down. Screwing into the edge of OSB does not hold up very well.
Jim
Quote from: Sundog on May 28, 2015, 10:49:14 PM
Quote from: richter1978 on May 27, 2015, 10:38:13 PM
I like to rip the 1x12 and use the scrap for cleat hand-hold.
+1
I butt the ends using blind dowels, clamps and Tightbond II, so I only need six feet of board. No nails or screws to rust, no box joints to catch water, crack, and separate. But I only have two hives to support and they are in my backyard.
:cool:
I use butt joints also and Kreg pocket holes. Very simple and fast and as you say 6 feet gives me a bit of wiggle room.
Quote from: kayaks on June 05, 2015, 03:39:33 PM
Just an update. Bought some 1"x12"s and ripped them. Built a box joint jig and made a few new boxes. Only issue at this point is trying to figure out a way to prevent the dado blade from tearing out so much. Tried masking tape and a slow feed speed, but still don't like the amount of splintering. Maybe the blade isn't the best.
Thanks for all the input.
I use what I call a blow out board to keep down splintering.
I cut 8 boards at a time with a 1/2 inch blow out board to keep down the splintering on the last cut.
Quote from: kayaks on June 05, 2015, 03:39:33 PM
Just an update. Bought some 1"x12"s and ripped them. Built a box joint jig and made a few new boxes. Only issue at this point is trying to figure out a way to prevent the dado blade from tearing out so much. Tried masking tape and a slow feed speed, but still don't like the amount of splintering. Maybe the blade isn't the best.
Thanks for all the input.
When I make box joints I cut 8 boards at one time.
To prevent a blow out or tear out use an old board for the final board.
That will prevent tear out.
I just hang them on the wall and marked them blow out boards that I re-use.