Was out to dinner last night. Small town, MT. Talk with the waitress about honey mustard dressing led to talk about bees. She knows everyone so I told her if she ever knew of a swarm to let me know. She says, matter of fact, bees just moved into the back of the liquor store next door. And lo and behold, the owner of it is standing right there! lol He showed me where they are. It was late, around 8:30, so not much activity. Been there for a week, he said. They are getting in along a crack between two brick buildings. About 8' up. He was happy that I said I would try to get get them. It's my first year though and have only considered maybe catching a swarm. This will require a trap out, right? If I put a box up by the entrance with a frame of drawn comb maybe, would they consider relocating on their own? ...first thing I thought was...a swarm in may is worth a load of hay...hm a swarm in july isn't worth a fly. lol Plus, with a trap out, I wouldn't get the queen, right? I only have one colony that I got in May so I really don't have any spare parts to lend them. How would you all suggest I get them? And what can I do with them if I do get them? Combine them with the ones I got? Being in Montana, it's getting a little late to be messing around...Gonna go take a closer look in a bit
I'd say it's highly unlikely you'll get the queen. In addition trap outs take a long time - from what I've "read". If you do a cut out, be sure to have a solid contract.
If I had the opportunity and the time, I would try it just for the experience. It may cost you a frame of bees or larva from your hive to get them to raise a queen, but if there is enough bees there they could build up rather quickly. Another option would be to tell the building owner that it would be risky to do a trapout this late in the year and that you would be happy to do it in the spring if they make it through the winter.
I think that too, cao. I'm gonna do it just for the experience. There's no way I would do a cut out. I just wanted a simple swarm, not even this, but I think it could be fun. The owner was glad to know about me because he was planning on spraying them soon so I think waiting is not a option. I really don't even know what's there but I'm excited to give it a try. They've only been there a week so maybe they'll be opento a relocation. :smile: I think I'll take a drawn frame and another with some larvae and put some lemongrass oil on a cotton ball. Maybe I can lure out the Queen. Even if I don't get her, I can still try to get them to make a new one which will be a new awesome experience for me too. I just have no clue what I'm doing. lol I'm just gonna go for it. lol
Robo and iddee has instructions on how to do a trapout.
http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=20301.0
Have fun. :happy:
That is a hreat link cao! Thank you!
Well, I did it. We'll see what happens. lol The crack was huge all along the wall but they seemed to be getting in only at the top. I didn't know what else to do so I stuffed all the cracks with newspaper. I wonder if they will just chew through that. Made a funnel but once it was up I realized they can climb right through the grid. arg oh well They look like they're getting out but not back in that way. Not yet anyway. lol There got to be quite a few after a while. I told them they should just get into my box and I'll take 'em to a nice place. Want some candy little girls? lol
Say I do get some or most, would it be better to combine them with mine or take a frame from mine and let them make a queen? ...concerned about it being so late and winter coming. Could they even have a chance to make it here in MT?
http://s284.photobucket.com/user/MTBeeGirl/media/Trap%20Out/image.jpg2_zpsr35mabbd.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
They will chew through the newspaper....needs to be something else like one of those blue spun frame less AC filters or some such......if they chew through newspaper on a hive combine they will chew through it to get past your stuffing job to get back into the hive.
If they have been in there for only a week or so, they don't have much stores or any brood to hold them to the location. If you can caulk the cracks, this will seal it. Make sure the screen is 1/8, or window screen size. Within a few days to a week, they should all come out, including the queen. She will probably lead the "swarm" away thinking that there is no food to be had in the area. Likely not to go into your box.
Earlier this year, I did a trapout on a swarm that had moved in about three days earier. Everybody said they would leave quickly when I seal it off. After a week, I ended up opening the space to get to the colony. They had not built any comb. The bees were sluggish, like they were starving. But they refused to leave. I got them with my beevac, put them in a hive, and fed them. Now they are doing great.
So I say, "most of the time," if you can set up a trapout on a colony that moved in within a week, they should come out of the space within a week.
I thought about that with the newspaper I just didn't have anything else. And I've decided I really don't want to spend too much money on this. Idiot me....I already bought some screen ($16) which I used for the funnel. I went back yesterday to look and turns out the grid is too large and they're squeezing right through. The grid is 1/4", yeah bee space, I have no freakin idea what I was thinking! Lol obviously wasn't! lol Some haven't figured it out and are just flying around the entrance. The owner was with me and said, oh yeah, there's a ton of them now! More than I've seen since they came. Well, what I saw is a couple of hundred bees trying to get in. Plus maybe a hundred or so more in the crack? Idk, not much for sure. I'm going to go to town today and get some window screening, 1/8" , thanks chux! lol, and form that over the existing cone. More $ :/ If I cover the stuffed newspaper with good duct tape, will they chew through that? I'll have to look also but I bet my hubby has some caulk laying around...
You are right, you don't know what you are doing.
This isn't necessarily a bad things because that's how most of us lean-to jumping in and, "going for it". Unfortunately there really is no longer an excuse for ignorance on the subject of trap outs. The Internet will give you the knowledge to do this as if you've done 100. If you approach it with ignorance then you are lazy and haven't done the research.
Look at the "Hogan trap out". It is fool proof and I did a difficult one this year from a tree and got the queen as well as tons of bees. This method will not fail so long as you seal the bees out and provide the proper transition box. This bod basically becomes part of the current hive and the bees will use it as such.
Silicone caulk. Newspaper? Really? You do know that bees can be combined using the newspaper method right? They chew through newspaper like it isn't there so......???
This will be a good lesson. You'll learn to NEVER remove bees for free. Also NEVER believe the folks that say, "They didn't spray the bees". If they bring it up this means the DID spray the bees. Spraying is a stupid way to try and kill bees but most won't admit that.
Good luck.
Live and learn.
Galaxy S4. Slimkat 4.4.2 official.
I'm sure the hogan method is fine. I haven't look into it yet. If you look on the forum for the bee removal page, you will find an excellent step-by-step walk-through for doing a trapout, by iddee. He really knows his stuff. I have used this method successfully a few times now. MT Bee Girl, you are in for a shock when you get the 1/8'' screen. Around here it is as precious as gold...
As for using duct tape...I have used gorilla duct tape on brick to seal a funnel. It worked. Don't use regular duct tape. Get the black gorilla brand. Prepare to double layer it. And keep a watch on it to see if the bees start to chew through. I don't think they could, but better safe than sorry. The big thing is to be very methodical. Go over every inch of the area. Be very sure that there is no crack anywhere near the entrance for at least 10 feet. Be sure you seal everything up with the caulk, tape, or screen. You can do this. Just do the research and give it a go. You might mess up. Even folks that have done it several times will mess something up. It's a learning process and every job is a bit different.
Silicone caulk will work fine. Plain screen will work fine over the 1/4 wire. Screen by itself will collapse and close the exit. No one ever done all things right the first time, so don't get discouraged, and don't pay any attention to the hecklers. Continue marching, and we will help you reach your goal.
As stated above, read my five threads thoroughly, and watch the video,then refer back when needed. Post a question as a reply on any you don't fully grasp. We will be here to help and you can do it.
Hi: I did a cut out a few weeks ago and didn't get the Queen as she was inside the house and owner wouldn't allow me to cut the ceiling out to get the main part of the hive.I brought the bees home and they were awful mean!Stunk me several times and followed me stinging also stung my neighbor in the face close to his eye.
I went to great lengths to save them traveled a long way to get a 40.00 Queen and they killer her right away after I manually released her after 4 days in the frames.
They were nothing but trouble and I am glad they are all dead now.
I have another cut out which I got the queen and they are very gentle bees so are the swarm I got this spring!They queen is a must in my book from now on out!
Thank you iddee. I really appreciate that. I did check out that Hogan method and it seems like the thing to do except. Like I said, I'm not sure how much money I want to spend on a few hundred bees, although there may be more, who knows? I also did read your threads, iddee, and watched the video and that is extremely helpful. I will go tomorrow morning and adjust things and see how it goes. I'm also excited to work with some other bees but they are just as docile as mine so far. Totally a learning thing for me. Good thing I've got a tough skin. :wink: I really appreciate the help! :smile:
Quote from: Blacksheep on July 21, 2015, 08:47:40 PM
Hi: I did a cut out a few weeks ago and didn't get the Queen as she was inside the house and owner wouldn't allow me to cut the ceiling out to get the main part of the hive.I brought the bees home and they were awful mean!Stunk me several times and followed me stinging also stung my neighbor in the face close to his eye.
I went to great lengths to save them traveled a long way to get a 40.00 Queen and they killer her right away after I manually released her after 4 days in the frames.
They were nothing but trouble and I am glad they are all dead now.
I have another cut out which I got the queen and they are very gentle bees so are the swarm I got this spring!They queen is a must in my book from now on out!
That's a bummer! Luckily these are only about 5 minutes away so not too much of an inconvenience. Imma gonna catch me a swarm next year! lol
Challenger; You need to look at your replies before you post. You're talking to folks like they're idiots and it ain't going over well.
quote (in part)
You are right, you don't know what you are doing.
This isn't necessarily a bad things because that's how most of us lean-to jumping in and, "going for it". Unfortunately there really is no longer an excuse for ignorance on the subject of trap outs. The Internet will give you the knowledge to do this as if you've done 100. If you approach it with ignorance then you are lazy and haven't done the research.
Challenger is being banned for 30 days. We don't write to other members in such ways. Hope he understands there are no second chances - next ban will be permanent. Thanks to those reporting him, that is the proper way to handle such issues.
Wow. Thank you. I didn't want to be overly sensitive so I decided just to ignore his mean comments. I know in my heart that the opposite of what he thinks is true. I'm learning every day and reading everything I can. What he thinks has no effect on me. Thank you for acting so swiftly though and not tolerating such put downs. It makes me feel more comfortable knowing that I can get support here rather than being chastised for learning.
Wish I lived near you. I would give you the equipment to do the work and work it with you. True beekeepers are a family in their own. We willing help each other to learn more both for you and us. No one person can have all the answers and do everything right the first time. The day we stop learn and improving is the day they put us in a box.
John
He did say one thing worthwhile, CC Hogans trap out method is easy to build and time tested. I agree, none of us should talk to one another that way. There really was only One perfect person. Good Luck Bee girl. G
Quote from: biggraham610 on July 21, 2015, 11:14:17 PM
There really was only One perfect person. Good Luck Bee girl. G
an' He hung out with a dude that ate wild locusts and
HONEY! I'll take the honey and you can have the wild locusts there, brother... Hang in there, MT Bee Girl!
Quote from: Maggiesdad on July 21, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: biggraham610 on July 21, 2015, 11:14:17 PM
There really was only One perfect person. Good Luck Bee girl. G
an' He hung out with a dude that ate wild locusts and HONEY! I'll take the honey and you can have the wild locusts there, brother... Hang in there, MT Bee Girl!
I have tried chocolate cover locust. Tasted like crunch bars except for the legs could not tell the difference .
:shocked:
John
Quote from: MT Bee Girl on July 21, 2015, 10:53:39 PM
so I decided just to ignore his mean comments.
I'm learning every day and reading everything I can. What he thinks has no effect on me. Thank you for acting so swiftly though and not tolerating such put downs. It makes me feel more comfortable knowing that I can get support here rather than being chastised for learning.
I'm glad you realize that the vast majority of the people who post here are doing it to help a fellow beekeeper. I just started posting recently because I finally feel that I can give a little useful knowledge after having bees for 3 years and reading about them for a couple of years before that. Much of my knowledge has come from mistakes(mine and others) and learning from them. Don't feel too bad if you make mistakes. Hopefully the bees will teach you what they want. I don't know of any beekeeper that knows everything about bees. We all learn everyday. Hopefully you will keep us posted on your progress so we can all learn some more. :wink:
Trap outs are time consuming with spotty success. Only do if close to home because several trips. I fill entrance cracks with steel wool and use a plastic funnel and duct tape. When the bees are thick I vacuum and add to a hive that needs bees. spray caught bees and hive with sugar water/lemon grass oil to cover different bee scent Worked for me. Never caught the queen on trap out. Cutout have better success rate. Swarm season is over on gulf coast. If swarm season is ongoing there put a few swarm traps out. Fun easy way to catch bees. I started with 2 hives this spring I have 34 now. Swarm traps cut outs and splits. I lost a lot o bees by not splitting soon enough and they swarmed. I wanted strong hives. I am learning. Good luck, have fun, bee safe
MT Bee Girl
Our tolerance of how members treat each other is long standing and it is hard to follow every post for the mods - so the report to moderator link is in every post so that members can be the watch dogs as well.
People come here for many reasons, sharing and learning beekeeping knowledge is a place people can take those who are new under their wings and guide them to understanding - NOT a place to be chastised, no matter what the reason. You'll continue to get the info you need here and not have to deal with rude and totally prohibited replies. Best wishes.
Beemaster
Thank you beemaster and everyone! I really wish you were near me too divemaster. I would love some one on one time with another beekeeper. I rally appreciate all of you! Even challenger. You need people in your life to show you how not to behave too.
I really liked your steel wool idea ed, so that's what I did today. I figured that was more economical. I filled all the cracks with it and also taped everything shut really well with my husbands's expensive thick real duct tape. lol (he said I could) :tongue: They definitely weren't going back in when I was done. I saw a couple slip out through the funnel and while I was attaching the box to the ladder, I noticed one worker bee with pollen go into my box. :grin: I definitely feel alot more confident with this set-up and am happy with the amount of bees I saw. Hopefully....
...from 2 to 34, ed? Wow!!! Good for you! ...thanks again everyone!
http://s284.photobucket.com/user/MTBeeGirl/library/Trap%20Out/Trap%20Out%20Fix?sort=3&page=1
One thing you missed on my posts. The entrance to the trap box should be as close to the BASE of the funnel as possible, not the TIP of the funnel. The tip can be anywhere.
Very interesting thread - for many reasons.
Bee Girl - I'm excited to see more women beeks trying new things. I did a swarm and a cut out soon after I started and was happy for the experience, even though I made a lot of mistakes. Cut outs are not my idea of a fun time, but I can do one now. This year I'm trying mating nucs at the advice of some of the members here. Fingers crossed it works. I hope you keep us posted on how the trap out works. It's so interesting to see the different ways to approach the set up, etc.
Moderators - thanks for the clarification that insulting posts should indeed be reported. I feel really bad when I make beek mistakes and I come here for advice and help [and sometimes sympathy]. It's nice to know that friendly and helpful behavior is the expectation here.
I second the notion of swarm traps. During swarming season, that is an excellent and fun way to increase your number of hives. lots of info on it on this and other sites. Basically, talk to a beek to find out when your swarm season begins and ends. Just before it begins, put out a trap. I use an old deep that needs a little patchup work. More experienced beeks will often give you such equipment. Put a plywood top and bottom on the box. Drill an entrance hole. Put some frames it it. Put a little chunk of old comb, or an old dark frame of comb. Add a little lemon grass oil. Hang it in a tree over head high. And wait. It is so fun to go by every week or so and check your traps. And when you see those bees coming in and out as you walk up...Wow, that's fun.
Sorry. I wanted to post sooner but I'm having trouble with my wifi and had to wait for hubby.
I went to fix the exit this morning and all the bees were gone. There were about 3-5 hanging around the outside, a handful in the funnel trying to get out, and 2 bees on the wood near the entrance clinging on for dear life with their butts up in the air. Everybody else is gone. We had a big storm come through last night and I was worried what they would do. Well, they left. I bet the Queen's still in there with a few attendants, right? What do I do now with her and the rest? How can I get her out? Not even necessarily to catch her but just so the guy can seal the hole?
Did they leave because of the storm or what happened, you guys think? ...here's what I think, I f*ed around too long to get it right with them being able to get through the funnel at first. Then the storm and the end of the funnel not touching the board...bees doing what they want...maybe if I would have got it right when the weather was still nice I could have gotten them...lesson learned...do it right the first time. What do you guys think happened?
Chux, that sounds awesome and am definitely planning on setting swarm traps next year. Been reading about beelining too which could be fun. Rurification, good for you for doing cut outs! I would attempt that too if someone would show me how first though. Good luck on your nucs!
I would say you did all you could. If they were there only a few days, they ran out of food, the queen left, and the bees followed. They would have went, storm or no storm. If someone had seen them go, you might could have gotten the whole hive.
Who knows, you may get a call in a day or two when the owner of their new home finds them.
Finally got my wifi fixed. Man that was bad timing.
Do you really think so, iddee? I really hope that the queen got away with them all. I'm worried that I created a queenless colony and a small handful of queenright bees that will surely die now. I went and looked this morning and was planning to take my equipment away and let the few stragglers out but the owner was there and he told me that late afternoon yesterday, there were a lot of bees back again. (I've learned though that his "a lot of" is different from mine lol) I decided to leave everything as is because I don't want them to all go back into the crack if it's open again. Right? Wrong? I've read somewhere that bees have a 3 day memory? so I figure I'll go check after the weekend...
I want to say thank you all again for your help, support, and kind words. I really didn't mean for this to turn into someone getting banned. And I also just realized I should have posted this in the honeybee removal section. Sorry about that. :embarassed:
It's also a learning thing, so it'll be okay.
That is why I like to vacuum them up. At least you get something. I have gotten several pounds to add to hive or start new one.
What you see there now could be foragers who were out in the field when the colony left the other day. Last year I had a good-size swarm move into a nuc swarm trap I set up. I decided to leave them up the tree for a few days to build some comb and start laying. When I came back, they had decided the space was too small, and left. There was a ball of bees in the hive about as big as my fist. They were in the field when the rest left. They came home to an empty house. Had no idea where to go, so stuck around. That is likely what happened with you.
Thanks for the info guys. The whole thing seems a bit anti-climatic to me. lol I'm going to learn how to do the vacuuming. It just seems like it would hurt them. lol How much wind/suction can a little bee take? lol I feel bad for those stragglers but c'est la vie I guess.