My hives are only a month old and i have just noticed SHB, does anyone use apithor traps? I have noticed about 5-10 in each hive killed what i could get too but want to act fast to kill them. Any help would be great?
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Yep I have them and use them when needed.
Place them ontop of the brood frames.
Apithor works really well for me.
Putting them on top of the frames is contrary to the manufacturers instructions.
If moisture entered the hive and ran through the trap You may kill your bees and/or end up with Fiprinol residue in your honey.
"With a hive tool, paint scraper or similar implement remove wax and debris from a sufficient area of the bottom board to accommodate the harbourage. Place harbourage, flat surface down, on the bottom board with the slot ends aligned away from the hive entrance.
The harbourage must sit flat on the bottom board such that beetles cannot shelter underneath. In hives with corrugated or distorted bottom boards apply a thin bead of silicone sealant to the outer edge of the underside of the harbourage and press down firmly onto the bottom board. Unless stuck to the bottom board a thin wire may be attached to the harbourage to facilitate later removal from the hive via the hive entrance thus removing the need to open the hive. Monitor harbourages for damage or for 'waxing up' of the slot entrances. Replace if damaged or when effectiveness declines. Remove harbourages when control has been established or after 3 months."
"NOT TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE, OR IN ANY MANNER, CONTRARY TO THIS LABEL UNLESS AUTHORISED UNDER APPROPRIATE LEGISLATION."
Place a vinyl mat on top of the frames and put the Aphithor trap on top of that. If you place it on the bottom board and you get some rain in there you will also end up killing the bees. I have found that an oil trap in the bottom board gives superior results to the Apithor.
The bad advice on this forum never ceases to amaze me.
Yep don't put them on the bottom board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!rain,moisture etc I learnt that.
On top of the Brood frames only.
More bad advice.
Quote from: Anybrew2 on December 25, 2015, 11:25:06 PM
Yep I have them and use them when needed.
Place them ontop of the brood frames.
When the research was carried out they were found to be most effective when placed on the bottom board. However I believe a number of beekeepers (including commercial beeks) lost there hives altogether when water came in through the entrance and wet the apithor.
From two commercial beeks that I have spoken too recently One was placing them on top of the super and the other was putting them on top of the brood frames.
You can take it as bad or good advice, I will not change the way I use them.
Kev
Why would you place your hives in a position where water is running over the bottom boards. Commercial beeks are also pumping cockroach poison into corflute and throwing that into hives. Knock yourself out. The Australian section of this forum embarrasses me at times.
Ok now im a bit worried about having poison with my bees. I was told commercial beekeepers were also using scrunched up chux wipes and the beetles get stuck in them and die. What other successful options have people used? Might use the apithor as last resort.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Quote from: yantabulla on December 26, 2015, 06:50:14 AM
Commercial beeks are also pumping cockroach poison into corflute and throwing that into hives.
They are not the only ones using this method, there is a lot of amateur beekeepers doing the same,(not saying I agree with it)
Quote from: yantabulla on December 26, 2015, 06:50:14 AM
Why would you place your hives in a position where water is running over the bottom boards.
Common sense would dictate that you would not place them in such a position but I believe the water came from above (torrential rain).
Kev
Quote from: yantabulla on December 26, 2015, 06:50:14 AM
Why would you place your hives in a position where water is running over the bottom boards. Commercial beeks are also pumping cockroach poison into corflute and throwing that into hives. Knock yourself out. The Australian section of this forum embarrasses me at times.
Maybe it doesn't rain where you are, but heavy rain with strong wind can result in some water in the hive and if it comes into contact with the trap you will poison the bees. Up to you to decide if you want your bees to come into contact with fipronil.
Quote from: Sydney guy on December 26, 2015, 06:56:43 AM
Ok now im a bit worried about having poison with my bees. I was told commercial beekeepers were also using scrunched up chux wipes and the beetles get stuck in them and die. What other successful options have people used? Might use the apithor as last resort.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
The coreflute blokes use something called "Max force"which is Fibronil, the same as in Apithor.
Of course most of us would get rain inside a hive from time to time and yes, the Apithor will get wet and yes, the bees won't like it and no, I would not eat the honey.
I use traps with DE and while i do get an occasional Slime-out most of the time all is OK and the bees survive.
Keep your hives strong and -in my opinion- stay off poisons.
Checked my hive again today and to try the chux wipes. There seemed to be alot more beetles around. I squashed the ones i could get too. I'm really worried i havent got a trap as yet nothing is open
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
I use Apithor on the bottom boards.
Hey sydney guy. Here's some advice, take a look at the post "what has shb done to our feral bees". It's in this down under part of bee master a few post down from here. It's a control method that is free and safe. Try it if it works for you its "good advice". Either way it would be good to hear any feedback.
Good luck.
I wiped out a hive with friprinol - never again!! Big air vents in the lid - lets in plenty of light and drive the SHB down for the bees to take care of - also dropped the numbers dramatically when I stopped using mats on the top of the frames to stop burr comb in the lid. Oil traps under the bottom board with gutterguard mesh covers and rack lawn grub killer into the soil under and around the hive (water in well)
Only see 1 or 2 now - most times nil.
Working on a combination of ideas to be more targeted as well - will post pictures when completed
Just wanted to give an update on the SHB in my hives. I used a metal trap that sits on top of the frames in one hive on Saturday 26th, on Sunday 27th I put 2 chux super wipes in at lunch time. Just checked them an hour ago the trap had 3 dead beetles, the chuxs in the same hive had about 15 in it hidding which i killed this seemed to be the most active hive for the shb and i also squashed another 10 in the hive this hive is the weakest out of the 2. The other hive had about 10 in the chux which I also killed and maybe another 5 in the hive that I also squashed. Both hives are about 2 months old so not very strong the weakest hive is being fed syrup to help out with the drawing of the comb. Still has 2 frames to draw out. Give another update soon.
Im also looking into the earwigs
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
You guys really thing that putting insecticides in a bee hive is a good idea?
How do you manage them Michael? Poison would be my last resort.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Quote from: Michael Bush on December 29, 2015, 11:37:35 AM
You guys really thing that putting insecticides in a bee hive is a good idea?
No, but maybe temporarily, and here's the context. Where I keep bees, SHB were a like a plague. We have the perfect storm of warm weather and high rainfall and humidity. We have the second highest rainfall in the state, with an annual mean rainfall of around 2330mm. There are organic orchards nearby which harbor the SHB in rotting fruit. For several years, the SHB destroyed 80% of the colonies in the area. We also lost the majority of the hives, and weren't left with many.
I took over management of the bees from a family member as the SHB came to my area, and tried non-chemical management for a number of years. I tried oil trays under the hives, I tried sealing every crack available in the hives, I tried DE and lime and vinegar in the traps, I tried entrance reducers, putting hives in full sun, only keeping large population hives, I tried chux wipes, I tried various plastic traps from beekeeping suppliers.
After some years of this, and losing most of the hives, I decided to try the 'conventional' method of control, build the number of colonies back up, and eventually develop a non-chemical management when I have enough hives to experiment with.
Your mileage may vary.
>How do you manage them Michael?
I don't. For whatever reason (low humidity, bitter cold winters, clay soil) they don't thrive here. But places where they do I know a lot of people who just try to keep strong hives (read: good density of bees) and have no issues. What I would NOT do is put insecticide in my bee hive...
Hey Culley your organic farmers cant be very serious as organic control in orchards requires collection of fallen fruit on a daily basis to prevent pests breeding. Here is a rough diagram of the new bottom board I am building based on a couple of designs that showed me what was working and not working and where to modify to produce this.
Theory is SHB mainly enter late afternoon The guard bees harass but don't prevent all SHB getting in - the SHB duck for cover under the aluminum strip near the entrance and fall through the slit into the trap. ( this solves the problem of returning bees scraping pollen off on a mesh covered trap) Those SHB that make it in head for dark places and all the time are chased by bees and end up at the back end and will at some point fall down or end up on the bottom board half of which is metal mesh (gutterguard ) covered hole over an oil trap. I use shallow baking trays for traps and run my bottom board cleats front to back with top inside edges rebated to take lip of the tray. I then fasten the cleats to the board at the right distance for the tray - trays are removed to the rear.
A
Quote from: Michael Bush on December 30, 2015, 04:43:28 PM
>How do you manage them Michael?
I don't. For whatever reason (low humidity, bitter cold winters, clay soil) they don't thrive here. But places where they do I know a lot of people who just try to keep strong hives (read: good density of bees) and have no issues. What I would NOT do is put insecticide in my bee hive...
Michael,
SHB do not survive in your area because they cannot survive a freeze during any part of there life cycle. The only ones that survive during the winter are the ones in your hives.
Down here the ground almost never freezes, and never does 4" below the surface where the larva molt.
You probably do not have much rotting fruit which is there alternate to a hive for laying their eggs.
Jim
Quote from: Sydney guy on December 29, 2015, 08:14:44 PM
How do you manage them Michael? Poison would be my last resort.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
I don't think Michael has to deal with SHB but I agree with his sentiment
I generally stay out of discussions because while we have SHB (and I've seen a few) they are not a problem here, and it's not anything I'm doing. They aren't a problem for anyone I know. Other than being more careful when harvesting (not letting things sit around) I don't do anything. But if I lived where they were a problem, insecticides would not be my solution...
My self imposed break from this forum has been very therapeutic.
I respect everyone's decision whether or not to use treatments like Apithor in their hives.
I have used it since it was available as per the instructions and I have never had a hive slimed. My hives are level from side to side and sloping to the front.
When I want to change the trap I put a fresh bottom board in with the new Apithor trap attached.
I would rather have any moisture from the traps running out the bottom board than over the tops or the sides of frames.
I cannot be bothered stuffing around with chux cloths, oil traps, DE, fishing tackle boxes and all the other SHB thought bubbles.
My hives are situated in SHB central, the mid north coast of NSW.
Advising others to use it in contravention of the manufacturers instructions is stupid and irresponsible.
https://www.apithor.com.au/how_to_use_apithor.html
Bad advice.
Yantabulla, how often do you change them?
Have you had much trouble with bees propolising the gaps closed?
I have put fresh ones in most of my hives in the last month or two. It cools down at my location (Nana Glen) over the winter and beetles are not active as the temperature is below what is required for egg hatching so I wouldn't put new ones in until the start of August.
Manufacturers recommendations is every 3 months.
They will block them up if you leave them in over winter but not if you replace them twice over the summer months.
I have cleaned the propolis off and re-used them. They seem to be good for between 12-24 months for me. My hives are near Nimbin so similar climate to you yantabulla. Very high rainfall and good conditions for SHB.
Culley the recommended time is three months. You can get a way with longer over the colder months in our area. Two years is well beyond the capability of the product.
https://www.apithor.com.au/how_to_use_apithor.html
Hi just thought I would share an update with my progress of fighting the SHB. I checked my hives on the 10/1/16 and the number of SHB were very high and the Chux trapped about 40 in each hive. I was happy with the Chux but still the numbers seem to be increasing to fast so I installed the apithor traps. I checked the hives again today and to my surprise there was not a single SHB. I looked everywhere to try find one but nothing. Sad I had to use the Apithor but very happy with the results.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
I received two nucs in November, and they had outgrown their 5 frame nuc boxes so were put in full 10 frame deeps. When transferring them out of the suppliers boxes and into ours there were so many beetles I was really worried about how they'd go. I got one of the plastic traps with oil to hang off the top bars of the frame, and I also got an Apithor trap for each hive.
On the next inspection I didn't see a single beetle, and there was only about 5 in the frame traps - maybe pesticides can be bad in beehives, but for me the Apithor trap was nothing short of excellent!
(Now that both hives are really full and strong I have removed the Apithor trap)
Just another push for people to try integrated pest management of there hives with the use of Labidura truncata (brown earwig).
I've been through 300 hives this week and have seen only about a dozen small hive beetle. I think it's time we reloaded our hives with earwig.
I would if I could. :grin:
I think Uncle Sam would bee very upset if I brought some into the states. :grin:
I do see a lot of the black ones in the STB's and SBB's. I have stopped killing them. I hope they also eat the SHB.
Jim
Place hives in Full sun always, salt around the perimeter of the colonies, quick inspections or try fewer as the beetles run and hide when disturbed, SBB and mineral oil in a tray(best), window screen wedged into front entrance to get full ventilation and leave only enough opening to not slow the bees coming and going, extract only only what you can finish in a 24hr period so no eggs will hatch, no use of inner covers, traps set out around apiary and freeze them every night, always mash and kill as many as you can when you see them.
This certainly applies to all nucs and newly established hives and expect them also in packages.
If you have ever have been slimed once, your hatred for them will grow. Mites are so much easier to deal with. And no one even mentions wax moths any longer since Zentari came about.
Is there any truth to rumours that running chickens in under and around the hives stops the larvae in the ground? It works for a couple of vegetable pests I have (like pearslug), and I've heard of people doing it but don't know the success rate.
Makes sense. Our chooks love wax moth larvae, I didn't put bay leaf in a few stacks of stored combs this year, so when I got to them this summer they were full of moth and larvae. Bad or lazy beekeeping on my behalf, but the chooks sure did benefit.
Don't know about our chooks getting the lava even though they have the run of the place. The lava are supposed to burrow down 9" to pupate at the right temperature so the chooks will miss a lot - they don't dig that deep.
The only chemical I use near the hive is lawn grub killer (cockchafer) available from garden places. Sprinkle around the hive - mainly under the entrance and out a bit - water well in or do when raining - that way it dissolves into the soil and wont affect the bees if they land on it. I do it every six months and it helps break the life cycle by killing grubs going in and any beetles coming out of the ground.
Hi all, I am new to beekeeping, and have spoken to lots of guys both pro and hobby. Yep it seems weird to put poison in a hive and that's why its important to be impeccable with your hive management. Keep strong hives, in the sun, and have a management program, what I worked out from almost everyone I spoke with, is no management will get you dead hives!
I am trialling the Blue bottom board, although I don't like that it does not kill the beetle, they get hunted out and move on. The theory is that the conditions don't suit the beetle re humidity so they wont stay anyway. Some are putting a tray under with Diamathius earth but this then defeats the ventilation factor. I have been told by guys that use them that there are no beetles in hive with blue bees bottom board. I am trialling it just to see for myself.
I use the Apithor trap, on the bottom boards as designed and have no problem. but at $7 bucks a throw, and it lasts only 3 months max, I am also trialling the other mentioned method of 5mm core flute with the gel in the centre. As someone else said, level hive left to right with slight tilt toward the entrance is how I set my hives up any way, just to deal with water, poison or not, but its my opinion that card board soaked in poison is more likely to have a water flow containing poison over a gel in the centre line of a 100mm trap.
Somewhere else on the forum here I saw the olive oil mentioned and he said he had killed beetles by the tons, that I like, because you can see the result, but its a mess when your moving hives, if I could get that one perfected I would be doing that as well.
As said, I have little experience but I do listen to everyone and take what makes sense to me.
I love these posts that start with "I'm new to beekeeping, but"..........
I am getting Apithor for $5.80 per trap from the manufacturer. It is more expensive for smaller lots. Most people I know are selling honey for $7.00 to $12.00 per kilo. So for less than the cost of two to three kilos of honey I can control SHB safely and very effectively. I don't see the cost as a big problem considering I have no beetles and none of the upkeep that some of the other methods require.
The use of home made beetle traps using cockroach bait is illegal. You would be contravening most of the pesticide related acts in whatever state you are in.
https://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/pesticides/pestmmngngNSW.htm
Admitting to illegal use of pesticides on a public forum is not wise and it harms the reputation of beekeepers who comply with legislation.
The recent publicity involving Australian honey & pyrrolizidine alkaloids would have been pretty damaging to the honey industry.
Can you imagine a headline like "Australian Honey Contains Cockroach Poison"?
Please stop using unapproved chemical methods to control pests and diseases in your hives.
I think I need another break from this forum. :rolleyes:
Thanks Yanta, some good points there.
Love your work yantabulla, keep it up.
I watched an expert speak of SHB a number of years back, and he stated that there was no evidence backing the chicken claim. Hardly conclusive information, but it's what I heard.
I've been managing to keep beetles under control without resorting to insecticides, I don't like the idea of putting poison anywhere near my bees.
I'm just a hobbyist and my methods probably wouldn't scale up too well but I'll tell you what methods I use and hopefully someone will find it useful.
In my opinion building an oil trap into the bottom board is the best solution. I also find the oil traps that are placed between the frames/on the top bars extremely effective but take a lot more effort to keep them functioning. I've used the "better beetle blasters", "AJ's Beetle Eaters", "Silver Bullets" and "Beetle Jails". They all work well, but to reuse the "better Beetle Blasters" once they fill up with beetles you have to hose them out, and "AJ's Beetle Eaters" sometimes fall apart when you're trying to remove them. I'm not a fan of the "silver bullet" traps since they are top heavy and tend to tip over and leak everywhere whenever you bump the box, so the "beetle jails" and "Better Beetle Blasters"(despite the difficulty in cleaning) are my favourites. I prefer vegetable oil over diatomaceious earth since it's less of a problem if you do spill some, DE spreads out everywhere while oil just goes straight down where you can mop it up, spilling either is a very bad idea though.
Oil traps seem to become a LOT more effective once you have a few dead beetles in there, so it's a good idea not to clean them too thoroughly. You can also put the traps in empty and fill them with a large syringe(without a needle on the end), this reduces the chance of spilling oil. I like to use at least one trap for every 2 boxes and I find that they fill up completely pretty quickly, so need to be checked often, but it gives me a reason to check on my bees, so it's not a problem for me. I just empty them or swap them out when I do my swarm inspections.
I also find felt type hanging mats and chux cloths are effective but they kill a few bees as well as the beetles, it's a good trade off though, there's often 30+ beetles for every bee stuck in the trap, I wouldn't put them in the brood box though, just in case the queen goes exploring. I hate the DE traps that sit on the bottom board, they just provide moth larvae with a place to hang out, but some people have good success with them so they might be worth a go.
So there are a bunch of options available that don't require putting insect poison into an insect colony and hoping that things don't go sideways, but that's always an option if you want to take the(albeit small) risk. Insecticide based traps work well for a lot of people and are generally considered safe so long as you use commercially available traps rather than making your own.
Great review of beetle control Tommo.
My thoughts exactly Tommo, I just use a couple of AJ beetle traps or beetle jails and that seems to keep them under control. Using any sort of pesticide against the manufactures directions is foolish and dangerous, lets not forget we are making food here.
Good summary Tommo . I would just add that if you have lots of ventilation and light (big air vents) in the lid the beetle will hid in the frames away from the light and the bees will be onto them and drive them down. The beetle will seek out the darkest corner which is the back of the hive on the bottom board. That's the best place for a bottom board trap. If you work with the natural activity of the beetle you can have more effective control so with that reasoning top located traps are the less effective. The reason you find beetle in the lid is realitivly dark with small vents and low numbers of bees so the beetle breed with minimal disruption. You have to force them out of the lid and let the bees help you drive them to the trap.
Good point Wombat, but I have large vents in my lids - turns out the bees decided they were better off with propolis closing them up.