Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

Hi - -

Newbee, here.  New to the forum, and new to beekeeping, so lots to learn - - - having fun doing it!

First hive started with a few bees, a little brood, and a little honey, quickly blossomed!  Now have three or four frames of capped brood, a little bit of capped honey, a little uncapped honeycomb, and several thousand bees.   

The queen was of 'unknown origin', but I expect she ran with a bad crowd for awhile.  After about 4 weeks, her daughters turned mean - - and got meaner when a violent storm passed through. 
When they chased my dog into the car, good producer or not, I decided to re-queen and after 30 or 40 phone calls, found a couple of Italian queens.  I gave one to a buddy in the same predicament, and requeened my hive on Thursday, 3/24.

Things are calming down around the hive.  I checked to make sure she was released on Monday, 3/28 - - she had.  Too many bees to find her easily and I figured the hive had seen enough trauma for awhile.  I will check for new brood in a week or so - - -

Question:  The bees seemed calmer after three days with the new queen.  Is that correct, or wishful thinking on my part?  It would seem the old-queen's live bees and brood would keep their nasty ways until they were replaced - - or at least diluted - - by the Italian Queen's offspring, but maybe the 'ok, let's just calm-down, girls' influence of the new queen is felt more immediately. 

Thoughts and comments welcome - -

Many report that eliminating the "mean" queen can have an  immediately noticeable positive result.

>Question:  The bees seemed calmer after three days with the new queen.  Is that correct, or wishful thinking on my part?

I have often seen that.  But sometimes it takes six weeks...

>  It would seem the old-queen's live bees and brood would keep their nasty ways until they were replaced - - or at least diluted - - by the Italian Queen's offspring, but maybe the 'ok, let's just calm-down, girls' influence of the new queen is felt more immediately. 

It appears that the new queen has the pheromones to keep everyone contented and the old queen did not.  I wonder if the genetic portion of the equation is how they respond to a failing queen...

Interesting - we requeened for the same reason (though they weren't quite as aggressive as yours seemed) and 3 weeks later they were still on the pissy side, buzzing around head sand bumping of veils. Will continue to wait and see if they get sorted out. Maybe the queen is also a nasty thing?

Thanks for the feedback.

A curious thing - - -

When I checked for the queen release on 3/28 I was expecting (and prepared for) some of the hostility I experienced when I put her in the hive 4 days earlier.  During the previous hive opening 15 or 20 bees 'chased' me back to my back door, about 20 yards and around the corner from the hive.  So I was watching for a parade of angry bees to follow me when I left the hive - - - and - -

I had one who followed me - - casually - - at my unhurried pace.  She planted herself about 7 inches from my veil, right in line with my eyes, and maintained that position without attacking or leaving - - .  If I brushed her away, she side-stepped and returned.  I sat at a patio table, and she stayed for several minutes, as peaceful as could be - - - and what?  Curious??

No doubt common to experienced beekeepers, but it is all new (and fascinating) to me.  From reading the posts, I see these critters are full of surprises - -

I've got no doubt from your description the queen was hot so requeening was smart on your part.  Some aggression can be created by other things too though.  If there's a storm coming in, if there's little food available, or if something is messing with them too much (humans included), not using smoke or using too much.  Having a nasty queen seems to exacerbate these things.

I had 2 hives last year that were on me like an African hive. I was covered in bees. after I snuffed the 1st queen I walked thru brush for 30 minutes & never did get away from all the attackers & took a lot of stings when I came out of my suit. there were at least 1000 stingers in my gloves & sleeves. 2 weeks later when I opened the 2nd hot hive same thing. but this time there were bees inside my veil. I had not zipped up all the way-DOH!!!! coming out of a suit that is covered with angry bees was not fun. dropped the suit & got in the house & fought it out with 100 or so bees. put on my other suit & went back, snuffed the queen & installed a frame with eggs from another hive. both of these queens came from swarm cells from a gentle queen. what i'm guessing is that they mated with drones with partial african traits. a local association does a group buy of several hundred nucs from Louisiana every year. some of those hives have been really aggressive. since requeening both of these hives have bee calm as can be.

CliveHive
You mentioned that the girls got more aggressive when a storm passed through.
I have to tell you but even the most gentle bees get angry off when you are messing with them and it has or is just about to storm.
I have been around numerous hives that are like Jekyl & Hyde when a storm is coming in a couple hours. On calm warm sunny days they welcome you into hive inspections with little or no smoke.
Good luck with the new queen.

Once again - - Many thanks for the feedback.  I am probably overthinking the process - - but when you are new - - - .

I am 'suiting-up' whenever I have anything to do near the hive - - - The clothesline is about 15 feet from it, and I have a small garden that needs to be weeded about 25' in the other direction - - .  I have been getting one or two 'bumps' in the veil when I get close - - - and then they will either quit, or go off and come back with 3 or four reinforcements.

I am thinking there may be some residue from the old queens bees and brood, but it is much better than it was - - - .  Thanks for the feedback on storms, as well.  I will make sure to take note of weather conditions as I chart the hive's progress - - .

Lots of bees in-and-out of the hive on this nice sunny, cool day.  Lots of yellow lumps on their legs - - .  My next hive check is scheduled for April 7 - - - sure hope I see some fresh brood - - and maybe a little honey, too!

Stupid question from me.  Do you use a smoker?

Sure.  I use a smoker when I open the hive, but not when I'm just looking, or working near the hive - - say at least 10 or 15 feet away from it - - - .  That is the right way to do it - - no??
I suit-up because I still get veil-bombed a couple of times whenever I am within 20 feet of the entrance - - .

I hadn't seen the hive after the sun went down, so I decided to grab a flashlight, and go have a look. 
There was a tight cluster about half the size of my fist slowly and peacefully milling around the entrance
hole outside the hive - - I would guess 50 or 60 bees.  Any idea what that means?  Is that 'overflow" from a hive full of bees? 
It is a cool night - - probably 75 degreesF.  Are they clustering for warmth?

LOL...cool night and 75 degrees are something only we deep southerners would consider putting in the same sentence.

On my two Boomers I had a huge number of bees on the face of one hive and an honest to god beard on the other this AM pre dawn. It was a low of 76 but super high humidity. I think they come out on the board and the front of the hive to ease congestion inside and facilitate better air flow for temp/humidity regulation. I run screen bottom boards but had sticky boards to check mites in overnight so they were more closed up than normal hence the beard and population outside.

Spent a year or so in Key West when torpedoman's school was there, so there is no doubt in my mind Keys bees are more laid-back!  (They couldn't help but be!)

Thanks!  and yes, I think it had to do with temp regulation - - It got cold last night - - down around 60 - - time to get closer to the equator!
I am going to start checking the hive after the sun goes down and keeping a log.  I think my bees might be pretty good weathermen - - er- - - weather girls - -
er - - weather things - - -

yantabulla - that's not a stupid question. Lots of times the answer would have been "yes".

Clivehive, I saw a you tube video about a stinger barb being removed from someone's eyeball. It'll make you look at suited up in a hole different positive light.

By way of a progress report on my 'mean hive' - -

Four days after re-queening, I could approach the hive with only the occasional 'dive-bomb'.  When I did get buzzed,
the attacker was usually joined by three or four buddies to help get rid of me - - -

During the next three or four days, I was attacked by a single bee after I had been near the hive for more than 5 or 10 minutes.
Usually that was followed by two or three more. 

During the next few days, it took longer to attract attention, the bees were less aggressive, and fewer showed up to 'chase' me.

It has been 15 days since re-queening, and I can be within 3 meters of the hive - - as long as I leave a clear path to the entrance -
without being attacked.  Reading through other posts, and doing a little research, I think - - 1.  The new queen had an immediate calming influence on the hive.
2.  Aggression further declined as new guard bees were posted - - - ones that didn't have the same alarm triggers to me or my scent. 3.  As the new queen
took over the daily operations of the hive - - - producing brood, and becoming the communications nucleus,   emerging workers from the old queen were more
greatly influenced by the new queen than the genetic profile of the old queen - - -

So I am making peace with the hive.  Another couple of weeks, and I might try being around it without gloves - - - but trust is something less than 100%  :)

Nope.  Not quite yet - -

17 days since re-queening, and I really did think the hive had gotten out of its' evil ways - - -

The good news, is there was a frame and a half of wet brood, so the new queen is cranking-out bees to beat-the-band - - also lots of pollen & honey.
Hive is in high gear, and doing just fine - - - a couple mostly empty frames, and a couple more just being drawn out - -

I have noticed a lot of activity around the entrace during the last week, both foragers returning with full pollen satchels, and random 'up-and-
down, in-and-out flights, which I took to be the last of the old queens brood doing their 'orientation' flight(s). 

The bad news is the bees were still pretty nasty when I opened the hive, although they had let me near it without any problems for the previous week.
So I'm not sure if I caught them on a bad day, didn't smoke them enough, or if it is just the genetic leftovers from the old queen.  I'm hoping it is the last of
the old queen's brood, and that in another couple of weeks I'll have one of theose 'calm hives' I keep hearing about - - -

Clive I just noticed where your location is....not sure if you are a member of the JP The Beeman group on Facebook but there are quite a few members on there from south Texas and several from Corpus in particular...if you wanted local help and advice it might be worth your while to join up and look for Dennis Gray...hes very experienced and based out of Corpus.

Thanks Jeff.  Will do.

In the mean time - - -

As I mentioned in my last post, the hive was pretty angry during inspection on Sunday.  Yesterday (Monday) I had two or three chasing me around maybe 20 yards from the hive, but then I got reports from a couple of neighbors - - - seems the lady over the back fence had been attacked by two, and the yard man from their nex-door neighbor got attacked and stung a couple of times by three or four - - - .
One neighbor told another neighbor, (and the report escalated to 'appears to have been attsacked by a swarm' so now I have three to deal neighbors with - - one of which is friendly and working with me - - - I have given him a 5 May date for everything bad to 'clear-out' (6 weeks after re-queen) and he is agreeable to a 'wait and see' until then. 

I have to deal with the other two today - - - and I expect more drama from those two - - .  What I don't want to do is make promises I can't keep.  I have re-queened with an Italian queen, bred in Florida, and distributed by BeeWeaver, here in Texas.  she is producing brood to beat-the-band, so I am expecting a more-or-less population turn-over pretty much on the 6-week schedule - - ie, May 5.  My concern is that I am still getting these un-provoked attacks.  Brood from the new queen (assuming she started dropping eggs as soon as she was placed in the hive) should be active in the next couple of days - - -

So  - - your suggestions on 'where am I'?  Very close to 'out of the woods'?  My alternatives are pretty drastic - - I could move the hive maybe 20' farther away from the neighbor's fence - - but I am afraid of initiating a swarm - - - and will (for sure) plead my case to the two most recent neighbors to raise concerns.  My nightmare is that I have replaced one mean queen with a second mean queen - - -
By the way - - there is no doubt my hive is causing the problems - - - I have lived here 15 years, and there has never been a problem before - - - I own this one - - and (one way or the other) have to get it fixed. 

All suggestions welcome - - -

Just a random thought, if you know someone who lives in the country maybe move the hive there for about a month.

Yah public relations are key when keeping in a suburban environment.....I am with GSF it might be time to move em for a month to let the genetics work themselves out.

Clive,
Time to take a trip to your farm and let them cool down there. I have one neighbor who out right threatened to kill me if his wife got stung, when I told him I was planning on getting bees.
I normally about 10 or more hives and they have never had a problem in the last 6 years.
Jim

Well - - no choice - - the hive has to go.  I gave it a good shot, but Mrs. is mid-70's & Mr. is 80 and walks with a walker.  Neither one has changed their mind since grade school - -   They saw their lawn-man getting hit, and it scared the stuffing out of them - - - one step short of hysteria - - - just not worth it - - .  I did pretty well on the phone - - I was out of town, or it would have been face-to-face, and that might not have worked-out too well - - - but the forth time Mrs told me it was illegal to have a hive within the city limits (when I knew it was legal to have up to two) I understood fact and logic were not going to win this one - - -

So the hive will move to the farm, and visits will be once or twice/month - - . 

I really feel bad about it - - the old queen's bees should be all hatched-out and starting to die-off - - - but - - -

Anyway, I don't have a pick-up, but do have a Sequoia (Toyota's answer to a Suburban) - - Is there a net bag available to go around the hive for transport inside a vehicle??
Any idea where to get one?  Just one brood hive to cover - - -

Clive there is a net that you can buy. I only know this because I had a customer come and put their new hive in one and they put it in their suburban. I would not have sold the hive to them with out it. They drove  over 3 hour of to get here.  I do not know where they bought it.
Time to build an observation hive. That way it is in your house, out of neighbors eyes but you can watch it all you want. You really learn a lot about bees with one of these.
Jim

Clive....whats the visibility of where the hives were? Move the old hive to the farm...test the temperament... give it a few months or till next spring and then sneak in a NUC or 2 of good tempered bees in a place hidden from casual view. I had bees in my back yard 5 " from a 6' privacy fence for 10 months before my neighbor found out....and only then because I brought him in the back yard to let him borrow a tool out of the garage.

If the flight path and exit path takes the girls out and up and they are 10' or so before they cross your property line NO ONE will ever know unless you get sloppy and let them swarm ;-)

Thanks KL - - They are behind a 6' fence now, and nobody would have known if they hadn't gone next door to buzz the lawn man - - - didn't like his weed-eater, and let him know about it!

No, I gave my word they would be gone, so I will move them - - .  I'm close enough to farm land I expect to find a cotton or sorghum field that a farmer will be happy to have pollinated - - - My German short-hair pointer needs a 2-mile run every day, so I am out in those fields on a daily basis - - .  I'll look for a spot 4 or 5 miles from here and see if I can out-live the &*&%$.  Still planning to put one at the farm.

City of Corpus Christi Pest Control was by this afternoon.  Seems they had received an "anonomous' call that there were bees behind the fence that separates our properties - - - .  I asked what time the call had come in - - if it had been after I had talked with them and agreed to move the hive, they would have had a look at MY ugly side - - - but they made the call before I got hold of them, so they got a 'pass'.  Life is hard enough when you're old - - being stupid doesn't make it any easier - - -

I printed out the city ordinance for the guy who showed-up, gave him a short tutorial on the lifecycle of bees, and explained what I had done.  He was nice as could be - - a little embarassed to have bothered me, so I don't expect any trouble from that direction - -

Sure is a lot more exciting than collecting stamps!

Thanks, Jim - -

My bee guy solved the problem for me by suggesting one of those cooler/luggage carriers that fit into your trailer hitch - -
Perfect size for two hives, side by side, with plenty of places to secure tie-down straps - - aluminum (no-rust) 500# capacity
and on sale this week at Harbor Freight Tools for $80 - - Yee Ha!

Clive,
I was on the road today and saw one on the back of a suburban and was going to mention it. I have one at the farm. I picked it up at a yard sale for $15.00, I could not turn it down, but have not had the need for it yet.

Jim

Hey, Jim -

Looks like the perfect fit - - but in my dreams it is a flatbed full of hives on pallets that I load with a forklift - - :) - - Just a little pipe-dream.
Not anything I plan to actually DO

BTW - - looks like a happy ending - - - kind of a trashy place, owned by a friendly fellow who moves houses for a living - - - his 'street' of
old buildings, junk trucks and other assorted junk, is about a quarter mile long, and ends with a small river that runs along the north side - - -
It is surrounded by several hundred acres of cotton and sorghum fields - - - .  Possible problem when cotton fields are sprayed with pesticides?? 
I will check with my local beekeeper club(s) - - they should know, but it is not common to see hives along the fields

He thinks that might be a good place to put a hive - - - I think so too - - :)  We'll see - - -

Sounds like things are working out for you Clive.
Jim

Many thanks for sharing your knowledge and patience - -

I feel like living through "mean-queen" is a right-of-passage, and since everything appears to have worked-out well I would like some course correction if I am heading down the wrong road now.  Good advice on the front-end is so much easier to implement than repairing messes later.  - - - Here is what I am thinking - -

On April 10 inspection , my first 10-frame deep brood box has a 3 week old Italian queen, after about 4 weeks of an ugly queen - - It has (roughly)

A - 1.5  frame  capped brood
B - 1.5  frame wet brood
C - 1.5  frame capped honey
D - 1.0  frame uncapped honey
E - 1.5 mostly drawn-out frames
F - 3 partially drawn-out frames
G - (blank - new frame)


It also has 2 queen cups

In about two weeks, I am planning to add a 2nd 10 frame deep brood box when I move the colony to a new location.  I plan to split upper and lower boxes as follows - - 

Slot    1   2   3   4   5   6    7    8   9   10
          A   G   B   G   C   G   D   G   E   F   

- - and leave it like that for the remainder of the season - - - maybe have a look in the top box  every three weeks or so - - drop on a shallow super over a queen excluder  about three weeks  after the move - - maybe a 2nd super 6 weeks later - - and then start thinking about end-of-season strategy - - -

Point is - -

1.  After 2 deep 10-frame brood chambers , I expect to be done for first season (but will watch for queen cells, and split if necessary - - but I don't expect that  to be necessary (reasonable?)

2.  I plan to leave the brood chambers & whatever stores they contain to the bees for winter stores, and plan to harvest whatever shallow supers I can stack on top of them for myself.  (Maybe 2?  2.5 on a good day, in a good season?)

1.  Are my assumptions (as a 'rough' gameplan) reasonable?
2.  Should I make plans to feed my bees over the (short in South Texas) winter season, or will they have enough honey stores in the 2 brood boxes?

Once again (I can't say it enough) thanks to the pros for helping the newbees figure out what they are doing - - - -

I hope I don't have to go through that "mean queen" rite of passage thing.  I'm not sure I understand your distribution of frames though.  If you are adding a second box, I would just pull a couple of brood frames from the first box and put in the middle of the second box. 

In my neck of the woods, two deep boxes full is enough to overwinter so I assume you will be alright there.   

if I am reading your diagram right and A and B brood frame....don't do it. A's and B's should make up the center 6 frames.... let them fill the outer two on either side with stores.....you can drop a drawn frame or foundation frame on the outer edge of the brood for them to draw or use or drop a foundation-less frame in the middle of the brood if you like but putting brood on the outside of a 10 frame isn't natural for them and its also bad to put undrawn foundation between two brood frames.

Also with only 2 frames of brood it doesnt sound like your population is where it needs to be for you to add a second box....the queen will only lay what the nurse bees can cover...so you need to go through several brood cycles to build population before they can cover more frames and she can lay more...its an exponential growth curve thing.

Or am I missing something?

No, Jeff, you're not missing a thing - - I'm just learning the ropes.  Your answer is
just what I needed - - perfectly logical.

Thanks - -

A couple more lessons learned - - -

Saturday, 16 April, 23 days after requeening

- - so I decided (reluctantly) to move my hive out of suburbia, after the neighbor's burning torches and rattling pitchforks kept waking up the dog - - - .

I got a carrier for the back of the Sequoia, a couple of tie-down straps and made a plan - - - go in the early morning when it was dark, and all the bees would be in the hive, drowsy - - a three minute job to slip-on the straps, plug the entrance, then have a cup of coffee and wait for the sun to come up - - -

But - - -

Seems the top of the hive was cocked enough to let bees out from the top - - -

Lesson 1:  Mean bees don't care what time of day it is if you are messing with their hive - - they wake up real fast.   'All the bees are in the hive?  Right!  ALL the bees are in the hive, and when the rocket goes up, they ALL answer the call to duty - - - Kill!

Since it was to be a 3-minute job, I dressed for a three minute job.  Top was all well and good - - - but jeans (rather than jeans and second layer of nylon jogging pants) and loose boots (rather than duct-taped) .  Really determined bees have no trouble stinging through jeans, or finding a way into boot-tops or pant-cuffs - -

Lesson 2:  If you KNOW (or suspect) the bees are mean, put on every piece of protective gear you own,  and make sure you are sealed inside it.  If you do it right, you won't get stung.  If you don't have enough good gear - - don't mess with them - - !

So - - I was getting stung (not a whole lot, but 15 hits or so - - enough to hurt) and I was trying to get away from the bees - - - someone suggested 'get in a car!'  Not recommended if you have 20 or 30 bees in hot pursuit.  You end up in a closed car with 10 or 15 bees, no matter how fast you are.  'Duck in the garage, and lower the door'!  Same result.  Open the garage door and let them out!  OK  we can try that, but while they are deciding what they wanted to do, I was busy with the two who had found their way inside my jeans and making their way toward sacred ground.  I found them, squeezed them through the cloth - - ah-ha! two down, two hundred to go - - -

Next?  A quick dash through the door from the garage to the kitchen?  Sure!  It worked so well in the car and the garage, why not give it a try?  Same result.  It took about an hour to hunt down and kill eight or nine of them. 

Lesson 3:  If you have observed lesson 2, move away from the hive, and wait them out - - don't leave a string of ugly bees in confined space you might want to use later in the day. 

Next step was to call my 'go-to' bee guy, an experienced exterminator/beekeeper who got me started, and tell him my sad tale - - - hoping he would offer a visit, and show me what I was doing wrong - - - .  Instead, he told me to 'buck-up', find out why the top wasn't sealing the top of the hive, tighten the straps, and fix it.  The message was clear enough - - 'You want to be a beekeeper?  Do it!'

Last night I took two of my heavy-duty ratchet motorcycle tie-downs and adjusted them for the right size loop around a new hive in my garage.  I waited for sunrise this morning - - no more fumbling around in the dark.  After observing lesson 2, and double checking every zipper and snap, I lit-up my smoker, and went out to strap the hive. 

Tuesday, 18 April, 25 days after requeening

First observation was that I hadn't tightened the tie-down strap very well - - it was slack, laying on the top of the hive.  The bees were no friendlier this morning than they were on Saturday.  Smoking made no difference.  Two bees flew into the smoker, hunting for something to sting.   BUT - - 3 minutes into it, I knew that I wasn't going to get stung.  Right gear, put on right, makes all the difference - - .  So I took the time to do it right - - installed a new top-board, dropped the top on, and everything appeared to fit well - - ratcheted it down.  Took a walk to the other side of my lot, and waited for my 'escort to either get bored and go home, or sting my protective clothing and die.

Lesson 4:  (The best lesson)  You can learn the rules the easy way or the hard way, but if you want to keep bees, you will never have fun with them if you are afraid of them.  'Protective gear is there to make the beekeeper confident'.  Got it.  I can't make good decisions in a panic - - I need to feel confident around my bees.

Tomorrow morning before sunrise  I will 'suit-up' and stuff the hive entrance - - then have my coffee, and wait for sunrise.  If I have done this right, there shouldn't be many (or any) bees around the hive, and I can load it on the carrier, and take it to its' new home - - -

I think I'm getting the hang of it - - - a little, anyway - - -

Clive do you have screened bottom boards? If so try this.....

I have found you have fewer bees active a couple hours after sunset than the same time before sunset. I set out a sprinkler and turn it on high and let it run for for 5-10 minutes to simulate a good rain storm....drives all the bees back inside and settles them right down....turn off the water and walk up and drop a piece of wood that will close the entrance in and then go to bed. you can tape the wood in place the next morning or use thumb tacks to keep it stationary if need be for transport.

I have to do this probably twice a week in the summer to put the girls to bed and prevent mass death from the pre dawn aerial mosquito spraying they do down here. Works like a charm for me But then again other than the biotch who stung me on the eyelid for no apparent reason this past weekend I have pretty calm bees and can walk around back and forth in front of the hives with no issues..... ;-P

I never tried the sprinkler trick, sounds pretty good. Especially if they are bearding.

What I do is use a smoker and heard them in using the smoke but trying to keep it out side the hive.
It would not work on a mean hive like this one but I also use a piece of cardboard or the screen to move them into the entrance and then put the screen in place and staple it.
Jim

Thanks!  Great tips.  I guess one of my earlier questions - -  whether a new queen was enough to adjust hive attitude enough to calm everyone down. - - - Ah - - no.
Not always, anyway.  Michael Bush was nice enough to point out  -  three weeks for the new queen's brood to emerge, another three for the 'house bees' to be replaced,
but (the part I hadn't considered) another three weeks for the field bees - - the foragers - - to die-off.  You want a full hive - - - during dark hours?  1/3 (or so) will still have
the 'mean-gene'.  Based on what I have seen - - it is pretty powerful - -

You might have a problem until all the old Queen's off springs are dead and  gone to complete the clean out of the nasty bees!

  Possible problem when cotton fields are sprayed with pesticides?? 

Around here, maybe thanks to GMO (I shouldn't have said that lol) the cotton is never sprayed. I'm about 1-2 hundred yards from a cotton field. If it is sprayed the bees and I have missed it. I met a guy that had around 25 hives and several hundred acres of cotton. He puts his hives around his field. Loves the honey and loves the pollination.

Hey, Key Largo Jeff - - -

" - fewer bees active an hour after sunset - - "  Exactly right!  The first operation I have performed that went absolutely according to plan.  Like putting kids to bed - - so much easier if you catch them after they have played hard all day - - - stapled a piece of cardboard and screen over the opening, and those little buggers never even buzzed - - - about 4 stragglers buzzing around the old hive-site this morning - - too bad they will miss the party.  The rest are all ready for the trip to their new home. 

Thanks.  Good advice.

Glad I could be of help :-)

 - - - in fact - - they were so quiet, I wondered if they had found a way to escape, or died - - -

They answered the question as soon as I let them out - - - it sounded like a jet turbine winding up - - - and they were really, reallt happy to see me - - - NOT!

I am finding I am not alone with my Africanized bees - -

When I picked-up 2 Buckfast queens in Navasota, TX, I had a chance to talk with an experienced beekeeper from Waco who told me a bit about his experience with Africanized bees - - - .  He tried re-queening - - and re-re-queening - - when the original re-queen was at first accepted, but later killed and replaced with an African queen - - .  I did not ask how many times he had seen that (wish I had) but he has given up on trying to raise tame bees.  His hives are in a remote area, and he likes the rapid build-up and honey production of the Africanized strain - - - .  It seems to me, that is just hastening the spread of the little buggers, but it is not likely whatever he does is likely to make much difference.  Waco, by the way, is in the northern part of Texas - - about the same longitude as the bottom third of Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia - - .

When I got back to Corpus Christi, I had an extra queen, and sold it to a local gal who told me this story - - - .  She bought a nuc, and started a hive, and all was well - - until it wasn't.  A third party called to let her know her bees appeared to be 'fighting', although they may have just been doing orientation flights - - - I asked if there were dead bees around the hive - - no - - but her bees were noticeably more aggressive and she couldn't find the queen.  She thinks the hive may have been invaded by Africanized bees, and wanted my marked Buckfast to make sure.  She will do a thorough search for her queen, kill it, and replace it with the marked queen so she will know in future if that queen is still in play. 

As for my hive, on April 24, 32 days after re-queen, I inspected the hive, dropped on a queen excluder, and 10-frame brood box with 2 frames of brood, a frame of capped and uncapped honey and 1 partially drawn-out comb.  Bees are as aggressive as ever.  I know there are still house bees from the old queen, and the field bees are old strain, but I had hoped to see some improvement.  Weather continues to be stormy, unsettled, low pressure system sitting on us - - might have something to do with it - - -

The question is this - - -

Is the African strain actively hunting-out non-Africanized colonies, and replacing peaceful queens? 
I am getting the impression that wild swarms in this part of the country are very likely to be Africanized to some extent, but I don't have a feel for "Africanized" - - if that is a "Yes/No" proposition, or if there are degrees of "Africanization".

I will try another round of re-queen with marked queens if I don't have tame hives by the end of May - - 68 days after original re-queen.  My first re-queen was an Italian from Florida, who are also in the Africanized zone, so there is the possibility I have replaced one hot queen for another - - - .

Trying to sort through it - - Suggestions welcome.  I'll go to my first Coastal Bend Beekeeper's Association May 5, and should get some good hints there - - will keep you posted

>Is the African strain actively hunting-out non-Africanized colonies, and replacing peaceful queens? 
I am getting the impression that wild swarms in this part of the country are very likely to be Africanized to some extent, but I don't have a feel for "Africanized" - - if that is a "Yes/No" proposition, or if there are degrees of "Africanization".

I have seen the spectrum from workable to ferocious.

Keep in mind that for 200 years we have been breeding our EHB to be reproductively disadvantaged.  We wanted less swarming and less drones.  We got it.  So the Africanized bees, which were never selected to be reproductively disadvantaged, have out reproduced our great breeding experiment...

>I will try another round of re-queen with marked queens if I don't have tame hives by the end of May - - 68 days after original re-queen.  My first re-queen was an Italian from Florida, who are also in the Africanized zone, so there is the possibility I have replaced one hot queen for another - - - .

Keep in mind that an F1 cross of your EHB and a local AHB will be much more vicious than simply an AHB.  I'd stick with local bees and cull for aggressiveness...

I have a total of 38 colonies. About 6 of them has got to go. They come looking for someone to sting. If you go 50-100 yards from their hive you'll get stung. OMG, at the build up! You can identify the mean hives because they are the tallest.

Just back from my hive and started getting 'buzzed' about 60' away by a couple advanced guards - - -
They were not 'extreme' and did not call for reinforcements. 

When it came time to 'pop-the-top' they were meaner than ever.  This is my first dance, so I don't have a feel for 'workable to ferocious'.  When I returned, my gloves looked like they had been sprinkled  with pepper, I caught 5 -or 6 stings around the wrist (leather gloves, with heavy canvas gauntlets) and a couple on the crown of my head where the 'cap' got too close to my skull. 

I got the top box off, inserted the new queen candy-box, and moved it to a new base in the position of the old box - - - moved the old box (with (I hope) the old queen) about 50 yards away.  There were guys working about 250' away, and I didn't want them getting stung, so I shut-it-down for the night.  Will go back tomorrow and finish moving the old box to its' new location, another 50 yards away from the old site.  (It turns out the old site was/is objectionable to the owner)   The new box will eventually move to a new location about 5 miles from the present site.  Both old and new boxes were full of bees

You follow that?  I am living it, and it is confusing to me - - -

Thanks, Michael, but I'm missing it.  Could you dumb-it-down for me?  "Keep in mind that an F1 cross of your EHB and a local AHB will be much more vicious than simply an AHB.  I'd stick with local bees, and cull for aggressiveness  - - "  EHB/AHB cross more aggressive?  Then why re-queen?


So EHB = European Honey Bee?
AHB = Africanized Honey Bee?

I got what I thought were 'tame'-bred queens to calm down the wild locals - - - I might have been heading in the wrong direction?  What do I do now?  I've got two colonies, one that I re-queened on March 24 that is still mean as hell, and one ( a split from the first) where I introduced a new queen today.  How do I cull for aggressiveness?  Who are these people who are working their hives without gloves, and inviting their bees to dinner?  How do you do that? 

I have a line on a new location that is about 2 miles from the nearest human, and four or five miles from the present site.    I was supposed to get a tour and keys to the gate this morning, but the land owner had an illness in his family - - it may be a few days.  When it is available, I will move both colonies there, where all I have to worry about is me - - - but - - I'm missing a plan - - - Help.

PS - - one more piece to consider - - -

My new site will probably be big enough for a dozen colonies, and it is 'remote' - - - except when the surrounding fields are being tilled or harvested.  Even then it will be some distance from the working machinery - - but - - it is machinery/mowing  noise that triggers  fatal bee attacks around here.  They are rare, but they happen once or twice/year - - - one this year about a month ago - - -
Looked for Elmore County on Google Earth - - - you are a good bit north of me, GSF. 

So about the 6 - - what does 'got to go' mean?  Throw a garbage bag over the hive, and light-off a gopher gasser?  As much as I would hate to do that, if that is the option, then I can handle it.  These little buggers are not responding to therapy. 

There are a couple of big commercial operations about 100 miles north of here - - I will make a trip or two, and see what they have to say, if they are seeing the problem, and how they are handling it.  Any info in the mean time will be welcome.  I'd hate to dump my first two colonies and start over with commercial nucs - - - but that could be the best/only option - - -

Quote from: CliveHive on April 28, 2016, 09:44:51 PM

Who are these people who are working their hives without gloves, and inviting their bees to dinner?  How do you do that? 

Sorry I can't help you with your mean hive situation.  I usually work mine in shorts, t-shirt with a hat and veil.  And yes I have never worn gloves.  Luckily I don't have to worry about AHB in my location.  The angriest my bees have gotten is a few head butts to my veil.  I do get stung, but its usually my fault for smashing them.  Hope you get them calmed down soon.

By got to go I mean requeen or relocate.

I talked to my state inspector yesterday. I described my situation to him. He said that he's pretty sure they are not Africanized by the fact they are storing a ton of honey. He also said folks don't realize just how mean European bees can get.

Most of my hives I don't have to wear gloves, and at times can take my veil off to look closer(clearer). On the other hand, if they wrap me up because I popped the top then something's going to change.

>So EHB = European Honey Bee?
>AHB = Africanized Honey Bee?

Yes, and yes.

>I got what I thought were 'tame'-bred queens to calm down the wild locals - - - I might have been heading in the wrong direction?

Quite possible.

>What do I do now? 

I would not tolerate mean bees.  But you have options.  If you have a nice hive, you can introduce the queen from the nice hive to the mean hive (after removing the old queen, of course).  If you've already had issues requeening the hot hive I would remove the queen, wait a week and destroy every queen cell and then introduce the new queen.  Dividing, of course, makes all of this work better as they will be calmer.  Local nice queens would be my first choice, so if you don't have one, maybe someone locally will sell you some queens.

>He also said folks don't realize just how mean European bees can get.

True.  I think the vicious bees back in the late 1800s were F1 hybrids of the Italians and the "German Black Bees" (Amm)

I used to frequent a bee site that was mostly European Beekeepers. After mentioning that I was not using any protection, they uniformally acted like I was being irresponsible and crazy. They all talked like they always wear 100 percent protection including heavy gloves. Sounded like their bees were a lot meaner than ours or they (because of using thick gloves) created meaner gloves.
Jim

GSF - Followed your advice and re-located - - split, and re-queened the new hive - - - New location is well away from civilization, so I can work out my mean bee problem without fear of harming anyone.  A couple of miles of grain fields, followed by a half-mile grove of mesquite (that happened to have a small abandoned horse lot, perfect for hives) followed by three miles of cotton fields, about three weeks away from blossoming. 

Thanks Michael - - I'm learning.  The F1 split appears not to have helped at all, but I will wait until 26May, 9 weeks after re-queen in the original hive, to admit defeat, and re- re-.  At that point. I will have two choices:  a local queen, as you suggest - - or a Californian Wildflower Meadows Italian.  I will be searching for a gentle local queen - - - - .

In the mean time, we'll see how Bee Weaver's Buckfast/Italian hybrid works out in the split.  (Introduced April 27 - - - so end of June before final results are in there - - - .  Looks like my first season will be a 'learning experience' for me - - - not without some pain - - . 

On the plus side, these mean guys propagate like crazy.  I expect they will be at full battalion strengths in time for the cotton blossom honey flow - - - . 

Hey Jim - -
I had to reinforce my gloves with duct tape if I didn't want to get stung - - that worked but the duct tape pulled off a chunk or two that had a high concentration of stingers, so now I'm hunting for  a new pair - - - maybe the ssteel mesh the oyster shuckers use under a conventional pair? 
Follow the thread (please).  I am a bone-head, but follow direction well.  I'm determined to have nice hives :)

I didnt know you could use the words "nice bees" and "South Texas" in the same sentence :-)

I'd never heard the term until Michael Bush used it.  In S. Texas those are the ones who smile while they are stinging you - - -

The two hives - - original and split - - are in their new location - - - separated from each other by about 20'

The split is full of active bees, and appears to be doing well.  I had not removed all the cork from the candy box, and bees were unable to free the queen - - so she had been in the box8 days today.  She was alive and well.  Evidently the bees fed her through the screen and I freed her today - - -

The original hive was in pretty bad shape - - - .  The hive was full of dead bees, there was a small ant infestation, and quite a few hive beetles.  I installed a top feeder and will return tomorrow, install beetle traps, and put the stand on oil-filled containers for the ants - - but this looks to my un-trained eye like major decline.  I may have lost too many bees during the split, or during transportation to the new site.  Maybe took too much brood or honey for the split - - ?? The queen appeared healthy and active.  There was brood in various stages of development, but it dd not look healthy/glossy/well cared-for.  I saw two cells that appeared to have the caps removed and dead bees in the cells - - - maybe just not enough bees to care for the hive, but why?? 

Suggestions?

Re-reading and rethinking this and quite a few other posts,  it looks like the queen has stopped laying.  That would account for the 'dull' look of the old brood - - and let me know the queen is probably getting ready to abscond with what is left of the original hive. 

What went wrong?  I think Jeff nailed it in post 31 - - - I rushed my split - - too early - - not enough  brood, or not enough stores to feed two colonies and keep them healthy.  I didn't leave enough honey in the original hive, and the bees starved.  That all fits - - and I could go on and beat myself up quite awhile, but I would rather get that hive back on track. 

So - -

1.  Capture the queen
2.  Clean the hive - remove dead bees, salvage built-out comb.
3.  Add new bees
4.  Introduce old queen and look for acceptance
5.  Release queen & start again

??

The old hive has the nasty queen? If so pinch her and dont let her leave with the remaiing bees.....leave them queen less and then recombine them together with a newspaper combine after they have been queen-less for a few days.....voila nasty hive problem solved....takes em back to a single hive and prevents the abscond.....then split a little later down the road when they build up and llet them build a new queen with the better genetics.

Or am i missing info?

Ahhhh - - No.  You have it, but Im' not sure I am thinking about this right - - -

The "old" queen was/is the first re-queen and started laying eggs around 39 days ago - - So "most" all of the house bees
are from her, but the field bees are still mostly from her mean predecessor - - - including the ones in the healthy hive split - -
so it is difficult to know whether she is producing mean bees.  The ones in the healthy split still like to sting, but they seem
less determined to kill me.  No way of knowing for sure which queen the uglies came from. 

Bottom line is I'm not 100% sure she is the problem - - - Why take a chance?  Well.  That is a good question.  Why take a chance.
Because I have 39 days invested in seeing if this queen is any good, and a new queen comes with the same questions - - .  A new
queen from local stock will mate with local wild bees, which are generally pretty testy - - - .  Decisions, decisions.

If that isn't complicated enough, I ordered 2 Italian queens from Wildflower Meadows (Southern California) in mid-March  that will be
delivered May 11.  There will be people at the meeting on the 5th who will be pleased to have them, so I am not concerned with them
going to waste, but at this point I have to make a decision and get on with it - - -

After all my fussing - - - what do you think?  Still going with pinch the queen, put the remaining bees in the split-box, re-do the split
later, and let them produce a queen??

Clive,
How many boxes of bees do you now have in your strong hive?
Do you have a spare hive box or nuc ready to go that you could make a new hive from?
If you have an extra hive and more than one box of bees, you could make a split and give the one of the new queens some bees in nuc or hive and have her ready in case the old queen is mean.  It is always good to have a nuc ready to go if one of your hives has a queen problem.
Jim

The strong hive has one deep box, and a new queen.  The one with the questionable queen is the one that is failing.  The immediate question is what to do with that box, and the queen that is in it, and the concern is that that queen has stopped laying, and likely to abscond. 

I think I will go with Jeff's suggestion - - kill off the questionable queen, wait a few days, newspaper transfer the remaining bees from the questionable hive to the strong hive, wailt until it is strong enough for a second box, and then re-try the split. 

Brood in the failed box looks like it may be dead - - - what should be saved, and what should be cleaned-up and discarded?  Save the drawn-out comb, clean-up the dead bees, and scrape/clean anything that looks dead?

Quote from: CliveHive on May 02, 2016, 01:02:48 PMBrood in the failed box looks like it may be dead - - - what should be saved, and what should be cleaned-up and discarded?  Save the drawn-out comb, clean-up the dead bees, and scrape/clean anything that looks dead?

Pinch the old queen and get rid of dead bees, but I wouldn't bother with scraping out the brood that looks dead. Do the newspaper combine and let the house bees do the undertaking and cleaning - they'll do a better job than we could!

What Phil said.....but if that doesnt work

its south texas....you have fire ants.....natures garbage disposals.....if the nurse bees don't clean-out the dead brood to your satisfaction pull the abandoned frames out and put them in the shade near an ant mound and they will clean it out ;-)

Thanks - - Will do.  Think I figured it out - - - , and will appreciate review of a painful lesson - -   When I split the hive the split went onto the old hive landing board, and the original hive was moved about 20' away and allowed to 'calm down' for a couple of days, while I prep'd the new site.  Returning bees found the split - - no problem.  I thought (wrongly) that house bees in the original hive would live on stored honey until I got them moved to their new home - - - but - - when the girls didn't show up from their foraging, the queen shut-down - - - and the house bees shut down - - and the small hive beetles didn't shut down - - - and when I moved the hives, and got a look inside, the split was healthy & happy and getting to know their new queen,  and the original colony had mostly dead.  A lot to happen in 2.5 days - - - .  Do I have this right? 

Will newspaper transfer this evening - - moving the now queenless original hive deep box on top of the active and newly queen'd split box, with a couple of sheets of newspaper (with a couple of small slits) between the two boxes.  Sorry to be a PIA, but I am a little goosey after screwing this up, and appreciate the 'double-check'

Thanks

Rick

Something else went wrong...house bees will live off stores and don't require foragers....but if you reduced the strength of the colony enough and there wasnt enough population to keep the beetles intact they could have slimed the stores.....2.5 days seems a little too fast for that to happen though...

Any other thoughts?

I saw maybe 15-20 beetles - - no beetle larvae - - and no slime on honey frames - - enough dead bees to cover the bottom of the hive - - -

The stronger split box had the larger population of original, mean-queen bees, a large percentage of which were out when I did the split.  Could they go on a 'search and destroy' mission when they got home from work, find the original house bee population (new queen brood) and take them out?  If they did that, would they have left the queen? 

I found (and removed, rather than pinched) the old queen, and put her in a screen-topped jar with a few grooms I got from the hive - - but I think I got flying bees and not nurse bees - - - they didn't get along - - the queen killed the two I put in there to take care of her, which lead me to the 'bee-war' theory - - -

I am optimistic that the re-combine is a good fix, and will get me back on the road to a healthy hive.  As long as I have to disturb them one more time, I'll have a look for the new, marked BeeWeaver queen to make sure she has settled-in.  If so, I 'll leave things alone until we get into the cotton flower honeyflow, then add a queen excluder and shallow super to the stack.  Does that sound reasonable?

just finished newspaper combine. 

Started inspection with strong, split hive.  It had three full frames of honey, 2 partial honey frames, a frame of old brood and four empty frames with bees starting to draw-out comb, and 2 queen cells,  I went through all the frames twice, and couldn't locate the queen introduced on 27th April (set free May 1).  It was a marked queen - - I should have seen it - - - - .  Bees buzzed around me, but did not attack.  I did not notice any attempts to sting.  Laid down newspaper, held it in place with a queen excluder grid so I could hunt for the queen in the lower box next inspection, and went to the failed/failing box - - -

I had placed oil reservoirs on the feet of the hive stand last inspection.  There were no beetles or ants in the oilreservoirs around the hive feet.   Inspected beetle traps inserted between frames during last inspection - - - one had 30 or 40 dead fire ants & no small hive beetles in one trap, and nothing in the other.  That hive is now queenless, but the bee population appears to have increased since last inspection.  Hive beetles and ants are gone.  One frame has two new queen cells.  Bees are docile.

Placed failed/failing deep box over newspaper on strong/split box, and returned for closer inspection of failed hive base (covered with dead bees).
It was moist to sticky, with dead bees 'clumped together' with a moist, semi-viscous stuff - - - not gooy - - - and not dry - - - just semi-moist.  Is that beetle slime?
on the other hand, I had added an old fashioned top feeder with a pint of 50/50 sugar/water fed through a top with a very small nail hole in the lid.  That might have found its' way into the hive base - - - 

Those are the pieces, but I can't make them fit into a cohesive story.  The good news is the colony seems to be 'on-the-mend' in terms of growth, stability elimination of invaders, and the bees are finally calm enough to live with.   

I would welcome your thoughts/comments.

So no queen seen in either hive, but queen cells seen? Did you see any eggs? Sounds like you've got yourself an interesting story here! Wait for one of the experts to chime in on this one

Original Queen & Hive

Put in service Late February
Grew quickly, but produced increasingly aggressive bees resulting in re-queen with Florida mated Italian 3/24.
4/10 inspection showed new brood and honey - - - rapid hive expansion, still ugly bee disposition.
4/20 Neighbor revolt forced hive move out of suburbia (they didn't like getting stung :)
4/24 Hive continued rapid growth - - added deep hive super in prep for split. 
4/27 Split hive and introduced BeeWeaver queen to split in 10-frame deep box hive
4/30 Moved original hive and split to new location in cotton fields
Inspection showed original hive in steep decline with many dead bees, but 3/24 Italian Queen in place
The Split hive was healthy, with many bees, but marked BeeWeaver queen not released from candy box - - My error - - poor job of clearing cork. 
  Released the BeeWeaver queen to the split colony.
5/02 Placed sick original hive in oil baths around stand to get rid of ants and hive beetles, added top feeder, and removed queen that was introduced 3/24, since her
   influence did little to calm the hive.  Left hive queenless for two days - - -
5/04 This is where I notice the original hive appears to be re-jeuvanated and has fresh queen cells.  They may have been started when I removed the Florida queen
   two days earlier, but I didn't see them - - - but that could be me - - - I'm still learning how to look, and what to look for - - -

   I could not find the marked BeeWeaver queen in the split hive  that was put in the hive in a candy-box on 4/27, and released on 4/30.  Perhaps she was there and perhaps not.
   Hindsight says I should have kept looking until I found her, dead or alive - - but I didn't.  I also don't know when the queen cells were made in the split hive - - - but assume they
   must be from the Florida queen's brood that was transfered when the original hive was split. 

Believing - -

1.  I had split too soon - - before I had enough bee population to support two hives - - and - -

2.  My Florida re-queen was continuing to throw mean bees - - -

- - Today, 5/04, I did a newspaper transfer, and reunited the original bees (now in a queenless deep 10-frame) as a super,  with  the active, honey-laden, healthy split 10frame hive - -
The one where I turned loose a BeeWeaver queen 4 days earlier - - - but can't find today - - -

So - - that's where I am - - -

I think I either have The BeeWeaver queen, or I don't.  If I do, she will take out whatever queen cells are being developed - - - {Oh, schizer!  I have to get the queen grid out from between the two boxes! - - first thing tomorrow.} and she will go on to be the reigning queen - - or - - one of the queens from the queen cells will emerge, and take over the hive.

 

at some point you need to leave them alone to do their thing Clive....they are going to get tired of you messing with them and abscond on you if you dont ;-)

I'll be happy to start now - - seriously - - and I appreciate the advice.  They seem happy and healthy - - either they have the BeeWeaver queen or will soon have one they hatched-out themselves from the Florida queen brood.  There are three or four empty frames in each box, so there is nothing I need to do in there. 
The only remaining concern is the queen excluder between the two boxes.  It doesn't seem like a good idea to have a different queen in each box, and it looks like I might be heading in that direction.  It should only take a minute to pull that out of there, but please let me know if you think that might be a problem. 

I can see the things I have been doing are no doubt stressful to the bees.  I'm expecting cotton blooms in a week, and hoping the workload will get the colony focused on making honey, and make my only involvement adding supers.   

Thanks for your patience

 - - And so I did - - (leave them alone) - - and so they did - - - (fill their first super with honey) - - and so I started another colony. 
I have five now, and will have another 3 or 4 before the end of the season.  Three are mean as Hillary, but they are well away from
polite company and won't do any damage.  I'll let them build the colony while I am out of country for three weeks, and re-queen
when I return.

Some common themes running through the comments are really true.  If you leave the bees alone, they will usually figure it out.
After all, they've been working on it for a couple million years - - -

Thanks to all the folks who helped me get over newbee, hover-mom jitters.  I may not be cured, but have moved a long way in that direction. 
Both me and the bees are much happier - - -

Make sure they have room to grow if you are going to be out of the country for three weeks.....not sure what your flow is like but its entirely possible for them to fill a super and run out of room during a three week period.

Other than that enjoy your time abroad ;-)

Thanks Jeff.

I'm watching it. - - - one frame mostly empty, and 2 half empty in the super - - .  I put on a 10 frame shallow, which was all I had 'ready to go', so I figure/hope that will hold it. 

Probably...south Texas should be drying up this time of year but with all the rain who know what might bloom late ;-)

Still appears to be running strong.   I' out of country until July  12, so will just have to see what I have when I return.

https://d.docs.live.net/2f3aef950036ff43/Documents/Document%20(2).docx

Oh, my.  Re-reading this thread, Im amazed on two fronts;  1.  That I have any bees., 2.  That you had the patience to put up with me!  Well - - thanks. 
Here's what I;ve learned - -

Some of it - - well - - a lot of this "beekeeping" - - has to do with the pure joy of learning something you didn't know before.  And so, the "Tjorborg Strategy"   - - -

While traveling in Iceland, I met a transplanted Norwegian who was trying to introduce honey bees to Iceland.  Among the many challenges he faced, was fighting the extremely short  mating & honey-flow season of the far North.  I was fortunate enough to visit his hives, and see the magnificent Carniolian bees that made-up his six-colony apiary.

In our 1-hour trip from  Reykjavik to his Apiary on the semi-famous White River salmon river, he explained the process of "re-queening" he had learned as a child some 32 years earlier in Norway.  He promised a "100%" success rate, if I followed his advice - - he had never seen it fail - - - . 

Step #1 -

Place the new queen in a box with a couple of frames of drawn-out comb.  Period.  No honey - - no brood.  No bees.  Just the new queen in an empty box, queen excluder between queen and entrance. 

Step 2 -

During an active foraging day, remove the old hive 30' feet from its' original site, and replace it (ie, put it in the exact position of the old hive) with the hive containing the new queen.  Pinch the old queen - - leave that hive queenless until the new hive has released the queen. 

Step 3 -

In three to 4 days, after the new queen has been released, do a newspaper re-combine with the new brood chamber. 

The theory - - -

A.  When the old hive becomes queenless, they will become despondent, and go into decline for a couple of days (They will also lose almost all of their aggression).  No foragers will be coming in - - - (they will all be going to the "new" hive).  These are house bees - - - not ready to fly, but able to sustain themselves with honey stores - - -

B.  When foragers return to the "new" hive, the first thing they notice is there is no guiding queen pheromones to tell them what to do next - - - other than the new queen scent, saying - - - "let me outta here!"  They will revert to their early  bee instincts to release the queen in distress.  They are evolutionary  steps removed from nurse, or house bee concerns, so their loyalty to the old queen is diminished - - -their loyalty is to the hive.  They readily accept the new queen, and cluster around her to release her so she can proceed to produce brood. 

In Fact - - -

It worked exactly that way, except the original hive was from a queenless swarm and packed with 3 frames of brood, and two of honey.    The bees were healthy, and immediately began storing honey.  They built a pretty healthy hive - - but - - after 4 weeks, there were no queen cells.  Why should they?    They had brood hatching, and honey in the larder. 

Enter the Tjborg strategy - - -

Consider - -

At the time the main hive was moved, the house bees, and brood-becoming-bees never knew the influence of queen pheromones.  They were 'doing-just-fine' and the last thing they needed was some queen dropping in to change their routine - - so it was natural they would be hostile toward (and kill) a new queen - - -

So Consider - - -

The Tjborg strategy gives the old house bees time to consider what it means to be queenless,. as well as gives the foragers time to consider what it would be like to be queenless, and when they are re-combined 4 days later, how really fine it is to be one big happy family. 

Note - - -

1.  My first surprise was the lack of activity at both new and old hive entrances.  In retrospect, it was perfectly natural.  The old hive had no foragers, and the new hive was busy fussing over the new queen.

2.  Second surprise was how gently old hive foragers clustered around new queen - - giving her release and comfort priority over foraging activity. 

And So - - -

Unless things go totally off-track - - - I would say the Tjorborg Strategy performs as advertised - -which is to say - - pretty darn well!  - give it a try - - - -

Good read, thanks for the info.

Thanks for that about the requeening.