My nephew wants to check out my hives with me. How do I introduce him to them?
I've had 4-H kids over from time to time. I keep some extra veils and some old white shirts I bought from Goodwill.
My 2 grand daughter's have been around my hives since they 5 and 2 years old. Now 6 and 11. They did not go up directly to the hives because we explained about being calm and the problems with fast moves near the hives. They were both fearless. I was constantly telling the youngest, while she was playing in my back yard, to put shoes on or she would get stung. All i ever heard was "I won't get stung Papa". She did not like shoes at all. The youngest at age 5 practically put her head in my observation hive when we were splitting it and got her first sting on the neck.
Then for a while they were scared to death of them. This past weekend both of them were helping me with the hives.
Jim
I tell them to stand back 50 feet until I get the hive opened....unprotected. Then, if the bees are calm, I tell them to advance at their own comfort speed. I stop them about 5 feet from the side of the hive and explain the flight path. Then it is up to them how they do after that. I never push them, but let them advance as they feel comfortable.
Thanks for the advice. He loves the outdoors like I do but neither of his parents do so he does all his outdoor stuff with me and I want to keep him around doing this kind of stuff so I do not want to scare him off. I am going to get him a full outfit just to make myself feel better and probably some baby epi pen just to ease my own mind.
Quote from: bwallace23350 on May 02, 2016, 01:26:22 PM
I am going to get him a full outfit just to make myself feel better
That would make me feel better too. The pens scar me as much as the sting would. I would rather the child was tested in the presents of a doctor then me playing doctor.
Why does the pen scare you?
Because the pen is as much a medical emergency as the sting. It's main purpose is to give you time to get the person to medical care. Should you miss judge the situation and use the pen and the child dies your not going to fell good about yourself.
Good point. But I would think it would only be used when the danger was clear.
Never experiencing the situation, I don't know how to make that call.
But Ace...if the reaction to the sting is so bad as to warrant the use of the pen......why would you conclude the use of the pen was the cause of death?
BW I'm not a doctor....but have several first aid certs and was a Dive boat captain and scuba instructor for 15 years....I have used pens for Man of War stings and with a little training and caution there really isn't an issue where you should be afraid to use the pen if you have it and do not have immediate access to an ambulance or EMT's if a severe reaction is observed or indicated.
My son's a paramedic. He warned me about the pen. He said only use if there's no other option - and if you're have to try really hard to breathe. There's no other option then. bottom line, talk with a doctor.
I would imagine things would be better with an adult. On the bright side we are a turn left out of the parking lot 1 stop like and 5 miles from the hospital.
I have both transported the patient to the hospital when no pen was available, and administered the pen on another occasion. I many times over prefer having the pen. The danger from my frantic driving was much worse than the danger from the pen.
Quote from: KeyLargoBees on May 02, 2016, 04:02:36 PM
why would you conclude the use of the pen was the cause of death?
I did not conclude the use of the pen was the cause of death. I said you would not feel good about yourself. If the bee stung a child and the child died it is not your fault. If you inject the child with an epi pen now there is another possible cause of death. If the parent wanted to get a pen and make that choice it is their choice. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. I would have no problem administering it to an adult that I thought was going into shock.
I would not let a youngster near my hives unless their parent was present and OK with the cloud of bees that can occur with an open hive. After the first visit the parent can decide if it is something they want their youngster involved with.
Ace,
I had a severe reaction from Gasex. My feet began to itch, then swell and then my hands did the same and my lips started to swell up. I took 2 Benedryl and woke up my wife. I started having trouble breathing. Luckily the Benedryl started taking effect and calmed things down before the emergency medics arrived. At that time I did not have a epi pen available. My beekeeping training saved me, if I had ignored the symptoms and not known to take Benedryl I could have turned out very bad for my family.
My wife was having a party for her school children at my farm a week ago and 4 year old boy was stung by a fire ant when he stepped out of the car. Within minutes his mother brought him in because he was having trouble breathing. I do not have an epi pen for children and my epi pens were at my house in town because that is where my bees were but I was wishing I had one for kids there. I gave his mother a Benedryl capsule to give and called 911. Again the Benedryl kept things under control for the 20 minutes it took for emergency medics arrived. He was in serious trouble before he made it to the hospital and needed an IV. He is fine now but an epi pen could have been the difference between life and death.
In this case I would have let his mom use it as I did with the Benedryl but I would have done it to save his life.
Jim
My son has been helping me with our hives since he was 2, he will be 6 this summer and is still fearless but also respectful of the bees. He always wears a full suit and veil, they are reasonably priced on eBay for about 50-60 bucks for full suit and gloves. Totally worth the money and much less expensive than the bee supply stores. He has never been stung so I don't know how he will react, however he is allergic to peanuts so we always have a couple of epi pens and Benadryl on hand. I guess as bee keepers we are more prepared to recognize the symptoms and react appropriately than the average parent with a kid that gets stung while play in the yard or playground.
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Maybe a doctor or pharmacist can explain the difference between an epi pen and Benedryl. I can't but I know there is a difference. There is also a big difference between administering a drug to a child vs. an adult. And I don't know the details on that either. I am pretty sure an epi pen is a prescription drug which means it is meant for an individual prescribed by a medical doctor that knows the history of the patient. Making a life or death decision is not my strong suit. The only youngsters that have been near my hives are my nephews and their parents were present. At that time the hives were small and gentile as a lamb. I do splits now with large hives creating queenless situations. I have been tagged for no reason mowing the lawn (single occurrence). So I know honeybees can be unpredictable. If you want to take on the responsibility of having unrelated youngsters near your hives it is your prerogative. It is not something I would enjoy.
Quote from: Acebird on May 03, 2016, 08:36:56 AM
Maybe a doctor or pharmacist can explain the difference between an epi pen and Benedryl. I can't but I know there is a difference. There is also a big difference between administering a drug to a child vs. an adult. And I don't know the details on that either. I am pretty sure an epi pen is a prescription drug which means it is meant for an individual prescribed by a medical doctor that knows the history of the patient. Making a life or death decision is not my strong suit. The only youngsters that have been near my hives are my nephews and their parents were present. At that time the hives were small and gentile as a lamb. I do splits now with large hives creating queenless situations. I have been tagged for no reason mowing the lawn (single occurrence). So I know honeybees can be unpredictable. If you want to take on the responsibility of having unrelated youngsters near your hives it is your prerogative. It is not something I would enjoy.
Brian,
Are you saying you would watch a person die, waiting for help to arrive when you have the know how to have a chance to save them. I could not. I would have to try. Epi pens are life saving devices, not normal medication. Benedryl just gives you more time, keeps your airway from closing up until help arrives.
Jim
"First, do no harm..."--Hippocratic oath
jim, I am saying I don't have the know how and my solution is to not let youngsters near my hives. I remember as a kid that there was a procedure for saving a choking victim by shoving a Bic pen or sharp object through the esophagus. I doubt if I could do that either.
They make Jr Epi pens for children with smaller doses if a child is involved or expected to be involved it would be prudent to have one of those on hand.
I have watched someone slide into anaphylactic shock and stop breathing during my career as a dive boat captain...was early on and I didn't carry a pen on the boat yet. ...Had to rely on my slow ass boat to get them back to the dock or rendezvous with a law enforcement vessel which never happened. By pure chance I had an emergency room nurse on board as a customer so she and my divemaster performed CPR on the patient while I raced the clock back to a waiting ambulance....the diver survived.... But I vowed to always carry a pen after that and over the course of 12 years used it twice with good results.
Its a personal choice but i have one at the house and carry one with me when I visit my outyards...
So has anyone here actually gone into anaphylatic shock?
Not me, but you'll hear from members who are in treatment to build their immunity. And yet they are still keeping bees. Like somebody said, it's an addiction.
There is an aussie who posts on the down-under board that had a close call.....but none of the US members that I can think of.
That's probably who I had in mind, Jeff
Here in Australia Epipens can only be prescribed by a Doctor and only then when a Specialist has confirmed diagnosis, post hospital ER admission or established prophylaxis after an anaphylactic episode.
In other words if you need you are allowed to get it - if not needed then you can't get it. - No mishaps that way.
Way back in another life time when I did my Pharmacy Training we did a practical on the effectiveness of stopping an allergic reaction. - best treatment was to apply an anti-histamine cream immediately (which are no longer available for sale in Australia - so I make my own) and take an oral anti-histamine within 30 minutes. Stops swelling and itch and soreness very well (might help - but not stop anaphylactic reaction still get medical attention) Also the sedating antihistamines are way more effective at stopping itch than non-sedating as the anti pyritic effect is linked to the sedation pathway.
Down south a bit more in Australia, Victoria you can buy epipens over the counter but without a prescription you have to pay full price. I carry ampoule's and syringes in all our cars due to the reaction I had years ago. Also have a mother in law who is highly allergic to jumping jacks, her reaction is that bad she cant breathe within minutes.
Quote from: Lancej on May 04, 2016, 02:36:12 AM
Down south a bit more in Australia, Victoria you can buy epipens over the counter but without a prescription you have to pay full price. I carry ampoule's and syringes in all our cars due to the reaction I had years ago. Also have a mother in law who is highly allergic to jumping jacks, her reaction is that bad she cant breathe within minutes.
Lance - they are $38.30 for General and $6.80 for pension on the NHS - $100 plus privately/OTC
I think the last one I got prescribed by a Doctor was around $70 years ago, a pack of 8 or 6 ? ampoule's $12 (OTC) and as I leave them in the car I replace them every 6 to 12 months.
Hi all
First let me start out , this is not intended for medical care nor am I a doctor.
There you have been warned.
Epi pens are used in severe restrictions to allergic reaction. It includes swelling of throat and shortness of breath. I work in healthcare and have used it many times. It should only be used on a person that is prescribed for. I went and got a set for when my hive because you never know. I went to my doctor and got a script and used this link https://www.activatethecard.com/epipen/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=epi%20pen%20free_exact&utm_content=epipen%20cost&utm_campaign=epipen%202015%20-%20branded&gclid=CKiBttmXwMwCFYhTgQod55gC3g&gclsrc=ds and it was free. I hope this helps
Stay safe
Jeff