Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: SlickMick on August 10, 2016, 01:05:41 AM

Title: old black brood frames
Post by: SlickMick on August 10, 2016, 01:05:41 AM
After attempting  to extract and clean up old brood frames. I wonder if it  is all worth the effort. With an abundance of old cocoons and stiff hard comb, for the amount  of wax and honey reclaimed it all seems to be a waste of time and effort unless the frame is in excellent condition.

Unless there is an easier and more simple  way other than of centrifuging or scraping the honey free from the comb.

How do others do it??

Mick
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: little john on August 10, 2016, 03:45:57 AM
I run foundationless, and always re-use frames.  Any wax recovered is just a bonus.  Frames are placed in a greenhouse (a solar wax melter would do an even better job) - until the comb droops or falls off.  Then the frames are roughly cleaned-up with a scraper, and either put it into store, or re-used 'as is'.

Although I don't bother with swarms myself, I know that for baiting swarm boxes, the blacker and smellier the comb, the better - so don't melt 'em all down ...

LJ
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: divemaster1963 on August 10, 2016, 04:48:23 AM
I try to reclaim the older wax to use as starter strips on foundationless frames. The bees seem as little John said the bees are more attracted to it. I also save a few for swarm boxes. It seems to hold swarm better than using all new frames.

John
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: BeeMaster2 on August 10, 2016, 05:51:58 AM
As mentioned, old empty comb is great for swarm boxes. I usually have 4 foundation less frames with a waxed strip in the top and one old drawn frame. Swarms seem to like this a lot.
I also put the old comb in the solar wax melter. You get a little bit of wax from it. I do not try to melt it down in a pot, the old comb just seems to absorb the wax and all you get is slum gum.
Jim
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: SlickMick on August 10, 2016, 06:40:16 AM
Do any of you try to recover the honey? How do you do this with such hard comb making extraction difficult?

Mick
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: little john on August 10, 2016, 06:56:43 AM
Personally, I don't bother - in this locale there's usually not enough to be concerned about - but if there's any residual brood or pollen then I place those combs at the very back of a Long Hive (which are particularly good for doing this), and the bees will clear them out.  Removing pollen may take a while, but eventually all those combs will be as clean as a whistle.
LJ
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: Beeboy01 on August 10, 2016, 01:01:31 PM
I've found that with real old comb there are a good number of drone cells present and the comb is irregular and not much use. I'll extract it if there is any honey in it and then put it back over a hive to get cleaned out. After that the comb gets busted out into a solar wax melter and the frame gets scrapped down and reused if possible. I keep the old black comb separate from cappings and other fresh wax like burr comb in the solar wax melter when possible. It's time consuming reusing old frames but still worth it to me at a hobby level.   
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: tjc1 on August 10, 2016, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 10, 2016, 05:51:58 AM
I do not try to melt it down in a pot, the old comb just seems to absorb the wax and all you get is slum gum.
Jim

My experience, exactly - not worth the trouble!
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: tjc1 on August 10, 2016, 07:48:52 PM
Quote from: little john on August 10, 2016, 06:56:43 AM
Personally, I don't bother - in this locale there's usually not enough to be concerned about - but if there's any residual brood or pollen then I place those combs at the very back of a Long Hive (which are particularly good for doing this), and the bees will clear them out.  Removing pollen may take a while, but eventually all those combs will be as clean as a whistle.
LJ
Is residual pollen used by the bees, or just cleaned out and dumped?
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: little john on August 11, 2016, 07:27:35 AM
Quote from: tjc1 on August 10, 2016, 07:48:52 PM
Is residual pollen used by the bees, or just cleaned out and dumped?

Can't say for certain - I think a lot depends on whether it's usable or not.  Certainly dried-up pollen from the previous year is just cut-out and dumped on the floor as hard pellets, but I can't imagine them wasting such a valuable resource providing it were still usable.  All I can say for sure is that it's removed from the comb ... and goes somewhere !
LJ


Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: BeeMaster2 on August 11, 2016, 03:15:07 PM
A lot of the old pollen is capped over and if there is still room, they will place honey or , I have seen, brood over it.
Jim
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: MikeyN.C. on August 12, 2016, 08:02:05 PM
Sounds like it's worth an experment,please let us know !
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: little john on August 13, 2016, 08:14:56 AM
Much depends on the colony and box size.  Over on the Top Bar/ Long Hive sub-forum I've just answered the question "How do you keep brood out of combs ?", which might be relevant here ...

QuoteIf you have a single colony Long Hive (Top Bar or Framed) with the entrance at one end, then keeping brood out of the combs is straightforward, and yet many beekeepers don't do this.  'This' being the insertion into the comb array of a close-fitting partition (so-called 'follower') board with the bottom two inches cut off.  This board will effectively act as a queen excluder.

Where to place the board is a matter of judgement. Certainly, combs on the queenless side of the board will eventually be cleared of brood, but what happens to them afterwards depends on the colony and box size.  With a relatively small colony in a large box, those combs will be simply be cleared and left as clean as a whistle.  If the colony is large relative to the box size, then they will be used as stores combs and filled with honey.

I trust that will suitably muddy the waters ...  :grin:
LJ
Title: Re: old black brood frames
Post by: Acebird on August 13, 2016, 08:44:05 AM
Quote from: tjc1 on August 10, 2016, 07:48:52 PM
Is residual pollen used by the bees, or just cleaned out and dumped?
Most likely the pollen will be trashed unless it was an active brood frame.  But it wouldn't be an active brood frame if you were extracting and cleaning up.  Pollen does not keep even if it is sealed like honey does.  Last year's pollen will never be used in this year's growing season.