Hi Guys :) So I received another call about removing some bees out of an attic. I haven't yet seen it nor talked to the guy, but they're up in a ceiling. I am NOT doing thAt again for free! lol so I wonder what is a good price to charge? Do you have a base price? I'm talking bee removal only. No structural repair. Does it depend...on what?
Yvonne,
Minimum $250 for an easy job. $400 for one that is hard to work, hard to get to. Try to get a good idea of what you are getting into before you quote a price.
$400 minimum for commercial property.
Jim
Ok Thanks Jim. That sounds good. I was thinking $250 at a minimum. I just talked to him and I'll take my hubby's snake camera over there on Sunday and take a look. They're in a back corner under the eaves behind some old roof part lol
Base price of 300. Includes first 4 hours.
100 per hour after 4 quoted, but I seldom add that.
100 extra if they have been sprayed.
100 if I use my scaffolding.
100 extra if I go up in a bucket truck they hire.
There may be other extras after I see the job.
Holy moly iddee that adds up. What makes them want to spend that much money to get the nest removed rather than just trying to seal it themselves? What do you tell them? My guy sounds like he's been trying all summer and realized they'll just find another way unless the whole thing is removed.
The last one I know tried it, and it worked. They all died and it only cost him 3800 to replace the sheetrock, insulation, etc. after 50lb. of honey came seeping through.
i charge between 300- 600.00 depends on what is needed. if i need scafoling they supply or charge the cost for it upfront. no repairs involved because not a contractor.
john
I am in the $250 range as well...I tell em my fee is $75 an hour with a 3 hour minimum (250).....if they balk and want a solid number its minimum $500 :-)
But like Jim said depends on the complexity of the job....don't be afraid to walk away. If they get confrontational or come off as cheap its better to turn tail and run and not deal with the problems that are guaranteed at the end of the job.
I'd charge whatever you want. You know what it takes - all day discomfort and hard work. Explain that if they try to seal it up themselves, that honey is not going to stay put and it will draw a lot of other insects before it comes through the drywall. They can pay you now and get it taken care of by a pro, or they can pay later and have four times the mess.
After doing it myself once, I wouldn't charge less than $500. If it goes well and fast, you can always come down a bit in price at the end of the day.
Get a contract. It'll save you in a lawsuit - I'd think.
Thanks for the info guys. My husband is going to look into putting me on his contractors insurance. What about it being so late in the season? They most likely won't make it, right? The homeowner mentioned that they would hibernate soon and won't bite anyone anymore. lol He had been stung 4 times and has renters in that house. Because of that, I would think, it would be best to get rid of them now. For the bees though, it would be better to let them bee until spring and then cut out, no? It seems like a lot of people are into "what's good for the bees" these days, as even this home owner proved.
I have quit doing cutouts for the season. I won't take on a job again until spring. The bees won't make it, so why work that hard if they are going to die anyway? I don't do it for the money. I do it for the bees and the bee PR.
MT Bee Girl, another advantage of a contract is you both have a written understanding in front of you.
im with iddee :cry:. its to late in season to do removals. :cry: I got a call today for a removal. told them to late to do removal this year. they said they dont care they want them out. i cant do it anyhow because of my arm so i have them calling another beek that does wildlife removal for a living. hes small time busness and it supports him and his family. he may be able to get them thru the winter because we dont get much snow. and iff he needs to he can get frames of honey for them from me sence i am not pulling hone this fall. alot in doning removals is location. south ga. do them 11 months a year. here where i am in middle ga. i can do removals 9-10 months a year. it depends on your temp averages and best guess on the coming winter. they expect a warrm one here this year.but just west in alb. they get alot colder and more snow and on the same lontit;ude.
john
It occurs to me that there are two issues here.
1. The removal of the hive/honey. [Can be done any time, dependent on the urgent need of the homeowner]
2. The rescue and relocation of the bees. [Can be done only in spring/summer to give them a chance to build up and survive the winter.
As beeks we tend to focus on #2, but #1 is significant, too.
I know I'd be direct and explain the two issues to the homeowner and ask which is more important to them. Do they want the bees OUT more than they care about the rescue? Then do the removal regardless of time of year.
If they want to rescue the bees more than get them out, then wait. But explain those consequences, too.
Some beeks will only want to do rescues and wouldn't consider a removal without rescue. Others [including myself] would do a removal even if it meant losing the bees - as long as everybody understands the options and consequences and is on the same page.
I charge a max of 250.00 for a removal, most of the time about 200.00 I want to save the bees and charge a reasonable price keeping in mind the homeowner repair cost. Once the price starts getting over 250.00 in my area I start to see people looking at other options. plus I think that is what a removal is worth. Once in a while there might be a extra big or hard one, but most removals only take a couple hours.
I wish removals only took a cople hours. to me a properr removal takes time. it can average about 6-8 hours not including travel time. for me. pllus the pre inspection . I take my time to make sure what i;m cutting. last thing you want to do is start cuting and find a hot wire hidden in wall that should not be there. or a copper water line. plus after doing the cutout it it can take a hour allow just cleaning out the cavity and the work area. I dont give a per hour rate to the customer but i base it on a average of 50.00 per hour.
john
Well I went and met with the home owner today. We tried to see with my camera but the hole he drilled was awkward and the angle didn't allow me to see anything. I explained to him that it was very late in the season, etc, but just by hearing him and his wife, I could tell they've had enough and just want them out. I told them I would do either. Wait and do it in the spring or get it done now. I do have resources I can give them plus what I cut out and told them I'd give the bees a good fighting chance if he wanted to do it now. It sounds like now is what they'd prefer so I'll do it.
So when you're done,...you basically just remove the bees and let the home owner take care of any hole plugging and such?
Also, as gsf suggests, I think a contract wouldn't bee a bad idea. Does anyone by chance have a generic contract you would be willing to share? Or what would be some important things a contract should state?
I tell them the bees are worth 100 dollars, so I charge 100 more this time of year than I do in the spring because I can't save the bees without spending 100 on them to get them through the winter.
I have been doing removals for 40 years and have never had a contract. If I felt I needed one with a particular customer, I would just walk away and not do it for any price.
Quote from: iddee on September 25, 2016, 10:23:29 PM
I tell them the bees are worth 100 dollars, so I charge 100 more this time of year than I do in the spring because I can't save the bees without spending 100 on them to get them through the winter.
I have been doing removals for 40 years and have never had a contract. If I felt I needed one with a particular customer, I would just walk away and not do it for any price.
Spoken like a man whose word is his bond, but what aboit the scoundrel who talks a good game but turns on you afterward, like certain people running for president and her husband have done? Then there's lots of work for my former profrssion. Ever heard the saying among lawyers that a town that can't support a lawyer can support two?
I've heard a contract is only as good as the lawyer backing it. Otherwise, it doesn't even make good toilet paper. Better to be without a contract if you don't have the better lawyer of the two in the courtroom.
Better yet, have no ins. and few assets, and no lawyer will go after you. It's not worth his time if you don't have a million and no ins. He can't spend an unpaid judgement.
Iddee, you are absolutely correct. I once had a gun dealer for a client who shot two armed robbers, one fatally and one with a bullet through the spine. The injured robber's family contacted a plaintiff's attorney who called me. When I informed him that my client's business establishment was also his home and that he was not insured because it was paid for free and clear and because no one could require it to be insured, it was protected from judgement as his homestead, nothing more was heard of the matter.
It pays to have a really good lawyer who'll come out at night to protect your interests, but it's better to have one with a client who has all his ducks in a row before the need for the lawyer comes up.
hay Dallas. how boards you on. you could make for a great retainer. had cousin's both where international board. ( all fifty states,Europe,and Asia and South America. both dead now.
john
I wish. Lots of money in being on boards, but I retired 26 years ago and want no part of any of that. After I retired, I became a Master Gardener and then added beekeeping to my "work" load and those things and travelling keep me going..
Lol ok thanks for the discussion on contacts.
What about weather wise. It's going to be in the low 50's and dreary outside so they'll most likely be inside. Will they be more aggressive? The home owner also talked about a 2' crawl space filled with insulation I'd access them through which opens up towards the gable end. This has me baffled after thinking about it. From my experience, there are rafters up there and should be pretty open. I'm leaning towards doing a pre inpection like John mentioned to see what's really going on and how much space I'll have. I mean, I do need room to move and have room for my equipment...i don't THINK I'm claustrophobic...it just sounds tight. lol
I think that's a good idea about the extra $100 like iddee said.
MT Bee Girl, sorry aboit hijacking your string.
How old is this place, which brings the next question -- what kind of insulation? When inspecting, have your husband check that insulation. It could be bad stuff, particularly in an older structure. Remember, too, you'll be wearing a bee suit and two feet could get real tight and there could be things to get snagged on.
lol that's ok. That's what my husband said too. Butte has a lot of old houses but this one is on the flats and those are a bit newer. It looks to be from about the 70's but that's a good point about the type of insulation.
I never do one without a prior inspection. Where is the plumbing, wiring, second and third walls stacked from old remodels, etc. Know what you are getting into before starting.
DON'T BE AFRAID TO WALK AWAY.
Well it's a good thing I did a pre inspection cuz the bees weren't where he thought they are. lol I'm pretty sure they're in the soffit of the roof and and possibly even partly down the outside wall behind the siding and need to access them from outside. I took my stethoscope and listened for them and I'm pretty sure they're there. Although I'm not 100% certain. And of course I didn't think of knocking on the soffit until I was driving home after work. lol He is very hesitant to rip things apart. Would you guys please share some ways you locate the nest in a wall or soffit or ceiling without having infra red or thermal technology?
Buy a $20 laser thermometer from amazon, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BV0YMH4?psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BV0YMH4?psc=1)zap the walls till the temps rise. it should be part of your cutout tools. keep the beam as close to the wall as possible for accurate readings. it works.
You can buy one of those cameras on a flexable tube. You can then remove a piece of trim, drill a 1/2" or 3/4" hole where the trim was and verify where they are before you start cutting. You can also just drill a hole and plug it back up with caulking.
I had one that when I inserted the probe through the outside wall, all I saw was insulation. I went inside and removed the crown molding drilled the hole and found that they were in the ceiling behind the insulation. I then went upstairs and did the removal through the floor.
Jim
Quote from: MimbresBees on September 29, 2016, 11:49:21 PM
Buy a $20 laser thermometer from amazon, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BV0YMH4?psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BV0YMH4?psc=1)zap the walls till the temps rise. it should be part of your cutout tools. keep the beam as close to the wall as possible for accurate readings. it works.
That's great! Thank you! I will order it today.
Jim, I do have one of those cameras and he drilled a hole but same here. All I saw was insulation. There is not much trim to remove on this place. I'll go back and try to knock I guess.
Added: ok, I ordered it so at least I'll have it for next time. My husband also said they work great but he doesn't have one.
So just an update...our weather has definitely turned and will only be in the 40's or low 50's and it's snowing just a 1000' higher up. I told the homeowner that it's too late. I can't remove them in that weather without them being extremely pissy and being so cold, they'll have a very slim chance of long term survival. (Is that even true? lol I'm just thinking about having their nest open for hours and the stress of removal.) Had he called me a month ago I could have at least combined them with my own hives. Anyway, I'm still getting that laser thermometer and I told him I'd at least stop by and get a heat signature so he'd know exactly where they are. (He's just a few blocks from my work, so it's really no big deal.) The home owner is fine with that and also waiting until spring.
On another note, some of you have said not to be afraid to just walk away from a job. How do you tell someone you refuse to do a removal without feeling bad inside? lol I know of no one else in my area that does removals and only know of one other beekeeper with 5 hives that only will catch swarms. I understand it's not really my problem but what do you SAY? lol
""I understand it's not really my problem ""
You answered your own question. If a man dieing from starvation says he won't eat potatoes, he wants steak, let him die.
If the home owner makes you uncomfortable, get away. Your inner self is smarter than your outer self.
Mt Bee girl, You're right. Long term exposure to those temps would kill the brood. There's no telling how much honey would be lost in the removal. Plus the nest cavity would be reduced with holes all through it because of rubber banding. Sounds like a good call to me.
Quote from: MT Bee Girl on October 04, 2016, 12:35:50 PM
... but what do you SAY?
I'd say that I've looked over things carefully and at this time I can't do the kind of job that I want to do. If I find someone else who can do the job, I'll be sure to let them know.
Quote from: GSF on October 04, 2016, 02:30:40 PM
Mt Bee girl, You're right. Long term exposure to those temps would kill the brood. There's no telling how much honey would be lost in the removal. Plus the nest cavity would be reduced with holes all through it because of rubber banding. Sounds like a good call to me.
What it comes down to is that a large part of you doing a removal job is getting back a package/nuc of bees - you charge a couple hundred bucks
and a couple pounds of bees/comb/etc.
If you're doing it too late in the year, you're not getting bees as partial payment - so either the cash price should be higher, or the job just isn't worth it.
Thank you guys! I REALLY appreciate how helpful everyone here is!
Just be an honest business person, and be forward in command of the situation, straight up tell them it's not a job you wish to perform. Then suggest that they to place an ad on craigslist. If you are having feelings that make you uncomfortable, do it by email or phone, this way you don't have to confront a angry person. or as a last resort, don't answer the phone or their emails to you.
Easy enough. Don't fret over the small stuff. It won't hurt you in the long term.
Great advice everyone. Thank you so much!
Mimbresbees, I LOVE that temerature sensor gun! Thank you for telling me about it! It is going to be a fun tool to have this winter. I can totally tell where they're clustering tonight. I was gauging everything around my house and yard today. I love it! :)