I have watched several videos and done some reading but everyone has their own opinion on should you spray, shake, or put on a board that keeps the bees from going back up top. What is your preferred way?
I got to where I use a spray (bee-quick?). I spray it on a piece of plywood and place it on the top super. I lift the super, look underneath for swarm/queen cells, remove the super, put inner cover or political sign on the hive, take the frames out one by one, then place them in an empty super that I also cover to keep robbers out.
THanks. As of now I was just going to do the shake method but I don't want to hurt or piss them off more than I have to.
I start with a fume board with an empty box on top of it. As I pull individual frames, I shake the bees off and add to empty box that I cover with a spare inner cover. The fume board will drive out any remaining bees that I don't get off when I shake the frame. This works for me right now. The most I've pulled at one time has been three full boxes. I don't know how well it would work for someone that is removing dozens of boxes at a time.
Fume board with one of the nice smelling products :shocked:
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 03, 2017, 10:28:54 AM
As of now I was just going to do the shake method but I don't want to hurt or piss them off more than I have to.
I use to do the shake, brush, flail the frame around while you try to get it in a box and close it off before more bees fly in but no more. Wait for a cool night in the forecast and put on a bee escape. Take the super off the next day before it gets warm again. Fume or blower is a method used by those that have a lot of hives to do.
If you are like me not getting into the hives on a regular basis the frames get propolised in to where they are hard to get out. That makes the shake and brush routine more of a big deal. Burr comb gets stuff with honey so it is a sticky mess breaking frames free and trying to get them in another box without bees. If you do meddle in the hive a lot then the frames break free much easier and you won't have honey spilling all over the place. Once you get honey all over the frame the ten thousand bees that are in the air head right for the frames. Brushing spreads honey over the sealed cells and sticks to the brush. Then you have bees attaching themselves to the brush. And now when you try to use the brush they get pissy.
Thanks. I will probably do the spray and bee escape. Anyone got some recommendation on some products?
The easiest method that I have found is a leaf blower. Place the super on its side and blow the bees out. Works very quickly!
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 03, 2017, 02:57:15 PM
Thanks. I will probably do the spray and bee escape. Anyone got some recommendation on some products?
No need to use an escape...just a fume baord. You can make one from a top...
https://www.mannlakeltd.com/fischer-s-bee-quick-sup-reg-sup-8-oz-24-l
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/m00136-honey-b-gone
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Natural-Honey-Harvester/productinfo/474/
Stay away from the vomit smelling stuff--- Honey Robber- Bee Go
Quote from: sc-bee on March 03, 2017, 04:17:29 PM
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 03, 2017, 02:57:15 PM
Thanks. I will probably do the spray and bee escape. Anyone got some recommendation on some products?
No need to use an escape...just a fume baord. You can make one from a top...
https://www.mannlakeltd.com/fischer-s-bee-quick-sup-reg-sup-8-oz-24-l
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/m00136-honey-b-gone
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Natural-Honey-Harvester/productinfo/474/
Stay away from the vomit smelling stuff--- Honey Robber- Bee Go
What is a fume board?
I use straight almond extract with a little tea tree oil in a spray bottle on a fume borad. to make one make a 3/4 inch frme the size of a bee hive box. attach felt or thin cotton material to it. spray a few spots on the material ( not alot) then lay it on the top of the open hive so that the corners are open then walk away for about 5-10 mins. the bees will move off the honey but not the brood. then just remove the super or the frames you want.
john
The best thing I have found is bee-go.
It smells, but the pleasant smelling ones have not worked worth a darn for me.
Quote from: splitrock on March 04, 2017, 07:39:35 AM
The best thing I have found is bee-go.
It smells, but the pleasant smelling ones have not worked worth a darn for me.
It depends on outside temps. I have had good luck with all three of the ones I listed. Heck I would rather shake a few left over bees than smell the puke.....
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 03, 2017, 04:31:35 PM
What is a fume board?
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/honey-harvesting/m00681-fume-pad-assembled-c-1-10-frame
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 03, 2017, 04:31:35 PM
What is a fume board?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPI4y5d9hu0
Why isn't the top painted black. I would think the metal surface would reflect the heat not absorb it.
Quote from: Acebird on March 04, 2017, 02:39:00 PM
Why isn't the top painted black. I would think the metal surface would reflect the heat not absorb it.
He is probably gonna put it back in stock :wink: Just kidding. I have one painted and I think one not. At honey harvest time here in SC and NC no need to worry about panting it black when temps hover in the 90's. Demo was in NC...
I stand the super on end and use a blower to evacuate the bees
Mick
Mick, Does the blower stir/upset the bees much and do the bees end up on the ground? just wondering as it sounds like a much quicker option but I like the idea of keeping them calm if I can.
Kev
Quote from: SlickMick on March 04, 2017, 05:03:11 PM
I stand the super on end and use a blower to evacuate the bees
Mick
If you have house bees on the comb, they'll never make it back to the hive, right?
Thanks for all th help guys. I am going to use the fume board and smelling stuff plus shake if necessary
If you are shaking, brushing, blowing no matter what all the flying bees are going to be in the air. You are reeking havoc on the hive which is their home. I have never done a fume board but at least it evacuates the super of bees so when you take it away it is not a big upset. What I object to about a fume board is that if the smell is so repugnant to the bees should that chemical be in the hive, even for a short time?
The process of robbing the hive is always going to be disruptive to the colony, I agree. My thoughts are that using a fume board is at least as disruptive as anything else, even an escape board as it still requires lifting a super and a second visit to the hive. I never found them to be all that successful. I also agree that there will be lots of bees in the air. Perhaps taking a couple of frames from the top super at a time is the least disruptive, more so than taking full supers.
I find that I do lose some bees onto the ground but by placing the super (Half depth) so the air flow is directed over the open hive most are blown onto the the top of the frames in the box below. My 2 hives are placed back to back so I am working on top of either one hive or the other. Smoking before blowing pushes them to the other end of the super where it doesn't take much air to dislodge them but you still end up with a few bees still on the frames.
I can't say that they are always happy about the process but their reaction doesn't seem to be much different from opening up the brood box and pulling frames. I use a QE above the brood box so I am pulling honey and not interfering with the brood other than lifting the super.
Mick
It is not an option everywhere but for me I can harvest in the fall. That guarantees cool / cold nights. With the escape board the bees go down to the brood nest at night to cluster. They can't get back up to the supers the next morning because of the escape board. I have pulled supers off with no bees at all in the super above. They have no idea I am taking the supers away and there are very little if any bees flying. I made a hive box jack to slip the escape board in between supers. This also happens with very few bees flying. The only negative is it requires and overnight to make it happen. I can live with that.
Quote from: Acebird on March 04, 2017, 10:45:14 PM
It is not an option everywhere but for me I can harvest in the fall. That guarantees cool / cold nights. With the escape board the bees go down to the brood nest at night to cluster. They can't get back up to the supers the next morning because of the escape board. I have pulled supers off with no bees at all in the super above. They have no idea I am taking the supers away and there are very little if any bees flying. I made a hive box jack to slip the escape board in between supers. This also happens with very few bees flying. The only negative is it requires and overnight to make it happen. I can live with that.
Not very good advice if you have a lot of SHB around. If you want you can paint the top of the fume board black. Something to remember most all beekeeping advice. Is very local depending on the location location location....
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
I built an excape board this winter. My hive bodies have new entrances opening in them all the time due to pore workmanship and I bet when I use the excape board, I make it easy for the robbers. I did build one though. I will probly try it and have a little tape handy for the seams and holes.
I have a blower if that doesn't work. I am not sure where to extract and keep the bees out and also not get the prosses too dirty. My garage is a mess always and I have a little green house kinda set up on the back of my house and a car garage attached to the house and there is always the kitchen. Not trying to take this thread off too far but I would be interested in where you guys do your extraction also.
If not in the kitchen, are a couple of wet rags and a bucket of water enough to get the job done?
Thanks
gww
Quote from: gww on March 05, 2017, 12:37:15 AM
My hive bodies have new entrances opening in them all the time due to pore workmanship and I bet when I use the excape board, I make it easy for the robbers.
gww
gww if you deliberately put a upper and lower entrance in your hives that the bees can defend they will patch up your poor workmanship way before it comes time to harvest. In order to use an escape board you have to close off any other entry point to the box or it doesn't work. There will never be a small hive beetle problem during harvest unless there was one to start with.
thats why I use almond extract with teatree oil. all natural. it may take 10min to move them down but thats time to place fume boards on the other hives the go back and remove the super. just don't appliy to much. light mist on the felt in several places is all it takes. plus it smells great . when doing this it does not upset the hive. but don't use alot because that will push most of the bees out the entrrance and can push them offf brood. doing it whenit's cool can chill the brood. (that's what I like about the fume boards because it wont move the bees off the brood.).
john
Quote from: divemaster1963 on March 03, 2017, 08:48:02 PM
I use straight almond extract with a little tea tree oil in a spray bottle on a fume borad.
john
What is a little? Drops? Let's use a 8 oz bottle as a reference....
Quote from: Acebird on March 04, 2017, 09:36:30 PM
What I object to about a fume board is that if the smell is so repugnant to the bees should that chemical be in the hive, even for a short time?
repugnant.... I think you missed something here ....Ace. Ummm, I guess when you use a smoker it is repugnant and the bees may leave :wink: Guess we can over think anything... right :smile:
Quote from: sc-bee on March 05, 2017, 10:18:23 AM
Quote from: divemaster1963 on March 03, 2017, 08:48:02 PM
I use straight almond extract with a little tea tree oil in a spray bottle on a fume borad.
john
What is a little? Drops? Let's use a 8 oz bottle as a reference....
I get the 8 ouch bottle of pure almond extract from wally world then add 10 drops tea tree oil to the bottle and add a sprayer pump on to the bottle. spray two sprays two the four corners of the fume board and two in the middle. that is enough to use. you just want to have a misted areaa not wet fume board.
john
Oh and shake the bottle up before and during use. the tea tree oil does not always mix well and will speratein the bottle. keep it in cool when not using. it will go bad and lose streaght.
Thanks dm...
Quote from: Acebird on March 05, 2017, 08:38:48 AM
gww if you deliberately put a upper and lower entrance in your hives that the bees can defend they will patch up your poor workmanship way before it comes time to harvest. In order to use an escape board you have to close off any other entry point to the box or it doesn't work. There will never be a small hive beetle problem during harvest unless there was one to start with.
Over the last couple years. There are places in New England that are getting intrenched with SHB.. Just be very aware what's going on in your area.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:.
If you are going to use a leaf blower then you need to be using a queen excluder.
I there is brood in the super there will be young nurse bees that may not have been out of the hive and not orientated on the hive. So they may be lost to the original hive.
We use bee escapes and for the persistent ones they get the leaf blower. For some dumb reason it doesn't seem to upset the bees, walked past a super on its end as my partner hit it with the leaf blower, shower of bees but no stings.
The secret of bee escapes is cold nights to get the bees to move down and then go to pick up the supers at day break while it is still cool. Some smoke down the escape holes allows you to get the bee escape off and lid on without too much fuss.
Biggest day with bee escapes and leaf blower, 120 supers and on the road home by 1:00 pm.
PS. 6:00 am start.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on March 07, 2017, 06:11:33 AM
If you are going to use a leaf blower then you need to be using a queen excluder.
I there is brood in the super there will be young nurse bees that may not have been out of the hive and not orientated on the hive. So they may be lost to the original hive.
We use bee escapes and for the persistent ones they get the leaf blower. For some dumb reason it doesn't seem to upset the bees, walked past a super on its end as my partner hit it with the leaf blower, shower of bees but no stings.
The secret of bee escapes is cold nights to get the bees to move down and then go to pick up the supers at day break while it is still cool. Some smoke down the escape holes allows you to get the bee escape off and lid on without too much fuss.
Biggest day with bee escapes and leaf blower, 120 supers and on the road home by 1:00 pm.
PS. 6:00 am start.
How cool of a day are we talking about? I am leaning towards the bee escape.
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 07, 2017, 09:34:07 AM
How cool of a day are we talking about? I am leaning towards the bee escape.
Probably too cold for you to bee able to use a bee escape, I built 2 but cannot use them here. They leave the combs unprotected from the SHB's.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on March 07, 2017, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 07, 2017, 09:34:07 AM
How cool of a day are we talking about? I am leaning towards the bee escape.
Probably too cold for you to bee able to use a bee escape, I built 2 but cannot use them here. They leave the combs unprotected from the SHB's.
So what do you use?
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 07, 2017, 09:34:07 AM
How cool of a day are we talking about? I am leaning towards the bee escape.
It is guaranteed if your overnight gets down to 47 because they have to cluster but it also may work up in the 52ish range. With brood in the brood box they have to keep it at 92 so most will go down. I did not have good luck when I first tried my escape in the late spring. I think the bees stay in the supers at night during heavy flows to dry down the honey. But for a fall harvest they work wonders.
Yeah that wont work here. I will probably do the brush off and just pull a few frames at a time or the smell bad stuff.
That would be why I've never had any success with escapes. In over 40 years we've never had a frost, and the lowest we seem to get to is around 45f. No need for the girls to cluster or for me to take honey. Our overnight last night was in the mid 60's.
Mick
At 43 degrees a lot of my bees/scouts are flying.
I have used a beebrush. Took 3 weeks for the bees to calm down enough to let anyone else walk in the back yard.
I like bee quick and a fume board. Works pretty well on supers to move the bees down.
Jim
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 07, 2017, 04:51:28 PM
I will probably do the brush off and just pull a few frames at a time or the smell bad stuff.
Shake first to get most of them off before you brush.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on March 07, 2017, 05:15:04 PM
I have used a beebrush. Took 3 weeks for the bees to calm down enough to let anyone else walk in the back yard.
There is a technique to flinging that brush so it doesn't just roll over the bees. BW check out some videos before you try and practice a little in the air.
Thanks everyone.
I am thinking I will also use the fume board and looking it up will use bee quick because it is non toxic. Do bees always get so angry when they are robbed of their honey? I only ask because my bees are also in my garden area and I will be robbing at the same time that I am probably planting
I often remove honey in a t-shirt and trousers. With the Bee Quick and shaking the hang ons back over the hive they do not mind.
What they do not like is doing it during a dearth because within minutes of opening the hive, the robbing starts and they all get very pissy.
Jim
After reading heaps of posts, and being a believer in bee escapes I have finally worked out why they work for us in Australia and not so well for the US.
It is in the technique or process of honey removal. It is not temp as 50-60f would be fine.
OK, we run 8 frame full depth, hives and supers. If we have a hive with a Qx and a full super of honey on top and we want to take the honey off.
Take lid off, take super of honey off, add new super with empty frames (stickies or new), place bee escape on the new super then put the super with honey on the bee escape, shake bees out of lid in front of entrance (less to go through bee escape) and put lid back.
Next day go back and take super of honey, little squirt of smoke down bee escape holes and remove bee escape and add lid.
The difference is we what we call undersuper with space for the bees to go to.
Interesting ... I have not tried that. If I should want to harvest in warmer weather I will try that.
What is your plan for the second super?
The plan for the second super is for the bees to fill it with honey.
if we are on a good honey flow and the bees start with stickies, they should fill the second super in couple of weeks, then repeat the honey removal process.
We extract at home and shift our bees to follow the blossom, which may require many shifts.
For US BK's reverse the season, late July,take bees to almond pollination, 340k's, bring back to canola, 340k's, take to salvation Jane, 80k's, take to blackberries 140k's, take to Red Gum 130k's (failed to get much honey), take to Grey Box 90k's. All that in 7-8 months.
Need a big yield off the Grey box to finish the season and carry some honey into the winter.
We wonder if we are bee keepers or bee truckies.
OK I didn't realize that this was during a massive flow. It is quite common here that the bees don't cap the honey in a massive flow. Do you take the honey anyway and wave you magic wand for moisture content?
We still wait for them to cap the honey, this will occur as the frames fill'
Our eucalypt honey can be taken with a few frames 75% capped, it tends to dry any way as we have day time temp of 90f.
We put bee escapes on today (Friday) to take the honey off Sunday, early. We did about 40 supers.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on March 10, 2017, 06:07:18 AM
We still wait for them to cap the honey, this will occur as the frames fill'
Our eucalypt honey can be taken with a few frames 75% capped, it tends to dry any way as we have day time temp of 90f.
We put bee escapes on today (Friday) to take the honey off Sunday, early. We did about 40 supers.
If I did that here and started extracting on Monday, all of the supers so be starting to ooz slime and the honey would bee un usable.
Jim
ditto here. SHB are quick to move into unguard supers. you can't even store supers in hot houses unless they are sealed up so the SHB can't get to them.
john
WE don't have SHB issues bad as that,we would only see 2 or 3 per hive if we take a hive apart looking for the queen. Plus we do no control at all, squash if seen is the only management.
Some hives have none.....but if a super is neglected they seem to know and will accumulate.
May be our climate is too dry big SHB problems, or our vented hives are not liked by SHB.