My son is 18 months and a week old. I have read in places not to give raw honey to anyone under one and somewhere I also read not to give it to them under 2. When we eat food that calls for a syrup type stuff I have substituted in real maple syrup for honey. My question is does anyone have a definitive answer on this?
Honey is a raw food. Any raw food can contain botulism spores. Infants development an immunity to a certain amount of botulism during their first, and maybe longer, year. No raw food should be given to an infant before they develop this immunity.
Quote from: iddee on March 27, 2017, 10:13:11 AM
Honey is a raw food. Any raw food can contain botulism spores. Infants development an immunity to a certain amount of botulism during their first, and maybe longer, year. No raw food should be given to an infant before they develop this immunity.
When is this typically reached?
Usually by 2.
Most of the world through most of time has had feeding a newborn honey as a ritual with no one noticing any ill effects that were blamed on honey. For centuries the standard "formula" for a baby when breast milk was not available was milk mixed with honey. But yes, infants are more susceptible to botulism due to the lack of acidity in their gut while drinking nothing but milk. The recommendation used to be not to feed them raw food until after six months. They keep pushing it out with no research to back it up that I've been able to find.
Quote from: Michael Bush on March 27, 2017, 04:51:24 PM
Most of the world through most of time has had feeding a newborn honey as a ritual with no one noticing any ill effects that were blamed on honey. For centuries the standard "formula" for a baby when breast milk was not available was milk mixed with honey. But yes, infants are more susceptible to botulism due to the lack of acidity in their gut while drinking nothing but milk. The recommendation used to be not to feed them raw food until after six months. They keep pushing it out with no research to back it up that I've been able to find.
That is interesting. Why would they do that? To be on the safe side I will probably wait until 2.
Quote from: Michael Bush on March 27, 2017, 04:51:24 PM
They keep pushing it out with no research to back it up that I've been able to find.
It is kinda hard to do research using children in the study because it is illegal unless the child has a terminal illness. Surely each child will be different. I would suggest that those that are breast fed will get the immunity sooner. I would guess that botulism does happen in some children without knowing the source. I would not be in a hurry to give my children honey because of the rotting of the developing teeth.
Quote from: Acebird on March 27, 2017, 05:28:17 PM
Quote from: Michael Bush on March 27, 2017, 04:51:24 PM
They keep pushing it out with no research to back it up that I've been able to find.
It is kinda hard to do research using children in the study because it is illegal unless the child has a terminal illness. Surely each child will be different. I would suggest that those that are breast fed will get the immunity sooner. I would guess that botulism does happen in some children without knowing the source. I would not be in a hurry to give my children honey because of the rotting of the developing teeth.
It would be his only source of added sugar and we brush his teeth. Maple syrup is just expensive
A good habit to get into is drink plain water or rinse your mouth out after you have something sugar to get rid of the acid that decays teeth.
Thanks. I might do that for myself also.
Keep in mind when you place raw honey in your mouth, it kills the bacteria, when you place sugar in your mouth, you feed the bacteria that causes tooth decay.
Jim
When my eldest child was an infant, there were no worries about giving honey to babies. People did it all the time. So did I with no ill effects.
Fast forward to the youngest 6 years later.... "Never give honey to a baby under 1 year old. After that it's ok" was the pediatrician's advice. Ok, no problem. She got honey on some toast for her 1st birthday breakfast. 26 years later, she's still alive.
Of course, living dangerously is in my genes. I rode my bike without a helmet and went all day without using hand sanitizer. :shocked:
hops
QuoteOf course, living dangerously is in my genes. I rode my bike without a helmet and went all day without using hand sanitizer.
X2
gww
Quote from: Hops Brewster on March 29, 2017, 12:50:41 PM
When my eldest child was an infant, there were no worries about giving honey to babies. People did it all the time. So did I with no ill effects.
Fast forward to the youngest 6 years later.... "Never give honey to a baby under 1 year old. After that it's ok" was the pediatrician's advice. Ok, no problem. She got honey on some toast for her 1st birthday breakfast. 26 years later, she's still alive.
Of course, living dangerously is in my genes. I rode my bike without a helmet and went all day without using hand sanitizer. :shocked:
As did I but when it comes to him I am just trying to make sure because I have a crazy ex wife who is already violating a court order that is less than 6 months old. Can't be to careful with crazy ex wives.
I don't really think she is crazy. I am just saying crazy ex wife as in the way all people call their ex's crazy. In a joking kinda way. I think she is a competent mother and that is all that matters now.
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 29, 2017, 01:49:21 PM
Can't be to careful with crazy ex wives.
You only have one? Maybe you are still young and foolish.
One is enough for most men.
Quote from: Acebird on March 29, 2017, 08:14:19 PM
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 29, 2017, 01:49:21 PM
Can't be to careful with crazy ex wives.
You only have one? Maybe you are still young and foolish.
I will never marry again.
I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but I did play a Cavalry officer in a Jr. High play...
If you want latest medical advice, ask the pediatrician. Their recommendations change all the time.
As far as dealing with the ex, better safe than sorry. But I'm not a lawyer, either.
I hope the kid gets to have some honey before he develops a bunch of allergies.... just sayin'...
I wonder if pasteurization will kill off any spores?
Quote from: Hops Brewster on March 30, 2017, 11:28:44 AM
I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but I did play a Cavalry officer in a Jr. High play...
If you want latest medical advice, ask the pediatrician. Their recommendations change all the time.
As far as dealing with the ex, better safe than sorry. But I'm not a lawyer, either.
I hope the kid gets to have some honey before he develops a bunch of allergies.... just sayin'...
He eats most all other food and we have had no allergies yet.
Quote
I will never marry again.
I have heard people say that.
He eats most all other food and we have had no allergies yet.
[/quote]
Are any of them raw, such as banana or grapes, apples or carrots? If so, go ahead and feed him honey. Same gamble.
Quote from: herbhome on March 30, 2017, 11:44:55 AM
I wonder if pasteurization will kill off any spores?
Wouldn't that kill off the good stuff as well?
Quote from: iddee on March 30, 2017, 06:33:34 PM
He eats most all other food and we have had no allergies yet.
Are any of them raw, such as banana or grapes, apples or carrots? If so, go ahead and feed him honey. Same gamble.
[/quote]
Never fed him raw carrots and I have never fed him grapes at all but he has eaten a lot of different raw foods post one year of age. He loves a banana better than anything but second to that are strawberries. Well I just might next time he is here feed him honey. I take him to his mother today after work.
I use Ivermectin to worm my goats. There is a warning on the label not to consume any milk or meat for a set period of time(couple of weeks?). In a lot of third world countries they give Ivermectin directly to the patients who have parasites. go figure.
GSF,
That is some dangerous stuff. I use it on my cattle. A friend of mine got it on her hands while using it and waited a couple of minutes before washing it off. She was sick in bed for 3 days from an overdose.
Bee careful.
Jim
Quote from: bwallace23350 on March 31, 2017, 09:39:20 AM
Are any of them raw, such as banana or grapes, apples or carrots? If so, go ahead and feed him honey. Same gamble.
Those fruits are not the same as raw honey, the honey has the spores mixed in. Those fruits are solid assuming not pests have eaten a hole in them. All the fruits need are a good washing, something you can not do with honey.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 03, 2017, 07:29:54 PM
GSF,
That is some dangerous stuff. I use it on my cattle. A friend of mine got it on her hands while using it and waited a couple of minutes before washing it off. She was sick in bed for 3 days from an overdose.
Bee careful.
Jim
That is some serious stuff then. Hope she is doing better.
I am not educated enough to comment on that, Jeff, but, if you open a jar of home canned green beans and it shows signs of botulism, are you going to wash them well and eat them? I'm not.
Also, if you go to a "pick-your-own" strawberry farm, how well are they washed before the kids eat them? Unless they are prepared for freezing, or to put in a recipe, I doubt they ever get washed.