I was talking with a beekeeper locally to me the other day... hes said a guy around us has like 3,000 hives. He said they obviously do it commercially, BUT they use some kind of chemical or poison and put it in pump up garden sprayers... they just stick the wand in the hive entrance and spray the poison in the hives as they go...
Curious if anyone knows what they would be using?... he said it kills the SHB, but dont hurt the bees... HOWEVER, HOWEVER, I strongly assume whatever chimical they are spraying into the hives ends up mixed into the honey they produce...
And again on the other hand, at the right time of year before any honey is made, sounds like it could be a viable option for SHB treatments if it would had no effects and done with a withdraw period...
Just something that sparked my curiosity... the beekeeper said he had no idea what they were using, but had his doubts on the pure healthy organic honey after the treatments..
Anything that kills SHB will kill bees. The usual thing (which I won't do) is to put the poison in a piece of coroplast where the bees can't get to it but the SHB can. And when that goes badly, the entire colony usually dies... Of course any chemical in the hive ends up in the honey. Even if you only use it below the "magical" queen excluder... or with the supers off and then put the "magical" queen excluder on to keep it from moving into the supers...
Hmmm... maybe it was second hand exaggerated information... this guy has been keeping bees for 15 years that I talked to. I was apprehensive about the info he was telling me, thats why it sparked my curiosity...
Quote from: Michael Bush on April 25, 2017, 08:18:28 AM
Anything that kills SHB will kill bees. The usual thing (which I won't do) is to put the poison in a piece of coroplast where the bees can't get to it but the SHB can. And when that goes badly, the entire colony usually dies... Of course any chemical in the hive ends up in the honey. Even if you only use it below the "magical" queen excluder... or with the supers off and then put the "magical" queen excluder on to keep it from moving into the supers...
Good to know
I keep thinking a strain of BT can be developed to kill SHB and not bees. That innovation will require research money though.
Quote from: herbhome on April 25, 2017, 01:51:47 PM
I keep thing a strain of BT can be developed to kill SHB and not bees.
Poisons are poisons. Cigarettes don't kill everyone but they do kill some. It doesn't matter how much research is done on a poison people will still use it on their bees. Even when the harmful effects of using antibiotics are known beekeepers still what to use them uninhibited.
I wonder if he wasn't confusing acid treating for varroa
Quote from: splitrock on April 25, 2017, 06:25:30 PM
I wonder if he wasn't confusing acid treating for varroa
No.. i know that for sure.
Quote from: herbhome on April 25, 2017, 01:51:47 PM
I keep thinking a strain of BT can be developed to kill SHB and not bees. That innovation will require research money though.
That's what came to my mind. Would spraying BT on the bottom board kill SHB larva?
An oil tray under a screened bottom board will take care of both the beetles and their larva along with helping keep the mite load down. I think BT is specific to the species of larva it targets but I'm no expert on it.
QuoteAnything that kills SHB will kill bees.
Is this so hard to understand?
Quote from: Acebird on April 25, 2017, 09:14:59 PM
QuoteAnything that kills SHB will kill bees.
Is this so hard to understand?
Well.... although bees are insects and beetles are insects they are not the same. We have already proven that acids that kill mites do not kill bees. SHB is a problem-in some places a very big problem so it is understandable that keeps will continue to look for a chemical solution.
I say that but at the same time I am not a fan of chemical solutions-not in the least.
Quote from: herbhome on April 26, 2017, 02:50:31 AM
We have already proven that acids that kill mites do not kill bees.
This is the fallacy, all chemical solutions designed to kill have a negative effect on all life even yours. When it comes to chemical solutions the applicator must first read the directions, and understand the directions and then finally follow the directions. If the applicator is from the general public there will be a good percentage of them that will not do one or all of the three. Then the solution becomes very dangerous. I pray for the day that we would stop looking for chemical solutions.
> Would spraying BT on the bottom board kill SHB larva?
I know of no evidence that Bt works on SHB larva. There is a strain that works on mosquito larvae and one that works on moth larvae, but I know of none that works on beetle larvae. Could such a strain exist? Maybe...
>We have already proven that acids that kill mites do not kill bees.
Actually we don't. We have some that at a low level kill mites and damage bees and at higher levels kill both mites and bees.
Michael and Acebird,
I totally agree with your statements. I live off-grid, grow organic produce and live as low tech as possible. The internet is my guilty pleasure.
What I was referring to was human nature in a chemical quick fix culture. Folks want to believe that if you have a problem, just do this and problem solved. Got a sniffle, take this. Got a bug on your plant spray this.
You guys understand that nature is not that simple and every action has a reaction.
The environment of the hive is a complex environment and chemicals, acids, whatever introduced are bound to have an effect. For years keeps, scraped propolis out of hives and bred for low propolizing bees, only to discover the bees knew what they were doing all along.
I do not believe in any outside chemical in hive. SOOOO I have old carpet under my hive stands, is there any harm in using diatomaceous earth around the carpet for the few SHB larva that may escape the oil pan in the DSBB.
I tried using DE in my oil trays until I found the larvae living and hatching it. Now I just use it for my pool.
Jim
So far, no pests that I can see.
If I see Varroa, I will try vaporizing Oxalic acid.
I put a Joe May SHB trap in the bottom board.
Bruce
i don't even go out of my way to crush have beetles when i see them anymore. if the hive is healthy they aren't a big deal. i don't think most commercial beekeepers are worried about them.
QuoteI know of no evidence that Bt works on SHB larva. There is a strain that works on mosquito larvae and one that works on moth larvae, but I know of none that works on beetle larvae. Could such a strain exist? Maybe...
There are known strains of Bt that affect beetles. None have been commercialized to my knowledge.
> There are known strains of Bt that affect beetles.
Do you know what they are? Do you have any references I could read? It's the first I've heard of it.