IMHO, if you think your bees may be out of food, it is better to quickly slip them some food even if it is cold.
At what temperature would you not even give a second thought to popping the top for 10 seconds to check feed and possibly add a little?
Any temp., but I would even pull frames above 55 F. 13C.
Quote from: iddee on December 07, 2017, 01:01:45 PM
Any temp., but I would even pull frames above 55 F. 13C.
Agree. Is better to MAYBE get them cold then have them die needing food. If possible I would wait till the temp. is above 60 F and no wind if having them open more than a couple of minutes.
IF I thought they were starving, I would do whatever I needed to do. But if I did not think they were starving, I would wait until they are flying.
I agree with all above. I will add, if I shiver, it?s to cold to worry about the bees. As long as Van is toasty and warm, then it?s OK to open hives.
Blessings
Can't feed bees when it is cold.
Quote from: UrbisAgricola on December 07, 2017, 12:51:14 PM
IMHO, if you think your bees may be out of food, it is better to quickly slip them some food even if it is cold.
At what temperature would you not even give a second thought to popping the top for 10 seconds to check feed and possibly add a little?
Hmmm - imo, this doesn't add up.
With the top off - how are you going to check for stores - by pulling frames ? That's going to take a lot more than 10 seconds AND be a lot more intrusive. To check for stores most people heft - I don't, because all my hives have different tare weights.
So - I've made holes in all my Crown Boards, which are normally covered. I feed through these holes during autumn (fall) - then during mid-winter I place an inverted jar of fondant (preferred) or damp-set sugar over one hole as a 'fuel gauge'. Ok - so that feed is not actually resting on the frame top-bars which would be ideal - but it's only a few millimetres above them. I check these 'fuel gauges' once a week - regardless of temperature - and should any show signs of being used, I check those more frequently, and replace them as and when they become consumed. Which so far has been very rare.
This method has worked perfectly for several winters now - with zero colony loss - and has taken away any anxiety or guesswork.
LJ
For emergency feeding I would not go in the brood nest to check for stores. I just stack sugar bricks on
the top bars next to where the bees cluster. This way you will spend the minimum amount of
time exposing the bees. I usually stack 2-4 rows of sugar bricks so that I don't have to inspect them
that often.
For what it's worth, I'm talking about peeking in to look at the level of food in a feeder. I'm on the Gulf Coast so we don't have much of a problem feeding when it is cold. We do a problem with the alternation of warm and cold periods (I was in 80 day before yesterday and snowed this morning--first time in about 12 years). The bees get all cranked up making babies during a warm spell and will eat all their stores then it goes back to being cold.
Quote from: UrbisAgricola on December 08, 2017, 11:14:08 AM
For what it's worth, I'm talking about peeking in to look at the level of food in a feeder.
Presumably that's a frame-feeder ? I made one once with a 'dip-stick' which was inserted through a small hole (normally closed) in the crown-board/ inner cover - but it turned out to be not such a smart idea in practice. Maybe it's a method which could work ok if some design effort was put into it ...
LJ
Off topic (but hey, it's my post so maybe that's okay. LOL). I have played around with a number of ways to feed bees, but don't have one that I have really found best. I do my best not to feed so I really have not done it enough to form much of an opinion. As it happens, what I plan to do with two hives is an inverted bottle through a hole in the top. It has worked for me before. All I have to do is pop the cover off, and replace it with a cover that has a hole, then stick the bottle in the hole. If I remember I'll take a picture, but I have a hole and then a piece of thick lumber with a larger hole on top of that to form a better base. The thick board is nailed with one nail so if I don't need to feed, I can remove the bottle, then tun the piece of wood to cover the hole.
Here is a follow up question for you, Little John (or anybody): the above has worked like magic as far as I can tell using a plastic 1 liter bottle but I don't know if it drips a tad whne the air pressure chnages with morning and evening temp changes. Do you think a glass 40 oz beer bottle would be more or less likely to drip when the air pressure changes?
But anyway, the question above what mainly just to get perspectives on when people feel comfortable popping a top.
Quote from: UrbisAgricola on December 08, 2017, 11:14:08 AM
For what it's worth, I'm talking about peeking in to look at the level of food in a feeder. I'm on the Gulf Coast so we don't have much of a problem feeding when it is cold. We do a problem with the alternation of warm and cold periods (I was in 80 day before yesterday and snowed this morning--first time in about 12 years). The bees get all cranked up making babies during a warm spell and will eat all their stores then it goes back to being cold.
Large temperature variations are a problem for everyone but if the bees are eating all their stores in December it leads me to believe they weren't left enough.
Quote from: UrbisAgricola on December 08, 2017, 12:36:40 PM
Do you think a glass 40 oz beer bottle would be more or less likely to drip when the air pressure changes?
Air pressure (barrametric) doesn't matter but air expansion due to temperature changes in the bottle matter. So the dripping will increase as the bottle empties out. Having a sheet of plastic directly under the bottle would be my answer. Not exposing the bottle to sunlight I would also recommend.
I was writing a reply the same as ACE but one more thing, put a deep over the bottle, this should take care of the biggest temp swings,
Strewth - seems everybody's on-line right now ...
As Brian says, changes in barometric pressure is insignificant - it's changes in temperature - mainly due to heating from sunlight - which is the major cause of dripping.
And as paus says - simply put another box over the brood box to solve that one. I also cover the crown board/ inner cover AND the bottle with expanded polystyrene insulation - 'cause I always tend to over-engineer everything I do ... LOL
Certainly the rigidity of a glass bottle (of whatever kind suits you) would be preferable to the more flexible plastic equivalent.
Do your beer bottles have screw tops then ? Ours have a one-time pressed-on 'crown' something or other, which you just rip-off - so our beer bottles can't easily be used as feeders. So I use ex-food jars (sauces, jams, mayonnaise - anything with a reusable screw-on lid) from the supermarket.
LJ
We have both kinds of tops. There are a couple brands of 40 oz beer that have aluminum threaded lids. I'll be feeling good getting these feeders ready. :wink:
I use a sugar patty from Mann Lake. Lil John, across the pond may not know Mann Lake so I will explain.
These patties contain, Sucrose, fructose, glucose and a tiny bit of protein. The patties do not drip, are simisolid like dough or taffy, similar to brown sugar. They come layered with wax paper partitions. They are sticky and the bees love the stuff.
I place the patties on top of frames, above the cluster.
ACEBIRD eat dirt, it good for you. Ace, I laughed at your remark in another post, although there is a bit of truth to what you were saying, ?sterile world.? Ace, you can combine humor with serious issues in a unique way,,,,,,I appreciate.
Blessings
Quote from: little john on December 08, 2017, 01:08:21 PM
Do your beer bottles have screw tops then ? Ours have a one-time pressed-on 'crown' something or other, which you just rip-off - so our beer bottles can't easily be used as feeders. So I use ex-food jars (sauces, jams, mayonnaise - anything with a reusable screw-on lid) from the supermarket.
LJ
Bee creative. Pound the cap back on after you have drilled a small hole and use the engineers answer to everything, duct tape. :smile:
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on December 08, 2017, 05:11:08 PM
ACEBIRD eat dirt, it good for you.
It doesn't work for women but it helps the prostate. :smile:
If they are starving they are as good as dead already unless you feed. Worst case opening them when it cold to feed you get the same result.
If you are sure they are starving you have nothing to loose and everything to gain buy opening and feeding.
I don't know exactly where in sw Louisiana UrbisAgricola is located, but let's say somewvhere around Lake Charles. The temperature in Lake Charles ranges from 32 tto 57 today. So he should be able to safely put a mountain camp sugar fix on his hive today. We're not talking about Montana, after all. Cold to those of us living down south is balmy to some of you up nawth :cool:
If I want to see if they need food I lift the edge of the hive. I estimate the weight (it weighs twice what it feels like because the other side is still on the ground). If it feels almost empty, I would give them dry sugar. If not, I would leave them alone and not open it up.