The never ending battle struggle bees and small hive beetles has been discussed numerous times through the years. This is a subject that most all of us are interested in and would like to see once and for all resolved. Yet with all of the discussion, videos, etc on this subject, I haven't, or don't remember reading, what damage can and does the bee actually inflict on a small hive beetles when "caught"? I have read and seen videos where the bees "corner" the beetles and keep them at bay but can anyone tell me what damage does the bee actually do to the beetle? Has anyone actually seen this struggle in action? The attack I am meaning, not the cornering. Thanks, Phillip
None, they can only paste them in.
If the bee can flip over the SHB it will pick it up and remove it from the hive. Besides that the bees are pretty much helpless when it comes to the beetles except to "jail" them in areas of the hive.
Quote from: Beeboy01 on April 01, 2018, 10:08:28 AM
If the bee can flip over the SHB it will pick it up and remove it from the hive. Besides that the bees are pretty much helpless when it comes to the beetles except to "jail" them in areas of the hive.
Yes they will fly off with them and presumably drop them a distance from the hive.
Mr. Ben, I believe through my own trials that it is virtually impossible for a bee to sting a beetle. With the aid a a Nikon Stereo microscope, I have removed a stinger from a Honey bee, gased a beetle with co2 to immobilize then with the aid of precision forceps holding the stinger tried to impale a beetle on the underside of the beetle between the joints at the soft parts and I could in no way sting the immobile, sleeping beetle. I?m talking with the aid of a 3D scope trying to get the stinger in soft tissue of the leg joints of a beetle. The bee stinger would bend, not penetrate.
Living in the south, Arkansas, I consider the small hive beetle more of a threat than they varroa mite. I?m a hobbyist with 10-20 hives and a can of freeze spray instantly freezes the beetles to death for me. For a commercial breeder, I can only wonder how they manage the beetles.
I also use screen bottom boards, with diatom earth baited with substitute pollen., under the screen of course, away from the bees. Ben Framed, luv the name, a classic.
Blessings
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on April 01, 2018, 05:46:56 PM
Mr. Ben, I believe through my own trials that it is virtually impossible for a bee to sting a beetle. With the aid a a Nikon Stereo microscope, I have removed a stinger from a Honey bee, gased a beetle with co2 to immobilize then with the aid of precision forceps holding the stinger tried to impale a beetle on the underside of the beetle between the joints at the soft parts and I could in no way sting the immobile, sleeping beetle. I?m talking with the aid of a 3D scope trying to get the stinger in soft tissue of the leg joints of a beetle. The bee stinger would bend, not penetrate.
Living in the south, Arkansas, I consider the small hive beetle more of a threat than they varroa mite. I?m a hobbyist with 10-20 hives and a can of freeze spray instantly freezes the beetles to death for me. For a commercial breeder, I can only wonder how they manage the beetles.
I also use screen bottom boards, with diatom earth baited with substitute pollen., under the screen of course, away from the bees. Ben Framed, luv the name, a classic.
Blessings
Thanks Van!! You have really did your homework with this! I am very impressed! Y'all have come across with some very interesting facts that I did not know about this subject, so thanks to you, Acebird, Beeboy01, and moebees for your replies!! Much appreciated!! And thanks for the name complement "Ben Framed" lol.. Sincerely, Phillip
Luuurve that nitro can of freeze Van..the most fun I have had in working bees since
I discovered I could eat honey from the frame and do no harm :-)))
Bill
?I have read and seen videos where the bees "corner" the beetles and keep them at bay but can anyone tell me what damage does the bee actually do to the beetle? ?
Ben,
After the bees have the beetles cornered, they set guards to keep them locked in. You would expect the beetles to starve to death but the beetles have learned a trick. They have two little paddles on their head. They use them to trick the bees into feeding them while they are trapped. They use them to tickle the bees antennae the same way that the young bees do when they are hungry.
So the bees keep the SHBs alive while they are trapped.
By the way, when you take the brood nest apart, the bees stop paying attention to the SHBs and spend up to 3 days fixing the brood frames while the SHBs run around laying eggs everywhere with out being harassed.
Something to think about every time you inspect the brood nest.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 01, 2018, 11:47:20 PM
?I have read and seen videos where the bees "corner" the beetles and keep them at bay but can anyone tell me what damage does the bee actually do to the beetle? ?
Ben,
After the bees have the beetles cornered, they set guards to keep them locked in. You would expect the beetles to starve to death but the beetles have learned a trick. They have two little paddles on their head. They use them to trick the bees into feeding them while they are trapped. They use them to tickle the bees antennae the same way that the young bees do when they are hungry.
So the bees keep the SHBs alive while they are trapped.
By the way, when you take the brood nest apart, the bees stop paying attention to the SHBs and spend up to 3 days fixing the brood frames while the SHBs run around laying eggs everywhere with out being harassed.
Something to think about every time you inspect the brood nest.
Jim
Wow! They are adaptable little devils aren't they!! Very valuable information you are sharing!! Thanks for your response Jim. Phillip
No problem.
Look at Gatherings, BeeFest 2018 for a recipe that is supposed to eliminate SHBs from your hives in 14 days. I have not tried it yet but I have 3 friends who swear by it.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 02, 2018, 05:43:32 AM
No problem.
Look at Gatherings, BeeFest 2018 for a recipe that is supposed to eliminate SHBs from your hives in 14 days. I have not tried it yet but I have 3 friends who swear by it.
Jim
Thanks Jim, I am thinking that this is the recipe that was discussed in a previous post titled, My never wet beetle barrier trial ? Is that the same formula? This really looks promising!! Thanks for your reply. Phillip
They sure are concerning. They're migrating to my part of the world and seemingly no one around me is prepared for them or knows how to deal with them. One of my hives was lost to them about two years ago.
Mirage, there is one fella in your country that can deal with the small hive beetle, Eltalia, Mr. Bill, one of my buddies. He will tell ya all about it and it?s fun blasting beetles.
Blessings
Good to know. One local beekeeper I told about said not to say that I had small hive beetle, that it was scary to say and that I must have been wrong about that. Another man, a beekeeping supply yard man with numerous years of beekeeping experience, said to me that he didn't have anything in stock to deal with small hive beetle, and that small hive beetle won't thrive much in my part of the world due to our ants, according to him the ants will eat the beetles when their babies are in the soil. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I haven't been hit by the beetle since.
Quote from: omnimirage on April 02, 2018, 08:21:24 PM
They sure are concerning. They're migrating to my part of the world and seemingly no one around me is prepared for them or knows how to deal with them. One of my hives was lost to them about two years ago.
They are "migrating" primarily as people with a few hives in their control are
saying, in company..."Ahh, it's a few beetles, the Yanks have them in thousands
and they get by. Don't worry about it the bees will take care of it"
I walk away to regret attending yet another meet/seminar/conference.
I shudder to think what options I will have as an elder disabled man when Varroa D.
hits this Country when it is only "honeybadgers" running the show :-((
Bill
The problem with SHBs moving into new areas is that when do, the bees do not know how to corral them and they are allowed to lay their eggs unabated. Then thousands of larvae hatch out and if they do not remove them immediately, the hive is slimed and the bees will abscond to survive. If left alone, it does not take long for the bees to figure how to handle them.
When Langstroth?s bees first encountered wax moth?s they had the same problem. Today, wax moth?s are just a clean up crew of empty and weak hives.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 02, 2018, 09:47:32 PM
The problem with SHBs moving into new areas is that when do, the bees do not know how to corral them and they are allowed to lay their eggs unabated. Then thousands of larvae hatch out and if they do not remove them immediately, the hive is slimed and the bees will abscond to survive. If left alone, it does not take long for the bees to figure how to handle them.
When Langstroth?s bees first encountered wax moth?s they had the same problem. Today, wax moth?s are just a clean up crew of empty and weak hives.
Jim
:thumbs up:
Bill
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on April 02, 2018, 08:35:25 PM
Mirage, there is one fella in your country that can deal with the small hive
beetle, Eltalia, Mr. Bill, one of my buddies. He will tell ya all about it and
iy?s fun blasting beetles.
Blessings
Hopefully Omni is still following and not engrossed in
TF American practices, Van ol' mate :-))
That nitrio is the Gas.. literally!
Cheap as chips for beetles hit over time and material spent.
Environmentally friendly.
Bee friendly as long as the operator does not suffer from Park'ies
or St.Viidas Dance**
Multiple uses over time with no storage difficulties
Can be holstered safely using a strong magnet inside your shorts/BS
making the b'keep a modern day Wyatt Earp... "no SHB in Dodge, Bro!!"
Fsssssssssssssst Fsssssssssssst - "give 'em a decent burial Pilgrim".
Uttered as you blow the mist off the tube, and wander off into the
setting sun!
Bill
https://www.justanswer.com/health/19dqs-st-vidas-dance-know-type-siezure.html
Eltalia,
I do not have a clue of what that all meant. Is their an English version. :embarassed:
I am quite sure that I?m not the only one.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 02, 2018, 10:42:38 PM
Eltalia,
I do not have a clue of what that all meant. Is their an English version. :embarassed:
I am quite sure that I?m not the only one.
Jim
heh... I'll share this with you Jim, something not at all widely known about myself even here in "Oz".
It may clear some things if you can stand the read.
I lose (loose) most of the punctuation, too time consuming to correct and likely not understood anyway.
Back when I was a mere lad maybe 14 just I had an agricultural accident which saw me legless for
12 weeks straight then on crutches for another four months in physiotherapy. To my knowledge I am
the only one to have survived the damage of a common injury of the day, myself largely unhindered.
Doctors on seeing the the scars today comment "You have tough bones or your one lucky fella"... I
say Luck combined with involuntary movement (physio) as the mind worked muscles sublimely whilst
the eyes read and my imagination ran like the wind in a hurricane.
Since I did my A(eh) Bee C'z I had a passion for reading, read everything I could get my hands on
and we were of poor hardworking stock so not much of rote but a lot of variation. I'd read a discarded
Womans Weekly, for example right after a page from the Telegraph some punter had left in the
dunny (WC).
I digress.
Those days they kept you in hospital until you could walk out but I never would as much of the injury
turned gangerous because of the conditions in the paddock(field/meadow) it happened in. So I was
to be nursed at home after the surgery was done. This because we had no "teenager" wards and it was
not seen as fit and proper for lads to be in the same ward as men for any long recovery.
And so duly I was shipped out to --- boredom.
That hospital had life.
All home had was work and glares from my siblings as I was "bludging" (loafer/slacker/lazy-B) so it
was I asked SWMBO to get books from the library. That denied as there was a fee involved and a
penalty for late returns buuuuut she had a friend in town who ran a book exchange who would help
out with "penny westerns" FREE.
I literally ate them. She would come home with a payload a mule would struggle with and I would be
into them most(each) read within the hour so as it became a chore for her to carry off the "deaduns" at the
end of a day.
I learnt how to tip me hat, brush away my coat for a fast draw sew up a bullet ridden indian squaw I
had designs on gun down multiple baddies with just six shots ride across the horse firing me
Winchester and blazing away with a huge Navy Colt all the while spurring that horse silly!
And of course... I always had the badge.!! ha hah ha
Now, I never read a single one ever again after leaving that bed but boy oh boy I'll never forget the
fun I had learnin' 'Merkin and walking that talk.
It sure durn did me bones good, like :-))))
Now, I could not tell you which part of the USA those authors came from, could not even tell you who
they were today. So maybe the dialects are so diverse in the USA those who haven't read any
"penny western" are not able to hear the "clip clop" as Sheriff B (beadle) Blaster rides into town wth
his cross-slung pearl embossed nitro cans and the baddies "run for the hills" as he draws and fires a
volley of ice at them.
Maybe some don't feel the satisfaction, sniff the vanishing mist?
But I can. I reckon Van can too.
So maybe just for a few bucks others might join the fun and do bees a power of good? Cheers...
Bill
:happy:
Now, I understood every word of that.
Glad you survived that ordeal.
I never read any of those Penny Westerns.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 02, 2018, 10:42:38 pm
Eltalia,
I do not have a clue of what that all meant. Is their an English version.
I am quite sure that I?m not the only one.
Jim
"Back when I was a mere lad maybe 14 just I had an agricultural accident which saw me legless for
12 weeks straight then on crutches for another four months in physiotherapy."
@eltalia
I could understand your post 17 somewhat clearer than I do your post 19. When you say you were legless for 12 weeks, do you mean that your legs were lost, Amputated and received artificial ones after the 12 weeks, or bones broken and Unable to use them, or muscles severely damaged or possibly some other answer? The western books I can understand. My family comes from the cattle background. The reason I ask is I, have suffered sever injurers and was laid up for months also. No fun at all for me either Bill. God Bless, Phillip
Bill, clearly your writing style is a combination of many a book so it is sometimes hard for us to follow. We Americans would equate it to a foreigner with broken English. And yes the dialects within the US are many. We come from many a tongue. One only needs to travel a short distance from Albany, to the big Apple to Long Island and then to Boston to hear the sound of four distinct dialects and have trouble understanding them when they are spoken. For the most part the written words eliminate the confusion but not all.
The western comics depicts the Wild, Wild West where there is far more land then there is people even today. Rule of law was personal armament. Many would like it returned even though it could never work in a dense population.
Quote from: omnimirage on April 02, 2018, 08:21:24 PM
They sure are concerning. They're migrating to my part of the world and seemingly no one around me is prepared for them or knows how to deal with them. One of my hives was lost to them about two years ago.
omnimirage
After reading your post here I deceided to start a new post titled What Is The Best Beetle Trap The folks that responded had some good ideas as how to deal with the small hive beetle. Maybe even more ideas, both new and old, will be added from keepers own personal experiences. All replays are appreciated by me and I am sure many others, especially by those of you who are going to "have"to deal with this problem in the future. The more ammunition you, and we, have against this pesky nuisance the better. Right? Thanks, Phillip
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 03, 2018, 05:25:14 AM
:happy:
Now, I understood every word of that.
Glad you survived that ordeal.
I never read any of those Penny Westerns.
Jim
It all near set me back education wise on the plan
for University. I got there, eventually.
Yourself being the most savvy guy on SHB I have read
on the Net I hope you do get to blow a few off with nitro.
Worth a try at least :-)))
Bill
@Acebird
"For the most part the written words eliminate the confusion but not all."
There exist many vocalised versions of English I have great difficulty in
processing "on the fly". However, oddly enough, in respect of American
english I am not alone in understanding that written word yet more than
I note barely an American can understand correctly formatted English.
It is indeed an odd situation.
Bill
@Ben Framed
"do you mean that your legs were lost,"
I was put into a whole pelvis to knee cast joined to a frame contraption
which was fixed to a fibreglass 'foot'. The frame necessary to access the
wounds to calf and ankle for gangrene treatment, twice a day.
No wheelchair, always stretchered, prone.
I was carried to the yard to be hosed as a bath/wash/shower.
Dad made me a "WC" to which I was carried - and placed over - to post
my daily mail to the worms.
I trust there is detail aplenty in all that... :-))))))
Bill
Quote from: eltalia on April 03, 2018, 11:21:12 AM
@Ben Framed
"do you mean that your legs were lost,"
I was put into a whole pelvis to knee cast joined to a frame contraption
which was fixed to a fibreglass 'foot'. The frame necessary to access the
wounds to calf and ankle for gangrene treatment, twice a day.
No wheelchair, always stretchered, prone.
I was carried to the yard to be hosed as a bath/wash/shower.
Dad made me a "WC" to which I was carried - and placed over - to post
my daily mail to the worms.
I trust there is detail aplenty in all that... :-))))))
Bill
Goodness yes !! But you do still have your legs, right? Very fortunate!! My back was broken in 2 places, broke right femur bone (right main leg bone)completely into but thank God didn't protrude through the skin as yours must've done? Fractured my left ancle and broke every bone in my chest cavity. Along with briuses from head to toe 😁. Was a long nine months ..
Wow, you 2 have been through a lot. I?m glad you 2 are both able to get around.
A good friend who lives in GA was in a car accident back in August, broke his back in 2 places and shattered both legs. During BeeFest, walked from his car to the picnic tables with a walker. Pretty amazing.
Jim
Wow! I feel extremely blessed (or lucky, if that is your preference)
In regard to language I have trouble understanding local folk at times, especially if there is loud music and they are "low talkers". The cultural influences within Houston vary widely.
Wow, quite a story, Bill. Sorry for the unbearable pain you must have suffered at 14. Riding with Wyatt with a colt smoking in hand, leather reins held in the teeth, eating dust kicked up by a galloping horse; to escape the pain, gangrene, bed ridden, condescending siblings, uncontrolled muscle spasms and care less hospitals. That is how you survived, that?s what matters, you survived. Thanks for sharing buddy.
Personally, I enjoy the floral way you write, unique, although I did not realize that?s how you survived as a lad,,,,,makes one think....and think a lot.... Enjoy the bees, Buddy.
Blessings
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 03, 2018, 01:51:32 PM
Wow, you 2 have been through a lot. I?m glad you 2 are both able to get around.
A good friend who lives in GA was in a car accident back in August, broke his back in 2 places and shattered both legs. During BeeFest, walked from his car to the picnic tables with a walker. Pretty amazing.
Jim
Thank you Jim, I feel very blessed. It was quite an experience for me both physically and spiritually!! A hard time that I wouldn't want to go through again or wish on my worse enemy, but at the same time a wonderful experience spiritually!! I would be happy to share it with you all but like Bill it will take a lot of space. Maybe on the introduce yourself section I will send, or even better, I will send a pm to you and let you deceide where I need to post it? Thanks again Jim and God Bless !! Sincerely, Phillip
Quote from: eltalia on April 03, 2018, 11:19:15 AM
I note barely an American can understand correctly formatted English.
As an act of independence we changed the formatting. Yes it is difficult following spoken and sometime written English when the author is from Britten.
Quote from: Acebird on April 03, 2018, 05:48:18 PM
Quote from: eltalia on April 03, 2018, 11:19:15 AM
I note barely an American can understand correctly formatted English.
As an act of independence we changed the formatting. Yes it is difficult following spoken and sometime written English when the author is from Britten.
Ha ha too funny!! Yes y'all are right, different accents and different dialects, even with out great language of English, can sometimes be confusing. We have our neighbors from the North, the Canadians, our friends from down under , the Australians, our friends from South Africa. And many other places from around the world that were colonized by the "bloody British" 😁 Our country's ancestral home, England, Great Britain. But one writing we all have in common written in the old English is great King James Bible. I hope that is something we can all understand. The tie that binds...
Quote from: Acebird on April 03, 2018, 05:48:18 PM
Quote from: eltalia on April 03, 2018, 11:19:15 AM
I note barely an American can understand correctly formatted English.
As an act of independence we changed the formatting. Yes it is difficult following
spoken and sometime written English when the author is from Britten(sic).
I know the history Brian, and whilst I do empathise with the reasons
why such a stark step was taken, in my view it was just one of many
"separatist" embraces which have over time made Life way more
difficult for the USA citizens then need be.
Case in point is this very discussion happening now.
However, I worked very very hard to get a "proper education", and
embrace that, am proud of it buuut even prouder it gave me the
insight to make bl00dy sure our kids (both) got a better easier
earned education.
I reap that benefit in watching how well their respective careers go
for them.
During my struggle to catch up in what you guys know as senior
school one of my teachers said to me during a one on one ancient
history 'lesson',
"endurance under disparity builds character".
Being AH I thought it very apt at the time and never forgot those words.
Today we have the Internet version - "wot doan kill ya makes ya stronger".
It still fits, still works.. for me :-)))
I sincerely thank all those writing their thoughts here, all of them.
Life can be a beetch at times, and then it really kicks you in the guts... but
as a past sweetheart of mine said as she waved me goodbye.....
"after rain the sun always shines".
If any of it (thread) tempts a body to go try SHB huntin' with nitro then
together we (royal) have not typed/tapped in vain.
Adios Amigos, Ondelee Ondeleeeee Vamoooooose!
Bill