A really good read with - it seems to me - an intelligent approach. Remove the two spaces after the colon to make the link operative-
https: //static1.squarespace.com/static/56818659c21b86470317d96e/t/5900c8b5bf629a68d138598f/1493223607505/TreatmentFree_Oct2016.pdf
Every time you requeen you start the process over. You will never get to the finish line. It ain't just the queen. Almost half the genetic material in a hive comes from the queen and then there is the other half. Just saying.
Quote from: Acebird on April 05, 2018, 08:38:05 AM
Every time you requeen you start the process over. You will never get to the finish line. It ain't just the queen. Almost half the genetic material in a hive comes from the queen and then there is the other half. Just saying.
Not forgetting the possibility of epigenetic involvement as well ...
LJ
Quote from: Acebird on April 05, 2018, 08:38:05 AM
Every time you requeen you start the process over. You will never get to the finish line. It ain't just the queen. Almost half the genetic material in a hive comes from the queen and then there is the other half. Just saying.
I'm sure she has no idea what she is doing.... :shocked: Seriously??? She is not just requeening... she is not killing her bees and requeening with better know stock.... Ummmm who is my money on.... her or well you know ...... :shocked: :wink:
No offense but do I put my money on this lady:
Meghan Milbrath, PhD, MPH
Education
PhD, Environmental Health Studies, University of Michigan 2012
MPH, International Health and Development, Tulane University 2004
BA, Biology, St. Olaf College
Current Professional Activities
Academic Specialist, Honey bees and pollinators extension and research, Michigan State University Department of Entomology
Coordinator of the Michigan Pollinator Initiative
Owner, Sand Hill Apiary
Memberships
Member, American Beekeeping Federation
Member, Entomological Society of America
Michigan Beekeepers Association
South East Michigan Beekeepers Association
Center of Michigan Beekeepers
Ann Arbor Backyard Beekeepers
Hobbies
I don't have any hobbies because I don't have any time, but I love all the work that I do.
I work at Michigan State University doing honey bee extension and research
I run my own beekeeping business (http://www.sandhillbees.org), where we run 200 hives for honey production and queen rearing.
I teach beekeeping
I write and read about bees, and spend any free time turning our 80 acres into the best pollinator habitat possible.
Pets
My husband and I raise hogs and chickens, and have 2 dogs - a lovely, well behaved Labrador and a border collie mix that happily terrorizes everyone.
Or an internet ACEBIRD..... :wink:
Quote from: sc-bee on April 05, 2018, 01:55:38 PM
No offense but this lady:
Meghan Milbrath, PhD, MPH
Education
PhD, Environmental Health Studies, University of Michigan 2012
MPH, International Health and Development, Tulane University 2004
BA, Biology, St. Olaf College
Current Professional Activities
I haven't read the article yet so will comment on that after I have read it. I do not use chemicals to treat my bees and am 100% in favor of the beekeeping world moving toward bees that can live and thrive in the presence of varroa. However, I think sometimes the "treatment free" community does a disservice to itself and its cause by some of the people that go around promoting it because of some suspect ideas and information and credentials of these individuals.
As I said I have not read the article but I am familiar with the author described above and would not list her credentials as being impressive in terms of bee research. She has actually just begun doing research on bees and has a limited beekeeping background as well. Her academic background has also not prepared her very well for the professional path she is on. I say this being someone with a PhD in ruminant nutrition who spent most of my career in medical research so you may take it with a grain of salt. I have also taught undergraduate biology majors and although some are excellent it was not my experience that that was the norm. And the biology degree is the closest to anything that might be applicable to bees. International Health Developement and Environmental health studies I don't give one confidence that she knows much about entomology are basic scientific research for the matter.
I wish her well and she may have a stellar career in honey bee research. I hope she does. All I am saying is that she hasn't proven anything yet and so we will have to wait and see.
Dr. Moe: nutrition, an applicable field to everyday life and applicable to honey bees as well. Impressive, Sir.
I have bee trying to determine the difference between high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) and honey on a molecular basis. Clearly one can see, smell, taste the difference with the naked eye no less, but on a molecular basis, I am having trouble discerning the two. Not to confuse with corn syrup, but HFCS 52 I believe it?s called.
I hate to use scientific words for in public such as this forum but readers please forgive me this time. With this in mind is a cis or trans structure the only difference? Which I understand is a huge difference. I am not considering common polluted Honey with pollens and all, just the molecules such as fructose and glucose. Lil John, also others: input is appreciated.
Google honey molecule, then HFCS molecule.
Its probably something simple I am overlooking, I admit freely I have forgotten 99% of my chemistry. Some time ago I trained pathologist, MD level in my career but the details do not matter this day.
Blessings
moebees - extremely well expressed. I looked-up this lady's background too, after reading that passionate (and rather 'girly') article, and came to exactly the same conclusion as yourself. (although I don't think I would have expressed my opinion quite as well as you did)
QuoteIf you are thinking about not managing varroa mites in your colonies as a way to keep bees, I urge you to open the colony while they are in the dying process. Look those suffering girls right in their compound eyes, and reflect on how you want to provide for the animals under your care.
Not exactly the typical words of a scientist, thinks I - and duly found her bio at: https://www.vin.com/promo/Consultants/consultant433.htm. She continues ...
QuoteIt just doesn?t feel right to call yourself a beekeeper while letting your bees die a slow, preventable, death.
That's right, sweetheart -
preventable - that's exactly why many of us treat, until such time as a more proven course of action is found.
LJ
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on April 05, 2018, 03:48:25 PM
I have bee trying to determine the difference between high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) and honey on a molecular basis. Clearly one can see, smell, taste the difference with the naked eye no less, but on a molecular basis, I am having trouble discerning the two. Not to confuse with corn syrup, but HFCS 52 I believe it?s called.
I hate to use scientific words for in public such as this forum but readers please forgive me this time. With this in mind is a cis or trans structure the only difference? Which I understand is a huge difference. I am not considering common polluted Honey with pollens and all, just the molecules such as fructose and glucose. Lil John, also others: input is appreciated.
Google honey molecule, then HFCS molecule.
I don't know that there is a difference. What makes you think there is? Honey is about 50% fructose so if you are comparing to something like HFCS55 the difference is 5%. Both are solutions so I would assume its isomeric forms would be similar between HFCS and honey. I don't think the difference in smell and taste is from the sugar components. Or maybe I am missing what you are getting at?
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on April 05, 2018, 03:48:25 PM
I am not considering common polluted Honey with pollens and all, just the molecules such as fructose and glucose.
Well sure Van there is no difference between fructose and fructose and glucose and glucose. How could they be different? But I ask you is there any chemical difference between a Hershey's bar and an apple? Just because they both have sugar doesn't mean they are the same.
Quote from: little john on April 05, 2018, 05:00:51 PM
moebees - extremely well expressed. I looked-up this lady's background too, after reading that passionate (and rather 'girly') article, and came to exactly the same conclusion as yourself. (although I don't think I would have expressed my opinion quite as well as you did)
QuoteIf you are thinking about not managing varroa mites in your colonies as a way to keep bees, I urge you to open the colony while they are in the dying process. Look those suffering girls right in their compound eyes, and reflect on how you want to provide for the animals under your care.
Not exactly the typical words of a scientist, thinks I - and duly found her bio at: https://www.vin.com/promo/Consultants/consultant433.htm. She continues ...
QuoteIt just doesn?t feel right to call yourself a beekeeper while letting your bees die a slow, preventable, death.
That's right, sweetheart - preventable - that's exactly why many of us treat, until such time as a more proven course of action is found.
LJ
After seeing your post, Little John, I thought I better go read the article. It is less an article than a blog post I guess. Its on squarespace but I couldn't find what it i linked to for context. Is this her personal site or something linked to Michigan State? She is in extension at MSU and this article seems like something written for extension purposes. Anyway, I don't want to get into a detailed critique because I disagree with almost everything in it. Like I said before, I wish her luck but I don't agree with the approach. I don't think it works.
Hi Van - confession time - I know absolutely nothing about HFCS. In the US it's cheap and freely available - over here we (as in General Public) never get to see the stuff. If you wanted to buy HFCS in the UK, then it would need to be specially ordered and cost big bucks. Bit like Golden-Rod - for you guys it's a weed, but for us it's a high-price plant sold in Garden Centres ...
There's a HFCS Wiki which might be of interest to you - seems that there are several 'grades' of HFCS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup
What I do know about fructose itself, is that it's favoured by athletes, as fructose and glucose have completely different catabolic pathways, so essentially twice the amount of carbs can be taken-up by the body, without the restriction which a single pathway would impose in order to prevent overload - for as you know, insulin regulates glucose metabolism, but plays no part whatsoever in fructose metabolism. Dunno if any of this stuff applies to bees though.
LJ
Thanks Moe, Ace, Lil John,I will try to be more specific. Yes I realize fructose is fructose regardless of source. What confuses me is: I look at Honey: fructose, glucose some complex sugars, then I look at HFCS and see the exact same, the sugar molecules simple and complex that is. Not talking about all the beautiful beneficial enzymes in Honey, the pollens, just the sugars appear to be the same and in same percentages.
I expected to see different ratios of sugars, different % complex sugars: if I was to analyze the sugar content of honey and HFCS with a Spectrometer (flame ionized infrared spectrometer) instrument(s) I could not differentiate, unless as I hoped one would say it is resolved by the structures cis and trans, simple as that, end of discussion.... note HFCS 40, the difference, a lot of starch molecules, so it is easy to distinguish from Honey.
This is getting a bit more complex than I had anticipated. I apologize for the buzz words. Lil John, you are good with chemistry Sir, am I making myself clear? The diff???? Between Honey and HFCS???
Blessings
Yes LJ I thought girly... well she is a giiirrllll :wink: and still I'll take any Phd over an ACEBIRD anyday :shocked: What I read is not supporting the "live and let die method' which is the same as Oliver promotes. Treat to avoid crash and contamination chose from the best.
I found the Seeley video Robo posting interesting in the fact he completely dismissed the small cell theory. And he also said the US will never reach varroa no treatment status unless the American Bee Industry completely colapses. Maybe I read too much in between the lines.
Yes bee blogs and opinions are a dime a doze and in some places more than a dozen for less that a dime What is an ACEBRID anyway... Just kidding man
There are numerous bonafide scientific articles conducted by various universities in various countries the past decade that dismiss varroa control by means of a small cell. PubMed or google a search and see with your own eyes.
However there is a fella on this site, a regular, that claims sussessful control of varroa utilizing small cell. Maybe it?s his unique environment, climate, terrain, maybe his strain of bees, a combination of of things, or some other factor I am not aware of. But I believe the fella.
With honey bees things are not always black and white, there are gray areas especially local climate.
I seem to remember scientists, doctors, not long ago treated stomach ulcers with: a lecture on stress, advocated drinking milk products with anti acids and avoided at almost all cost the use antibiotics. Antibiotics were proven to upset the stomach, many bonafied articles. The current research back their treatment methods.
Of course now a days we know most stomach ulcers are caused by bacteria and antibiotics are the cure.
Blessings
Wow, GUYS... "girly"? "sweetheart"? Yikes - are y'all married? I must be of roughly the same generation as you (I'm 63), and as we should know by now, that's no excuse - my PhD wife would box your ears - in very ungirly-like fashion...! :)
I don't see much discussion on the merits of her propositions here - but lots of knocking of her credentials and 'tone' - hmm, dare I say that comes off as 'guyish'?
"hmm, dare I say that comes off as 'guyish'? "
Not unless you wish to be misunderstood, taken literally
and so attract the (Thor)hammer of those who fail to
read and understand .
I am yet to read the link... getting way more from the
comments, I reckon. Especially the text "between the lines"
between g00gle arch foes ;-)))
Bill
--
Pssst... I will read it, over the weekend. Got farmin' stuff to do.
Quote from: tjc1 on April 05, 2018, 11:37:39 PM
Wow, GUYS... "girly"? "sweetheart"? Yikes - are y'all married? I must be of roughly the same generation as you (I'm 63), and as we should know by now, that's no excuse - my PhD wife would box your ears - in very ungirly-like fashion...! :)
I don't see much discussion on the merits of her propositions here - but lots of knocking of her credentials and 'tone' - hmm, dare I say that comes off as 'guyish'?
My response about her credentials was prompted by the OP listing her credentials as evidence that the article was sound. So I thought it was relevant to address her credentials.
Quote from: moebees on April 06, 2018, 02:21:41 AM
Quote from: tjc1 on April 05, 2018, 11:37:39 PM
Wow, GUYS... "girly"? "sweetheart"? Yikes - are y'all married? I must be of roughly the same generation as you (I'm 63), and as we should know by now, that's no excuse - my PhD wife would box your ears - in very ungirly-like fashion...! :)
I don't see much discussion on the merits of her propositions here - but lots of knocking of her credentials and 'tone' - hmm, dare I say that comes off as 'guyish'?
My response about her credentials was prompted by the OP listing her credentials as evidence that the article was sound. So I thought it was relevant to address her credentials.
I don't know how sound they are in YOUR bee world, but there were a lot of acronyms and alphabets etc, but I thought the alphabets were more thought provoking and concrete than the first poster who dismissed the article :shocked:
Quote from: tjc1 on April 05, 2018, 11:37:39 PM
Wow, GUYS... "girly"? "sweetheart"? Yikes - are y'all married? I must be of roughly the same generation as you (I'm 63), and as we should know by now, that's no excuse - my PhD wife would box your ears - in very ungirly-like fashion...! :)
I don't see much discussion on the merits of her propositions here - but lots of knocking of her credentials and 'tone' - hmm, dare I say that comes off as 'guyish'?
When I said 'girly' - I didn't actually mean to be disparaging - it's simply that when I read selected sections of that article - it came across as being very 'pink and fluffy' and I knew immediately (without looking) that it was written by a girl. Yes - a girl. Not a mature woman with substantial experience of life, but a girl.
'Sweetheart' WAS patronising, I agree - it was intended to be - because my words were being addressed to someone who apparently has scant experience of life outside of a university campus. I have often addressed post-doctoral students (both male and female) in that way whenever I encountered inflated egos.
To include one's academic qualifications when addressing an issue in an unrelated field is highly misleading and borderline dishonest - for by doing this you are presenting your own views as being those of someone with expertise within the subject area. At least that is highly likely to be the assumption that many would automatically draw.
If I held a Ph.D. in Victorian Architecture, Sub-Atomic Physics or Ancient Greek Literature - should my own beekeeping opinions be awarded merit because of having studied within one of these subject areas ? Certainly not. So is Environmental Health really any different ?
I too, wish her every success in the future, as she learns more about the honey bee - but I would suggest that in the meanwhile she exercises due caution when promoting her own beekeeping agenda.
LJ
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on April 05, 2018, 05:50:56 PM
Not talking about all the beautiful beneficial enzymes in Honey, the pollens, just the sugars appear to be the same and in same percentages.
I don't think there is an argument that bees cannot survive on syrup. Commercial operators do this on a regular basis. But those same commercial operators will insist bees cannot survive without treatments yet in the wild they do. And for the most part there isn't anyone feeding feral bees gallons of syrup.
The article is about moving to treatment free beekeeping and that always makes me laugh. The wish that you could somehow treat some of your bees and not all of them is really a man made dream. The only way to be treatment free is to do it the way nature does it. If you don't believe that then stop dreaming and just treat.
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on April 05, 2018, 05:50:56 PM
This is getting a bit more complex than I had anticipated. I apologize for the buzz words. Lil John, you are good with chemistry Sir, am I making myself clear? The diff???? Between Honey and HFCS??? Blessings
Hi Van - as previously mentioned, I know squat about HFCS, mainly because it's a man-made substance, and hasn't appeared on my radar (until now). So - I'm learning as I Google ...
There's a whole can of worms opening up here - I had assumed (always dangerous) that High Fructose Corn Syrup would be high in fructose (hence it's name) - but it's not - that label was created solely to distinguish it from bog-standard Corn Syrup. The percentages of glucose & fructose are the same as in sucrose. Not high levels of fructose at all.
There's some good chat about HFCS at: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/88/6/1716S/4617107 and https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/4/2/236/4591632 as well as plenty of other sites - but - they all appear to be focused upon issues related to human nutrition.
One comment I'd make which may be more directly helpful, is that there's really no such animal as 'a molecule of honey', as honey is a mixture - a blend of various sugars, and a whole lot more besides. There's quite a good write-up about the chemical composition of honey at: http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/loveridge/index-page3.html
Sorry for just giving links in this post - the weather has broken at last, and I'm like a mad thing right now around the site, as there's so much to do outdoors, which has been thus far prevented by lousy weather. Just firing-up the computer, each time I come in for a break. :smile:
'best
LJ
Quote from: Acebird on April 06, 2018, 08:39:04 AM
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on April 05, 2018, 05:50:56 PM
Not talking about all the beautiful beneficial enzymes in Honey, the pollens, just the sugars appear to be the same and in same percentages.
The article is about moving to treatment free beekeeping and that always makes me laugh. The wish that you could somehow treat some of your bees and not all of them is really a man made dream. The only way to be treatment free is to do it the way nature does it. If you don't believe that then stop dreaming and just treat.
This.
https:// static1.squarespace.com/static/56818659c21b86470317d96e/t/5900c8b5bf629a68d138598f/1493223607505/TreatmentFree_Oct2016.pdf
0keeee guys 'n gals, having now read the article I do comment thusly
from my Chair of Academia which shalt excite the impressionable
whilst reviling those irrepressible book burners, yet tick boxes with
the astute in scoring 'value".
Let us begin here;
The author of the essay - herein after described with "GOIL"
(given obvious installed liabilitys) doth use my name(Bill)
in vain, for;
I do not know the lady.
I do do treatment free but have no "mite" to treat or not treat.
IF I ever saved money beekeeping I would not be spending it on my
"favourite daughter" nor any other daughter.
First such would be rampant discrimination punishable in old age, and
second I would definitely use spare cash to expand my cellar stock.
0r if a small amount, incur further damage on my liver, immediately.
GOIL cites a 'cure' for chalkbroad yet doesn't remove from the apiary
what GOIL assumes is the problem;
o He removes the queen from colony 5, and put her in a nuc as a spare/emergency,
A dud queen is a dud queen, euthansia is the only route out of that.
GOIL then extends this 'cure' into a magical reversal of CB status in very quick time
in respect of brood cycles and climate progression;
o He orders a hygienic queen from a local breeder to put in colony 5.
o The chalk brood clears up.
That CB could not have possibly cleared up ttom other influences now hey... oH no,
no way, our new queen started pumping out hygenjc bees the minute her arse hit the
cells. Believe that and I have a bridge in Sydney Australia to sell.
GOIL cites requeening in a time of known mite buildup and diminishing forage.
o Once the treatment is finished, Bill orders 3 queens for fall requeening of colonies 2 ? 4.
So where does the bee stocks for brood care in the breakout of Winter come from?
Answer is they do not eventuate so whatever brood the bees raise from this late new queen
- who may not even lay an egg until a fortnight after install - creates a lack of sufficient numbers
in Winter break which then induces panic brood raising in yet another time of dearth resulting
in colony collapse in the first weeks of Spring!
Summary;
What we have here in GOIL is classic clash of mantra within a culture.
A twist if you like on a Philosophy which erodes the parent teaching
and so fuels an 'opposing' Philosophy to treat the former with scorn/derision.
As for the cuddly fuddly emotions expressed I am of the view that such antics
- particularly when signed off Professionly - is exactly as LJ has put.
Plus such forces used in a piece are designed to have those of us (b'keeps)
who do not follow the TF mantra to be seen as "bad guys" or "wasters" at best.
I truly think that is a sad inditement on GOIL in judging humanity thusly.
... here endth the lesson.
The short version.. the bit you will read first?
Nope, it don't stack up, it is insulting, and dare I say harmfull to bees as
a theory very few who would take on the extra workload would sustain.
Bill - the Real Bill ;-)))))
Hear hear Bill, well summarised.
The "language" she uses in her treatise is hardly that of an academic but we don't really know what audience she has written this for, it could just be a piece on her blog or such like.
I respect her right to her opinion even if I don't agree with it.
I agree with LJ where he says that using Phd at the heading of an article like this can almost be dishonest. Some people are insecure in who they are so need to prove that they are "worth" something so put the alphabet after their name.
Reminds me of a time in a former incarnation when a good friend of mine who was very successful had his office wall plastered with all his awards, certificates, etc. One day his son came into the office and said " Dad, who are you trying to impress?" Next day they all came down! Awards and certificates don't validate who you are what you do does.
"Awards and certificates don't validate who you are what you do does."
bingo!!
... got a raft of them myself an' that, none under glass tho' some
are well cared for. I take more from the getting of than the having,
if you follow me ;-)
And you know what?
Unless you remain active in a field (update). in the new way they all
mean diddly squat. Hard lesson in Life but it is what it is, and why I
don't even bother with a reliable phone connection :-))
Bill
Bamboo, well stated, very well stated, I could not agree more.
Eltalia, what a review, man oh man at the details,,,,,,when you read,,,,, you read every word and subsequent thought. Well appreciated.
Lil John, I luv the metaphor (girly), halarious, but accurate to say the least.
Blessings
Quote from: little john on April 06, 2018, 05:38:55 AM
Quote from: tjc1 on April 05, 2018, 11:37:39 PM
Wow, GUYS... "girly"? "sweetheart"? Yikes - are y'all married? I must be of roughly the same generation as you (I'm 63), and as we should know by now, that's no excuse - my PhD wife would box your ears - in very ungirly-like fashion...! :)
I don't see much discussion on the merits of her propositions here - but lots of knocking of her credentials and 'tone' - hmm, dare I say that comes off as 'guyish'?
When I said 'girly' - I didn't actually mean to be disparaging - it's simply that when I read selected sections of that article - it came across as being very 'pink and fluffy' and I knew immediately (without looking) that it was written by a girl. Yes - a girl. Not a mature woman with substantial experience of life, but a girl.
'Sweetheart' WAS patronising, I agree - it was intended to be - because my words were being addressed to someone who apparently has scant experience of life outside of a university campus. I have often addressed post-doctoral students (both male and female) in that way whenever I encountered inflated egos.
To include one's academic qualifications when addressing an issue in an unrelated field is highly misleading and borderline dishonest - for by doing this you are presenting your own views as being those of someone with expertise within the subject area. At least that is highly likely to be the assumption that many would automatically draw.
If I held a Ph.D. in Victorian Architecture, Sub-Atomic Physics or Ancient Greek Literature - should my own beekeeping opinions be awarded merit because of having studied within one of these subject areas ? Certainly not. So is Environmental Health really any different ?
I too, wish her every success in the future, as she learns more about the honey bee - but I would suggest that in the meanwhile she exercises due caution when promoting her own beekeeping agenda.
LJ
Yep we need more GIRLS in beekeeping... youth is the future of the craft. And bet she is certainly easier on the eyes than you or I. That don't add to her credentials but it on't hurt the PR :wink:
As far as her academic credentials, as weak as many seem they are, that is on me.... I searched them out and posted them. Well I see she has been keeping bees with family since a kid so hopefully better that the wet behind the ear kid with papers in her hand :happy:
Quote from: eltalia on April 06, 2018, 07:05:47 PM
"Awards and certificates don't validate who you are what you do does."
bingo!!
If only that was true. Certificates get you on the list of possibilities. You could be looked over if you don't have the certificates. Once you get on the list then what you do matters. My life is base on experience. My experience suggest that with a sheep skin it is assumed you can do it. Without a sheep skin you have to prove you can do it over and over again until you get enough people that know you and will vouch for you. That happens when you are old and don't give a darn anymore.
Quote from: eltalia on April 06, 2018, 06:01:50 PM
Bill - the Real Bill ;-)))))
Bill, you are ahead of schedule. It is not Saturday or Sunday ... no body needs saving yet.
The sinners will pay tomorrow or the next day.
Quote from: Acebird on April 06, 2018, 09:21:38 PM
Quote from: eltalia on April 06, 2018, 07:05:47 PM
"Awards and certificates don't validate who you are what you do does."
bingo!!
If only that was true. Certificates get you on the list of possibilities. You could be looked over if you don't have the certificates. Once you get on the list then what you do matters. My life is base on experience. My experience suggest that with a sheep skin it is assumed you can do it. Without a sheep skin you have to prove you can do it over and over again until you get enough people that know you and will vouch for you. That happens when you are old and don't give a darn anymore.
Very well said Ace... I just went thorough a work issue that dives this home.... I dare you ask the snowflake to do anything...they finally took my last GIVE a darn. Took almost 61 years but I am there in that place :wink:
Quote from: Acebird on April 06, 2018, 09:21:38 PM
Quote from: eltalia on April 06, 2018, 07:05:47 PM
"Awards and certificates don't validate who you are what you do does."
bingo!!
If only that was true. Certificates get you on the list of possibilities. You could be looked over if
you don't have the certificates. Once you get on the list then what you do matters. My life is base
on experience...
It is very true... at least it is Down Under.
And getting "on the list" Brian starts with what you do - in building your Resume.
Presuming of course USA human resource recruiters are in step with the rest of
top level developed workplaces.
My account is near on 10 years old now but coming from both sides of the
recruiting desk I can tell you plainly that should your Certs/Quals not be current
within your Resume - and/or position critetia address - the whole application will
be binned, regardless.
This stuff cannot be g00gl'd Brian... to comment one has to have that experience.
The experience being *doing* the yards to corral the cutting edge upgrades.
Try and pull the wool on that one and the only result is a through muelsing* at the
post/mail office.
Yet here we are once again Brian with your literal take on mere quips of
experience/opinion posted - you leading the topic off into the ether.
So frequent from your desk I do wonder, sometimes :wry grin:
Were I to worry *all* the time and so rush to your salvation my actions could be
seen as akin to the guy following the horse with broom and pan.
!!
In your case tho' it would be running the old trays out of tbe birdcage to insert
bleached and retarred replacements. :chuckles:
Bill
--
*mulesing*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulesing
And all of this bashing came from the sharing of one blog type article... Geezzzeee... I have been here a long time... seems the spirit of this forum has made a turn. But then again it could be me as I only check in from time to time. Anywayyyyy........
"But then again it could be me as I only check in from time to time. "
C Ya.. happy trails, you an' John both.
Quote from: eltalia on April 07, 2018, 12:46:26 AM
Presuming of course USA human resource recruiters are in step with the rest of
top level developed workplaces.
The procedures differ immensely by the size of the company in USA. Corporate America starts off with a job description and a list of qualifications, mostly academic with some experience. Experience only measured by time. This is done to trim down a list of 400 applicants to 20 or less. The opposite of corporate America is small business. Small business survives against the competition of corporate america by being better at what they do. Now the pendulum swings to predominately experience and experience that can be vouched for not just time. A reference can be worth far more than anything written on paper or any academic accomplishment. Small businesses are more inclined to take a chance on a candidate then corporate America. But you will have a short period of time to prove yourself and it must be done each and every time you switch jobs.
I don't know what the practices are for the down under but to lump all of america into one business practice would be like saying we are all white.
Quote from: eltalia on April 07, 2018, 04:01:01 AM
"But then again it could be me as I only check in from time to time. "
C Ya.. happy trails, you an' John both.
I knew I could count on you.... I been here for years and I am the consistent one in the equation over the years and YOU???? Well anyway......
You would have no idea of the tone of the page over the years.... you did not even exist :wink:
Quote from: sc-bee on April 07, 2018, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: eltalia on April 07, 2018, 04:01:01 AM
"But then again it could be me as I only check in from time to time. "
C Ya.. happy trails, you an' John both.
I knew I could count on you.... I been here for years and I am the consistent one in the
equation over the years and YOU???? Well anyway......
You would have no idea of the tone of the page over the years.... you did not even exist :wink:
.
I am not reporting your post/slur, not my style.
Men are Men where I come from. You (?) obviously sing trom another
song sheet, given the record.
Buuut you are leaving, again... consistently.
So some Life advice?
Accept what you do not understand, refuse to understand, to embrace
some education. There is at least one pathway to avoid histronics which
would reduce your sunset years.
FTR.. I do not "respect" your opinion on anything as the root of it all is
warped... buuut I am an easy going type so I am quite happy to tolerate
your views as long as they are clearly not shared by a wider audience in
allowing you to get in my face muttering slieghts and negatives.
You choose to sit on a long subscription (only)... go for it.
Means nought to me or others of objective thought. Brother :-/
Quote from: eltalia on April 07, 2018, 09:45:29 PM
Quote from: sc-bee on April 07, 2018, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: eltalia on April 07, 2018, 04:01:01 AM
"But then again it could be me as I only check in from time to time. "
C Ya.. happy trails, you an' John both.
I knew I could count on you.... I been here for years and I am the consistent one in the
equation over the years and YOU???? Well anyway......
You would have no idea of the tone of the page over the years.... you did not even exist :wink:
.
I am not reporting your post/slur, not my style.
Men are Men where I come from. You (?) obviously sing trom another
song sheet, given the record.
Buuut you are leaving, again... consistently.
So some Life advice?
Accept what you do not understand, refuse to understand, to embrace
some education. There is at least one pathway to avoid histronics which
would reduce your sunset years.
FTR.. I do not "respect" your opinion on anything as the root of it all is
warped... buuut I am an easy going type so I am quite happy to tolerate
your views as long as they are clearly not shared by a wider audience in
allowing you to get in my face muttering slieghts and negatives.
You choose to sit on a long subscription (only)... go for it.
Means nought to me or others of objective thought. Brother :-/
Report for what LOL... Root of it warped LOL I really never leave just check in and out.... you are so full of YOURSELF... If others tolerate you so be it. No issue to me and care less of what you think of me or my opinions or post or warped roots. WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT MY ROOTS ANYWAY :wink: I am past that point of my life... so go strap on your smokers and try to make yourself feel big :wink:
Oh yea...you love to speak for others???
"You choose to sit on a long subscription (only)... go for it. Means nought to me or others of objective thought. Brother :-/" Please others tell me of my WARPED ROOTS :cool:
I am not here to cause the forum issues.. so I am moving on to another post... done with YA...
As far as the original post... it was just an article and some choose, to make themselves feel huge and empowered in the arm chair bee forum world, to dissect it to the point of criticizing the article as if she were explaining what should be done about treating chalkboard in what was meant to be a simple illustration.... REALLY Geeze... HOW SAD :(
Geez SC
Chill man! Maybe you should move on from John and read Mathew 22:39.
@ eltalia. Well I look up and there you are again "Liberty", Right in the middle of another controversy, right in the middle of another "mess". I have only been posting here for what, two weeks and it seems you are constantly, tripping Ransom Stardard and spilling someone's steak. This time you spilt mine Liberty, Though I grew up with men who the character Tom imitated, I'm not going to tell you to pick it up Liberty, I am going to try and reason with you in Bamboo's way, your friend? Now I want to be serious with you for just a bit so please bare with me. You seem to be a well read man, a well learned man. So there won't or shouldn't be any confusion here, I am reaching out the right hand of Christian fellowship to you Bill . First of all, with all your education do you know that the Bible, and I prefer The King James Version, may be the longest running history book that has ever been written? bring a learned manI am thinking that you probably have read it. Did you know that the linage of Jesus can be traced back from generation to generation to adam? Can you find fault with Phillip Hall? I will answer that for you , yes sir you can. As a matter of fact, you can find fault with every person on this forum because we all fall short of The Glory of God. The God who this great history book was written. Man to man generation to generation. There is only one that I don't believe that you can fault with in this great book of history and that is Jesus. You see Bill, Bamboo is right about his buddy Mathew. But so is sc-bee's about his friend John. I appeal to you, you being a learned man and a well read man, that not only will you see the Bible for its historical value, but be enlightened in a spiritual way and find a peace that goes beyond all understanding from this book. The book that your fore fathers, my forefathers brought with them to Australia and America from England. Will you read Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and see what these friends of Jesus had to say about him? Thank you for you time Bill , I would like to be your friend not a foe. God Bless You.... Sincerely, Phillip Hall
This thread is stating to get out of line and totally off topic. This is not the coffee house and there are too many direct attacks.
Either we get back on topic or I lock this one down.
Jim
Quote from: Bamboo on April 08, 2018, 07:50:35 AM
Geez SC
Chill man! Maybe you should move on from John and read Mathew 22:39.
You are correct sir ... I am nothing but a sinner who stumbles... at least you saw my quote... should I be thankful or ashamed. I am both.... thankful you read it and ashamed I let things get to me.. I took you advice... done... Thanks
Quote from: eltalia on April 07, 2018, 04:01:01 AM
"But then again it could be me as I only check in from time to time. "
C Ya.. happy trails, you an' John both.
Guess I am slow... until Benframed posted I did not catch the John remark. Bill, now you attitude towards me all makes sense. Actually your entire attitude on the forum makes sense... The scripture quote is reaching out to you.... HOW AWESOME.... Bill I am adding you to my prayer list. I pray you have understanding and find peace within Brother.
And Bamboo you called me to task.. I hope it is as a brother in Christ and not a non- believer making light of the matter. Thanks anyway... it made me do some soul searching.....Let us all PRAY for both sides of the POND....ALL SIDES OF THE POND(S)
God Bless To All...
Steve