I got a five frame nuc 2 days ago. Successfully installed it (I think I saw the queen). I have a lot to learn.
I decided to build a 4 frame nuc system after watching a lot of videos by Michael Palmer. I won't experience the same winters as he here in the tropics of Queensland, but I am sure there are benefits to a nuc system for me too.
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I conducted my first inspection today. FYI, because I am running 4 frames wide and the new nuc was 5 frames, I place the two outside frames in the centre of the top box and the cenre three frames in the bottom box. All spare spaces were filled with foundation.
I am keen to receive any help/observations from what you see in the photos here as I have no experience.
In the two days since install, they have consumed about 1L of 1:1 syrup.
Inside top box. Is the SHB trap too tight in there?
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Frame 3 top box
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Frame 2 top box
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Frame 4 bottom box
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Frame 3 bottom box
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Frame 2 bottom box
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My observations:
The bees were alive and calm. I used a couple of puffs of smoke before opening the hive, then none after. I was not able to see the queen or any evidence of egg laying, however I have no experience. There were a couple of emergency cells? which I squashed gently. There are a few small hive beetles running around in there.
I am willing to take any and all advice to help with my learning at this early stage .
Quote from: wiifm on May 06, 2018, 04:50:04 AM
There were a couple of emergency cells? which I squashed gently.
No brood and you killed emergency cells? Bad intervention. Number one newbie mistake, doesn't ask questions before doing something. The hard way to learn.
If there are no open larva in there, and I don't see any, you don't have a nuc. I would take it back and get a replacement or my money back.
Quote from: Acebird on May 06, 2018, 08:46:08 AM
Quote from: wiifm on May 06, 2018, 04:50:04 AM
There were a couple of emergency cells? which I squashed gently.
No brood and you killed emergency cells? Bad intervention. Number one newbie mistake, doesn't ask questions before doing something. The hard way to learn.
Firstly, are they emergency cells? Are you seeing no brood also?
I see bees, honey and pollen. What I don't see capped brood, open brood and the queen. I don't really expect to see the queen in your photos, but I would expect to see at least a full frames worth of brood. If you saw the queen then she hasn't started laying yet(or is a dud). Was this an established nuc or was it five frames that a queen was added and sold as a nuc? I'm with iddee. You don't have a nuc.
Wiifm,
I?m with Iddee and CAO. Take it back and get a real Nuc. Putting 5 frames in a box with some bees does not make a Nuc.
Jim
Wilfm - looks like an Aptitore on top of your frames.
Apitore contains Fibronil and should NEVER be placed on top of frames as the condensation will carry the poison to the honey and bees
Mate as all the others have said "You have been sold a pup!"
That is not a nuc there is no brood, capped or otherwise. As a new beekeeper it is sometimes hard to see the queen but if there is a queen there and she is healthy, there will be eggs, larvae and pupae plus capped brood. I don't see any of that. I would also be concerned that there were replacement queen cells in a nuc that you just bought not a good sign for one. With none of the above and the fact that you have destroyed the 2 replacement QC's the bees that you are looking at have no chance to raise a replacement queen as there are no eggs. All those bees will be dead in a few weeks and you will have an empty hive.
I know you live in the winter less north but I am a little concerned that someone would be selling you a nuc going into winter. Up there altho not cold you don't get a flow during winter and you have just come out of a really wet season.
My advice is to go back to the person who sold you this and ask for your money back. Buy a nuc from someone reputable come spring. Now is not the time of year to start off your hives.
Join a beekeeping club as well, people that are used to keeping bees up there plus they will be able to help you in spring get set up with bees properly.
Also remember that a lot of the contributions from people here on the forum are in the USA and they are going in to spring and Summer while we are heading in to winter. How they are managing their bees at the moment is completely different to what we are doing.
Good luck.
Thanks all for your advice. I have contacted the supplier and he is visiting with me on Wednesday to resolve the issue. He's claiming his boys gave me the wrong box and we are going to do a swap.
@Bamboo, I'm aware that it's not an ideal time of the year to start, but my plan is to keep the feed up to them until I get them into 'spring'.
Quote from: wiifm on May 06, 2018, 07:25:02 PM
@Bamboo, I'm aware that it's not an ideal time of the year to start, but my plan is to keep the feed up to them until I get them into 'spring'.
It would be wrong to sell a newbie anything other than an established hive in the fall without 100% guarantee that you would have a viable hive in the spring. I hope this guy makes it right for you.
Thanks for your concern @Acebird. It looks like he will come through with the goods. I don't know if there are any guarantees in beekeeping, but I do expect to receive a colony with a laying queen.
Quote from: wiifm on May 06, 2018, 04:16:04 AM
I got a five frame nuc 2 days ago. Successfully installed it (I think I saw the queen). I have a lot to learn.
As much as I do loathe RTFM comments I am going to ask most politely, have you?
ANY printed material with photos?
My opinion only in saying managing towered nuclei is a skill on it's own...and often
undertaken by muchly experienced apiarists with mobilty troubles.
Bill
Quote from: wiifm on May 06, 2018, 07:25:02 PM
Thanks all for your advice. I have contacted the supplier and he is visiting with me on Wednesday to resolve the issue. He's claiming his boys gave me the wrong box and we are going to do a swap.
@Bamboo, I'm aware that it's not an ideal time of the year to start, but my plan is to keep the feed up to them until I get them into 'spring'.
Feeding...?.. in Cairns!! :rollseyes:
Bill
Quote from: Acebird on May 06, 2018, 08:20:06 PM
Quote from: wiifm on May 06, 2018, 07:25:02 PM
@Bamboo, I'm aware that it's not an ideal time of the year to start, but my plan is to keep the feed up to them until I get them into 'spring'.
It would be wrong to sell a newbie anything other than an established hive in the fall without 100% guarantee that you would have a viable hive in the spring. I hope this guy makes it right for you.
Rest assured Brian... I am not this supplier.
Of course you would not have such a thoughty, buuuuut;
Just so I know you know :-))))
Bill
relax @eltalia. No one, least of all me is accusing you of having sold me the box of bees.
I have read plenty for the past month (enough to make the conscious decision to build towered nucs). And I am sure their will be no end of more reading.
One of the things I have read and heard from multiple sources is to feed 1:1 syrup for a month after installing a nuc. Also, going into dry season with no knowledge of local flows causes me to er on the side of feeding.
Ultimately, the best learning is in the doing. I can see why you'd fear the worst. A guy with his first posts showing a non laying nuc in a towered nuc system feeding bees. I am a fast learner. Hopefully I can get through this first year without damaging too many bees or your optic nerve in the meantime :cool:
@wiifm wrote in part;
"A guy with his first posts showing a non laying nuc in a towered nuc system feeding bees. "
[nodding]
... certainly not a good look, no.
We (BMA) do not get so many virgin b'keeps posting here - no doubt many read
tho' - and maybe that scarcity is partly 'cos I know all here remain as enthusiastic
as that day smoke ran across their first frame, and bees went down, but the
wisdom...?... well that tower is rock solid.
Feeding Apis.m above 28S Lat. in this Country has to indicate one of two
unchangeable facets of beekeeping;
a) local conditions deny bees an existance
b) in the eye of the owner bees are another pet pu55y
Cairns - Far North Queensland - is most definitely not Cat a).
And Cat b) is yet to reveal itself.
....welcome. Mind how you go, enjoy!
Bill
I'm gonna name all my queens Martha. Thanks for the welcome Bill
Quote from: wiifm on May 07, 2018, 07:18:30 PM
I'm gonna name all my queens Martha. Thanks for the welcome Bill
I know there is a joke in here but I am missing it, can you in the words of a QLD "politician" "Please explain?" :cool:
Quote from: Bamboo on May 07, 2018, 07:32:55 PM
Quote from: wiifm on May 07, 2018, 07:18:30 PM
I'm gonna name all my queens Martha. Thanks for the welcome Bill
I know there is a joke in here but I am missing it, can you in the words of a QLD "politician" "Please explain?" :cool:
Hanson is no politician, more like a rager with no clothes!
But yeah... "please explain" fits well. :-))
Quote from: eltalia on May 07, 2018, 08:34:37 PM
Hanson is no politician, more like a rager with no clothes!
But yeah... "please explain" fits well. :-))
Exactly the reason I put the quote marks.....I knew you would get it. :cheesy:
Thread hijack.... Please explain for the rest of us or get back on track. :angry:
Quote from: iddee on May 07, 2018, 09:57:11 PM
Thread hijack.... Please explain for the rest of us or get back on track. :angry:
Yer had to be there Wally ;-))
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pfNoto58fQM
IF you can handle some truths the excerpt of her story is here;
https://m.you tube.com/watch?v=0rtNlYUezIU
Cheers.
Bill
Quote from: Bamboo on May 07, 2018, 07:32:55 PM
Quote from: wiifm on May 07, 2018, 07:18:30 PM
I'm gonna name all my queens Martha. Thanks for the welcome Bill
I know there is a joke in here but I am missing it, can you in the words of a QLD "politician" "Please explain?" :cool:
It was a reference to a joke Michael Palmer makes in more than one of his videos. He names his queens. They are all named Martha. If Martha is not performing, he replaces her with Martha.
@wiifm
Ahh I get it now. When I kept bees in NZ my daughter was only 3 and she wanted to know what their names were so I decided on Mary. She was quite happy with that and from that day forward every bee was Mary.
I like your moniker as well, you don't have to explain that one to me :cool: :cool:
Quote from: wiifm on May 07, 2018, 11:22:29 PM
Quote from: Bamboo on May 07, 2018, 07:32:55 PM
Quote from: wiifm on May 07, 2018, 07:18:30 PM
I'm gonna name all my queens Martha. Thanks for the welcome Bill
I know there is a joke in here but I am missing it, can you in the words of a QLD "politician" "Please explain?" :cool:
It was a reference to a joke Michael Palmer makes in more than one of his videos. He names his queens. They are all named Martha. If Martha is not performing, he replaces her with Martha.
ahhh..Letterman humour. (nods)
https://www.google.com.au/url?q=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Letterman&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjOpIai2fXaAhUBy7wKHbbAB_cQFgheMAo&usg=AOvVaw0zx0hQf9pF13Okz7-U7Ff2
That's a relief, for a minute there it was touch 'n go as to whether you were havin' a go!
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Not%20know%20whether%20one%20is%20Arthur%20or%20Martha
All good, no worries ;-))))
Let us know how you get on with Wednesday's meet, good luck :-)
Bill
#wiifm
Just noticed your hive stand which I must say looks pretty nice.
When you join your local beekeepers club it might pay to ask what height works best up there. I understood from my conversations with other beeks that a minimum of 600mm off the ground is necessary to stop the cane toads having lunch and dinner at your hive!
At heights less than that they can either jump onto the landing board or get their mates and pyramid to get a feed.
@eltalia would know.
Cheers
Mark
@Bamboo, I plagiarised a stand I saw at the local association meeting last month. It would sit about 300mm above flat ground (maybe more), but I had to knock it into the uneven ground to make it level in this spot.
Swapped boxes with the seller today. He swapped one of my foundations for one of the frames in the first nuc and shook some bees into the box that I am keeping.
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@Bamboo, he did tell me I need to raise my stand because the cane toads will have a feed. I'll make it a project for the weekend.
They can't be screened out?
Quote from: Acebird on May 09, 2018, 08:35:51 AM
They can't be screened out?
It is not so much that they get in to the hive and cause problems , although this has been known to happen with fatal consequences to the toad. It is more that they sit at the entrance and gorge on the bees and are smart enough to jump onto a landing board if it is not high enough. They are also known to pyramid to get to landing board however at a height of about 600mm these issues are overcome.
These cane toads were introduced to wipe out a beetle in the sugar cane industry back in the 1930's. As is the case when man tries to fix one problem with a predator he creates an even worse one, so it is with the cane toads they started off in the north of Queensland and are now such a pest they have been found as far south as Sydney in New South Wales. They are predator free as they are poisonous to all animals.
Just one of the vagaries of keeping bees in Queensland.
Thanks for the explanation @Bamboo. I will add that the Northern Territory has had them for years and they have been seen in WA also.
Cane toads do have some predators: som opposums will eat them, Meat Ants will kill the, Crows, some of our native frogs will predate on the, some snakes...nature adapts
We have bears that not only eat the larvae and honey they tear up the equipment. Only solution is electric fence or move the hives. Maybe a couple of hot wires on the landing board would deter them.
Quote from: max2 on May 10, 2018, 01:28:24 AM
Cane toads do have some predators: som opposums will eat them, Meat Ants will kill the, Crows, some of our native frogs will predate on the, some snakes...nature adapts
Is there anyway to block them from getting near the entrance?
Quote from: moebees on May 10, 2018, 11:36:01 AM
Quote from: max2 on May 10, 2018, 01:28:24 AM
Cane toads do have some predators: som opposums will eat them, Meat Ants will kill the, Crows, some of our native frogs will predate on the, some snakes...nature adapts
Is there anyway to block them from getting near the entrance?
I'd say the least complicated solution is to raise the hive stand. I bought some more steel today and will cut lengths to sleeve the existing legs. This will allow me to have telescopic legs for uneven ground.
@wiifm
You want 450mm minimum.
And I reitterate (sp?).. sack that fella, he does you nor us (industry)
no good at all. End of.
Bill
Quote from: eltalia on May 12, 2018, 06:20:39 AM
@wiifm
You want 450mm minimum.
And I reitterate (sp?).. sack that fella, he does you nor us (industry)
no good at all. End of.
Bill
Great. I can sort the height problem tomorrow.
Quote from: wiifm on May 12, 2018, 06:40:08 AM
Quote from: eltalia on May 12, 2018, 06:20:39 AM
@wiifm
You want 450mm minimum.
And I reitterate (sp?).. sack that fella, he does you nor us (industry)
no good at all. End of.
Bill
Great. I can sort the height problem tomorrow.
Lissunin' to Macca I am reminded of TFGP** so best I mention the other
three so as I know you do know;
GreenAnts - hive bodies under shrubs and low hanging trees can be attacked
by these. There have been reports of them climbing up into entrances also but
not in my experience. These guys take no prisioners and will ckean a colony up
inside of 48hours. Please do not kill GA nests, thry are a vital component of our
local ecosystem.
Wax Moth - most prevalent during warmer rainy periods most strong colonys
handle these on their own but keep an eye out on broodchamber inspections.
IF a screened bottom board is in place pay particular attention, likewise for SHB
Roaches, Earwigs, Frogs - all small bananas and usually require no intervention
by the b'keep.
Aside from that work it is paradise, particularly right now. Enjoy ;-)))
Bill
---------
**The "FairGo" Priniciple
Yes today was a glorious day. Bees were a bit unhappy with me for moving them around to raise the hive stand. The 'telescopic' legs worked well.
I was able to confirm eggs in the brood, so now at least I have a laying queen.
Will post a photo and a question when I am in front of a computer to resize images.
@wiifm
Pleased you got it sorted re the "nuc" and the height of the hive.
Not sure if you are getting @eltalia's drift or not but I would concur that the person who sold you the "nuc" really shouldn't have. Even his replacement looks a bit sus to me.
I know you are now committed and probably can't do anything about it now but in the spring if you are looking for another nuc I would strongly suggest you find another supplier.
Talk to people in your club about who the reputable ones are for nucs up your way. They will know the ones to avoid and the ones to rely on, local knowledge is a powerful thing.
Good luck with everything and I hope your nuc develops into a strong hive.
@Bamboo, Bill was pretty direct about it lol, so I caught the drift :) There is not much that can be done about it now. I was aware it is late in the season going into this, so I will just have to deal with what I've got
This is the frame I observed eggs on, but there is also a couple of cells to the left hand side
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Closer view. What do you suggest I do (or note) about these?
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So how many frames are in the nuc? 5? What is the situation with the other frames? Honey capped? Empty foundation? That frame is 3/4 full of honey so there is not much laying room for the queen.
Eggs and Larvae are good so at least you know you have a laying queen. One of those frames has really scattered brood in one of the previous pics, a sign of not a good queen. Was it a new queen do you know?
I am not seeing a lot of bees in any of the pics. I am hoping they have been shaken off for photography purposes? Some of that brood looks due to hatch so maybe the numbers will increase a bit.
Let us know about the other frames. Cheers
The box is set up as 4 over 4. I ended up with 6 frames from the seller and added 2 foundation frames. The frame pictured above is one of the top centre frames with a foundation frame facing it's opposite side. More bees in the bottom of the box. I may have been heavy on the smoke.
Just a quick post. @eltalia will be pleased to hear, I stopped feeding them 10 days ago. Checked on them today and they appear to be doing well. More capped brood than I have previously seen and eggs in all the empty cells on those frames too.
Quote from: wiifm on June 02, 2018, 01:16:18 AM
Just a quick post. @eltalia will be pleased to hear, I stopped feeding them 10 days ago. Checked on them today and they appear to be doing well. More capped brood than I have previously seen and eggs in all the empty cells on those frames too.
Heh Hehh.. can I say Duntoljaso! :laffs:
Our colonys all shut down yesterday right on cue
as June 1 bought Winter on... plunged to 12C overnight
and didn't get above 18C till 10AM.
I was tempted to do as they but the paddock is crying
for corn planting so I had to get to it and hug the tractor
to stay warm, sort of. :-)))
Good news maaate, stick with it.
Bill
Quote from: eltalia on June 02, 2018, 06:22:36 AM
Heh Hehh.. can I say Duntoljaso! :laffs:
yes :embarassed:
Pleased to hear it WIIFM.
@eltalia yes 1 June cold one here as well dropped to 7C overnight. We are getting nice mid 20C days though.
@wiifm
You came in late to enjoy the "old ways" with todays work
now requiring inspection at least every brood cycle, eye out
for P&D but rest assured unless you are into rescue and/or
experimenting with options in expansion and queening there
will never need to be a time to feed supplement to bees.
And provided the bees are packed down with lots of stores for
The Wet they easily manage foraging on their own.
Any more I'll keep an ear to the ground for you, only too
happy to assist where I can. :-)))
@bamboo
Yep, as long as it does not rain we are laughin' here, lots of
bloom around with a couple of the stacks smelling real sweet
on sundown. I am looking after two recovering 'deadouts',
greenant attacks brought to me for requeening and even
those are looking good despite being low on foragers. I reckon
some younger bees got a hotswap lesson in flight training!!
Stay warm. :-))
Bill
@eltalia, I am looking forward to doing some queen breeding for my own purposes, but obviously that will happen AFTER the cold
Heh... through circumstance beyond my control (bushfire) I am right now
into raising a queen for one nucleus.
It' cold, fersuckn cold, with frosts a few mornings and nights hitting
four degrees buuuut days are still holding 18/20 and much bloom around.
So...worth a punt. ;-))
Bill
@eltalia, how do you intend to raise your queen this late in the season?
Quote from: wiifm on June 07, 2018, 07:55:00 PM
@eltalia, how do you intend to raise your queen this late in the season?
No problem with that here, it's cold nights but bees fly at 9:AM
and if not cloudy don't pack it in till 5:PM.
The Wet is our(your) winter, for queen raising and like other activity
as "wintering" precludes.
On the coast (now) you can chase the eucalypt forage up around
Ellis Beach and Hartley's, or take a run up the Rex
Hopefully I can get to check for built cells tomorrow. :-)
Bill
Okay. Yes FYI my bees are just on the north side of Kuranda with eucalyptus in bloom less than 50m away. The bees are bringing in yellow and white pollen.
Quote from: wiifm on June 10, 2018, 06:21:19 PM
Okay. Yes FYI my bees are just on the north side of Kuranda with eucalyptus in bloom less than 50m away. The bees are bringing in yellow and white pollen.
Yer laffin', good allround country there :-)))
Home is on the edge of the rainforest up against cropping lands and
orchards of sorts around us... where the attached are seen today.
My outyard is placed similar to your location being against a creek
well into open woodlands. Checked them today and both colonies are
booming , so they know something I cannot see. Weeks of empty
broodcomb are today all gleamingly shiny with many packed with
eggs and week old larvae. One colony is linebred the other maybe
second generation mutts after a mishap during the Wet.
Hard tp say just yet which is superior until the flow starts fair dinkum.
Bill
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@eltalia, how is your queen raising going?