Would be fairly devastating to have that sort of mortality rate. It states that 20% suspect that the deaths were caused by pesticides. With that sort of hive loss does anyone know whether there is any investigation as to the actual causes or is it supposition? i.e. post mortem on the bees to determine cause of death.
Here is the link to the article
https://www.ontariobee.com/sites/ontariobee.com/files/document/Ontario_Beekeepers_Experience_Overwhelming_Losses.pdf
One would think with good record keeping the causes could be identified. They do mention long winter so does that automatically mean starvation?
Seems with that level of population loss there will be significant losses to crops requiring pollination as well or do northern US beeks shift their hives to Canada for pollination?
?Seems with that level of population loss there will be significant losses to crops requiring pollination as well or do northern US beeks shift their hives to Canada for pollination??
Unless they have changed the rules, the answer is no. I believe, in order to do it, they have to pass an inspection and then a long quarantine. I remember a beekeeper who had his hives on the boarder with a narrow river boundary. Their bees were crossing the boarder but they could not take the hives across. It was ironic.
Maybe someone on the boarder will know the present rules.
Jim
I have been looking at some of the Canadian numbers and Ontario, by far has the most amount of beeks of over 3000 and yet they have only 16% of hives whereas Alberta has less than a thousand beeks and 41% of hives. Interesting, without delving deeper it looks like much larger commercial operations in Alberta. Maybe they may shift some to Ontario for pollination. I suppose it depends on what pays best for them, honey or pollination.
Quote from: Bamboo on May 19, 2018, 08:23:39 AM
Seems with that level of population loss there will be significant losses to crops requiring pollination as well or do northern US beeks shift their hives to Canada for pollination?
The Canadian border has been closed to US bees for a long time. They get their packages from Australia and New Zealand. So no, hives cannot be moved across the border for pollination.
Losses run 80% in my area of Illinois. 70% is not remarkable.
My overwintering story is mixed. I keep bees indoors. Prior to indoor wintering I had huge losses every year. At times 100% loss. When I moved to my current house I started keeping bees indoors. This last winter I went from 12 hives to 1. Prior to this winter I had not lost a single hive in my shed. Last year I split to aggressively. I then had a few weeks of nearly constant subzero temps. I used a new heater which proved insufficient and had electric issues. The result was a quick drop to three hives. Lost the other two this spring.
Quote from: Bush_84 on May 19, 2018, 01:27:29 PM
My overwintering story is mixed. I keep bees indoors. Prior to indoor wintering I had huge losses every year. At times 100% loss. When I moved to my current house I started keeping bees indoors. This last winter I went from 12 hives to 1. Prior to this winter I had not lost a single hive in my shed. Last year I split to aggressively. I then had a few weeks of nearly constant subzero temps. I used a new heater which proved insufficient and had electric issues. The result was a quick drop to three hives. Lost the other two this spring.
You guys have it rough in the cold areas. We have hive beetles and y'all have bitter cold. The life of the honey bee is always in jeopardy, it seems.
Quote from: moebees on May 19, 2018, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Bamboo on May 19, 2018, 08:23:39 AM
Seems with that level of population loss there will be significant losses to crops requiring pollination as well or do northern US beeks shift their hives to Canada for pollination?
The Canadian border has been closed to US bees for a long time. They get their packages from Australia and New Zealand. So no, hives cannot be moved across the border for pollination.
Losses run 80% in my area of Illinois. 70% is not remarkable.
So how on earth do you run a business if you lose 80% of your stock every year? It would make it unsustainable. Or are you saying that the 80% losses are from backyard beekeepers and not commercial operations?
Some commercials kill all their bees and start fresh in the spring. When bees die in winter the hive doesn't get robbed, attached by wax moths, ants or beetles, so all the honey is harvest-able.
Quote from: Acebird on May 20, 2018, 07:40:27 PM
Some commercials kill all their bees and start fresh in the spring. When bees die in winter the hive doesn't get robbed, attached by wax moths, ants or beetles, so all the honey is harvest-able.
That is probably true in the north, but not in the south, where critters are active year round.
I thought we were talking about Ontario?
Ace,
I have read the same idea about the far north area. To expensive to try to keep them alive when most of them die off anyway.
Jim
Last I heard (which has been quite a few years mind you) the university of Minnesota was still teaching this.
Twenty five years in Montana and I never saw an overwintered beehive. Migratory beekeepers would bring hives in yearly. I believe the wind was more of a threat than the cold. Yet next door in the Dakotas is one of the heaviest Honey producing states.
Yellow jackets with their deep ground nest were prolific. Native Americans would hang raw meat 100 feet from camp to distract the yellow jackets.
Don?t even think of taking anything alive into Canada. If you ever had a DUI, you would not be allowed entry. Hunting parties of Americans all excited about their hunting trip would be stopped cold at the border if one member had a DUI. That member with the DUI could not cross the border into Canada causing the whole bunch of hunters to return home. I felt so bad for those fellas.
BTW, a single old already fired empty pistol shell found in your vehicle by Troopers while trying to cross the Canadian border, well you would think they found drugs. You are in serious trouble. Pistols are not allowed in Canada and a discarded 22 shell casing left under the car seat that you weren?t even aware of would cause you a nightmare. Your car would be dismantled.
So don?t even think of taking bees into Canada, you would go to jail even innocent of heart.
Blessings
In Alaska they kill off the hives after robbing all the honey. Set fire with gasoline on the hives. Then next Spring they
would ship packages up there. How sad!
Gosh I am very fortunate to bee keeping bees in the climate I do.
There must be serious money to be made from pollination /honey if you are able to completely restock your capital equipment, hives and then buy the bees every year.
Can someone give me figures of what commercial beeks get for honey and pollination services? Do they buy nucs and what is the cost of a nuc over there say for a 5 frame. What do commercial beeks run for supers, full depth, mediums?
Quote from: beepro on May 20, 2018, 11:16:31 PM
In Alaska they kill off the hives after robbing all the honey. Set fire with gasoline on the hives. Then next Spring they
would ship packages up there. How sad!
I?d be surprised if they burn their equipment. What is the purpose? You may as well just shake them out and store your equipment.
At the end of the flow they will have a very strong hive with nothing for the bees to do. Messing with that many
bees is looking for trouble if they don't have a place to go in. I'm not really sure how they do it but burning with
gasoline is what I've heard from a beek up there. The finer details I did not ask must be too graphic for the description. They just want
the honey not the bees at the end of the season.
Just 2 days ago I broke down 2 deep nuc hives to get the foragers during the day time. The returning foragers and the
confused bees nearby were everywhere, thousands of them. My heart started pumping fast and very nervous seeing so many bees
surrounding me. It was like being inside a swarm of bees making loud buzzing sound. This was so I can combine 2 hives, each 4 stack deep nucs full of bees at every stages into one queen less hive. Enough to make one's head spinning and heart pounding!
How do they bee keep in Norway, Finland etc, must be the same cold as Canada.
Never heard of dumping bees for winter and starting again.
Can Canadian bees cross into the U.S?
If so why not sell them to southern states in US to use for Spring pollination.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 21, 2018, 06:31:03 AM
If so why not sell them to southern states in US to use for Spring pollination.
Who buys warn out bees in the fall with no resources to make it through winter?
Ok I am missing something here.
I do not see how they make any money out of keeping bees commercially.
So you tell me they burn their hives at the end of the season.
I am assuming that means brood box, 10 frames, bottom board and lid.
Based on Dadant prices and I figure they probably get a discount for buying in bulk but even so:
Super $13.95
10 Frames $13.95
Foundation $10.00
Lid $12.00
Bottom board $18.00
=$67.90
Latest published USDA honey prices is say an avg of $2 per pound.
Let's say 100 pounds per hive per season =$200 per hive per season.
Kellys sell a 5 frame nuc for $195 probably discounted as well $150-$120?? So lets say $120.
Lets also assume they can put together a box for $50 so we have a total cost of $170.
Leaving $30 for transport costs, wages, extraction costs, Insurance, pension, depreciation, etc etc. I have deliberately left out profit cos there aint any!
Can someone tell me how they make money then?
Most people around here bring their bees down south for the winter. I don?t have that luxury. So I keep my bees indoors.
Quote from: Bamboo on May 21, 2018, 09:15:24 AM
So you tell me they burn their hives at the end of the season.
Some people interchange the word hive with colony. Nobody is burning their equipment.
If you want to do a cost analysis you have to compare the costs of overwintering to the costs of replacing the colonies.
A lot of the commercial operators are migratory in the US. Instead of destroying the colonies they move them south in fall and run them north in the spring. Certainly there are costs associated with that. Apparently the costs are less then replacement or timing of pollination enters the picture.
On bee scorce forum, an ohio bee keeper broke down his cost. He buys packages every year for about 70 bucks each. He puts them in hives with drawn comb and then keeps the brood frames down to about 5 or 6. On the hives that make more brood then that, he pulls the brood and starts more hives for sale or honey. He averages about 140 lbs of honey per package. At the end of the year he used to just shake the out but now has package producers come up and shake out the bees into packages. I think he makes another thirty or so bucks per package and the package buyers come and get them and do the shakeing. He does not have to leave anything in the hive for the bees to winter on and has to spend no money on treatments and such.
He is very happy with what he produces for the work involved.
Cheers
gww
There is a fellow, who lives in Canada who seems to be pretty successful at not only bee keeping but overwintering his bees there. I am talking about a commercial operation . He, along with his family, run cows, farm, and run the bee business. All seem to go hand and hand. They seem to be very successful in their operation. This is found on YouTube. Very interesting to me. Short little blogs that go on from dad to day life. The videos are usually anywhere form 2-5 minutes give or take. " A Canadian Beekeeers Blog "
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCkQVs6-xm3mVNdwW4Zt8McQ
Your vidio does not work. Is the beekeeper Ian steppler? He has great vidios.
Still, what does it matter if he is successful if the guy that shakes out is also successful. Most people keep bees so they can get something from them. Ian feeds lots of fall feed to get the hives back up to winter weight. The ohio guy does not have to worry about loss rate or treating or bee health and the labor involved. There is more then one way to skin a cat and usually there is no right or wrong but only wether your kids have shoes or not.
Cheers
gww
Acebird, may be not in NY, but what about Florida, or Southern states.
In Australia our subtropical areas really don't have a serious winter, I suppose cartage would be an issue, but if you got the hive for a low price?
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 21, 2018, 05:12:48 PM
Acebird, may be not in NY, but what about Florida, or Southern states.
Yes, FL and southern states are a different story but the topic is Ontario Canada.
Just because the loss may be high in one part of Canada, there are others which are very successful in Canada in comparison. Methods and management of keeping bees vary as well as the success rate in doing so... Ian Steppler is a good example of just that... We have folks here in the states with similar loss problems and varying percentage losses. I was taking to a couple at a farmers market in my area recently. They told me they suffered great losses last season. While others in my area, 'the generally same area', faried quite well. What is the difference? A number of things I would dare to say. Management and knowing how to properly manage may be the biggest asset? Gaining substantial knowledge then putting that knowledge into practice may be our most important tool?
Quote from: Acebird on May 21, 2018, 08:09:29 AM
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 21, 2018, 06:31:03 AM
If so why not sell them to southern states in US to use for Spring pollination.
Who buys warn out bees in the fall with no resources to make it through winter?
If I was looking to build my numbers quickly, then why not keep super with honey from the season, bring bees in and add a super of stores. if you could buy them cheap enough / compared to burning, surely a hive of bees that is wintered and then goes pollinating will give you a good return.
There is a saying " if you make bees you won't make honey".