[attachment=0][/attachment]
My hives were all strapped, the only thing that saved my hives. The hives were to heavy for me to lift so I called friends for help. These bees were mad, I have never seen such mad bees. Even with heavy smoke and my jacket with veil I was chased into the woods. My legs were stung up bad as I just wear jeans. I removed stingers from my jeans for 1/2 hour. The hives in the back of my apiary are TF hives which are kind of defensive, but my gosh, after the bear damage these bees wanted to kill someone.
One hive, the nuc in the pic, is only forty feet from my back door. My concern is the bear will be back, tonight. Oh no, not a good day.
The nuc in the upper photo has the bottom board screwed to the hive body, in this case, a good thing.
[attachment=0][/attachment]
6 hives were knocked over, some drag down hill, some of the hives were strapped to the stand so the bear knocked the whole thing over, stand and hive.
He will be back tonight. I would be waiting with a 12 Gage with either buck shot or rock salt, depending on local game laws.
[attachment=0][/attachment]
Another hive showing my screened bottom board, again, the straps saved my hives. This particular hive was dragged six feet from the stand.
Quote from: iddee on September 09, 2018, 04:47:46 PM
He will be back tonight. I would be waiting with a 12 Gage with either buck shot or rock salt, depending on local game laws.
Wallace, my wife would agree with you, the lil lady is about ready to put this house on the market and she wants me to carry a side arm at night, A SIDE ARM!!!!! If the bear comes back I will probably have to provide professional therapy for my sweetie pie.
Well, I wouldn't want to face a bear with my little 2 in. barrel .32, but I would be waiting for him with something more fitting for the occasion.
Van,
Sorry to hear about the attack. I would definitely have at least a 357 magnum or a 12 guage with double alt buck. Sp.
I know it is late but you really need a good strong electric fence to stop that bear. If you do put one up, be sure to hang a piece of lunch meat in the wire. It worked great for my problem bear.
Jim
Sorry for your bad luck, Van. Wally and Jim are dead on right. Once they know the address they will not stop until stopped. Possibly game and fish will trap and remove but I suspect their help will be slow in coming. Bears are tough, once you shoot keep shooting till he stops wiggling! :smile:
Mr Van, dang bear!! I am thinking that I would probably bust a cap on him also!! I don't have bears here but something did knock one of my hives over a month or so ago and it was strapped. All looked to be well and in one piece until I opened it up!! What a mess!! The jar of the fall pancaked the wax together and The wax was indeed stacked like pancakes, jared loose from the frames. Killed many bees I treated it as a cut out and salvaged what I could with rubber banding the remnants back in the frames. Couldn't find the queen and panicked: I bought some queens from David at barnyard bees !! All turned out better that the first! I just simply made splits with what was left. Best to you sir and if you didn't have time to put up the electric fence today, I would very strongly suggest the heavy duty firearm tonight!! God Bless you my friend..
Sincerely; Phillip
Quote from: herbhome on September 09, 2018, 10:43:39 PM
Sorry for your bad luck, Van. Wally and Jim are dead on right. Once they know the address they will not stop until stopped. Possibly game and fish will trap and remove but I suspect their help will be slow in coming. Bears are tough, once you shoot keep shooting till he stops wiggling! :smile:
And then shoot one more time !! 😁
I disagree because the more you shoot the more they will come. It is not the answer. Put up an
electric fence will deter them since you have so many hives on the same location. If you cannot move them to
another location then you have to protect them this winter. The bear will not give up that easily now that they found your
hives. These are hungry bears. Deter and protect the hives!
At least You may help Yourself!
In Germany first one may not own a gun. Second if You own a gun (legally, quite a process) and shoot a bear (which are just arriving again in Germany) or a wolf (we got those again...) you get a sentence worse than if You shot a kid....
We have some bears in a park just down the road. There are also some hives just across the fence put there by our bees-club. One of the bears lived wild in Romania. He keeps ripping out bushes and stacking them against the electric fence, cause he learned how to get at the bees despite the fence.... Of course, this is an animal-park-fence. He will not get the better of it as long as there is some voltage to speak of.
good luck!
I`d go for a strong gun, too. And then fencing.
I would try other options before shooting bear. Are you going to shoot the next bear that shows up and the one after that. There is not just one bear around, how many need to be shot.
The bear did not return last night. I did Shine a spot light several times during the night, no bear. My hives are strapped even tighter. All the bear can do is knock over and roll hives.
Arkansas has some very serious game laws: it is illegal to shot a reptile, even a deadly snake. Shooting a bear out of season for any reason, would be very expensive and may even cause jail time.
The bear indeed may return, but he is going to find hives locked up even tighter than his orginial visit.
Thanks for all the post.
The strict law is the reason for rock salt. Hard to convict a man if there is no lead, but the salt tells the bear the area isn't a good place to dine.
You betya ID. I don?t have reloading equipment for shotshells, so no rock salt, strappes first, then electric fence will be my next defense. I sold my arsenal when I moved from Montana to Arkansas. I kept 22 calibers, that is it. I have a dog, rescued pup that is a whopper: 10 pounds of cuttie.
Very dry year in Arkansas, never seen bears at this location past 8 years. This is Oak country and acorns are in short supply this year.
Quote from: beepro on September 10, 2018, 02:40:05 AM
I disagree because the more you shoot the more they will come. It is not the answer. Put up an
electric fence will deter them since you have so many hives on the same location. If you cannot move them to
another location then you have to protect them this winter. The bear will not give up that easily now that they found your
hives. These are hungry bears. Deter and protect the hives!
beepro, I answered his post at 10 pm last night. Do you really believe he would have time to go out and buy electric fencing materiel at that time of night , even if he could find a place that was open? Goodness man!!!! At 10 pm there is only one option.. well two. He could either say Mr Bear, bee pro doesn't want me to shoot you so please go away. Or he could and should protect his Propetry. Now, today is a different matter. I'm sure Mr Van has time to gather the needed supplies to build an excellent fence.
If you go the rock salt route mix in some hot pepper powder like a chili or habenaro powder. It makes the sting a bit more real.
Van, did you see this bear? Bears usually bust up the hive into pieces. Straps are child's play for a bear.
I am thinking like Ace, look for tracks, maybe these bears wear shoes. A game camera would solve the mystery They have become very reasonable and with no flash only IR illuminated pictures. Some of these cameras have definition that is better than my expensive Nikon, that I bought 10 years ago.
Quote from: paus on September 10, 2018, 05:34:27 PM
I am thinking like Ace, look for tracks, maybe these bears wear shoes. A game camera would solve the mystery They have become very reasonable and with no flash only IR illuminated pictures. Some of these cameras have definition that is better than my expensive Nikon, that I bought 10 years ago.
Mr Van, Are you in a secluded area? Do you have neighbors close by?
Quote from: Acebird on September 10, 2018, 04:20:45 PM
Van, did you see this bear? Bears usually bust up the hive into pieces. Straps are child's play for a bear.
You are right. It could have been teenagers.
Ace, I believe the bear in your part of the country can go upwards of 600 pounds. Is this correct??? In the Ozarks the bear are half that size. I did not see the bear. He was strong enough to tip over 3 double deep, 10 frame Lang hives at once. The bear, toppled the whole stand over with the weight of three hives. I did see paw smears on the hives, ground to hard to leave tracks.
The hives were heavy enough that it took 2 men to lift one hive while we had insane honey bees stinging the pants off me. OK, I took a total of 6 stings, not bad actually. I was wearing a jacket only, not a full bee proof suit.
SIX STINGS??
What do you call that? If I don't get that many in a normal bee day, I pick a few up and stick them to me. It's a useless day in the bee yard if I don't get 8 or 10. :rolleyes: :cheesy: :cheesy:
PS. No reloading equip. needed. Just open a 3 inch shell, remove lead, add rock salt, and fold the cardboard back down.
Works on teenagers, too. :angry: :grin:
Quote from: blackforest beekeeper on September 10, 2018, 02:44:49 AM
At least You may help Yourself!
In Germany first one may not own a gun. Second if You own a gun (legally, quite a process) and shoot a bear (which are just arriving again in Germany) or a wolf (we got those again...) you get a sentence worse than if You shot a kid....
I know, God Bless you! What if the bear was coming after you while you were in your bee yard? I guess you would have to try to fight it off with a stick just to save your life !!! I want to leave you with a quote from a famous person from the past "All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." ---Mao Tse Tung. That's is exactly what the hide away communist are trying to do to us free born American Citizens here in My Country; Render us defenseless! Be careful over there in Germany, kind sir. Sincerely, Phillip
Quote from: iddee on September 10, 2018, 09:14:59 PM
Works on teenagers, too. :angry: :grin:
Ha, ha, ha. Nothing works on teenagers anymore because you can't slap them before they get there. Rock salt only works on the ones you shot. There is always new ones coming up that haven't learned yet.
Van, you are correct. Our bears are big. However the way you have made your stand it wouldn't take much to push the hives over. No match for a double dare.
Teenagers probably filmed it and it is on facebook somewhere
6 hives were knocked over, some drag down hill, some of the hives were strapped to the stand so the bear knocked the whole thing over, stand and hive.
Teenagers would bee gone after they knocked the first stand down. They sure are not going to drag a hive down the hill with several thousand bees all over them.
Jim
Quote from: Ben Framed on September 11, 2018, 07:40:02 AM
Quote from: blackforest beekeeper on September 10, 2018, 02:44:49 AM
At least You may help Yourself!
In Germany first one may not own a gun. Second if You own a gun (legally, quite a process) and shoot a bear (which are just arriving again in Germany) or a wolf (we got those again...) you get a sentence worse than if You shot a kid....
I know, God Bless you! What if the bear was coming after you while you were in your bee yard? I guess you would have to try to fight it off with a stick just to save your life !!! I want to leave you with a quote from a famous person from the past "All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." ---Mao Tse Tung. That's is exactly what the hide away communist are trying to do to us free born American Citizens here in My Country; Render us defenseless! Be careful over there in Germany, kind sir. Sincerely, Phillip Hall
Of course, You are right.
On the other hand, I guess guns will always be more or less legal and easy to have in the US because the US of A is securing its influence in the world with the aid of weaponry. So citizens are kept close to weapons on an emotional and material level. In Germany a "pacifistic" mentality is - I guess - the majority. There just have been to many wars in Europe, I guess.
Other: In Switzerland, just about every male person who has served his two years of military has gun and everything at home, to be ready. Just a few clicks away from us.
Germany is over-ruled. it`s for crying out loud.
A hunter may have guns. To become a hunter, one has to go to school and take a few exams, which are not trivial at all.
Then, when a hunter has guns, he may only carry them or transport them ON HIS WAY TO HUNTING. nowhere else. If he stops for groceries on the way and has his gun in the car - that was it. Never will have a gun again. A friend wanting to go hunting. Forgot something in the house, went back into the house. The gun still in his car. A bad neighbour took a photo and gave it to the police. he was in the house maybe five minutes... gladly it all was all right in the end, the lady withdrew her charges for whatever reasons. but that`s about how it goes around here.
There was a dead wolf in a lake lately. Shot. They investigated just as hard as it if had been a dead kid. Really true.
If a wolf came at You: You are supposed to yell loud and wave and stuff like that....
It I (capitals) had a gun and a wolf showed his nose...
...I guess :wink:I would have to wave it at the wolf!!!
Quote from: iddee on September 10, 2018, 09:14:59 PM
PS. No reloading equip. needed. Just open a 3 inch shell, remove lead, add rock salt, and fold the cardboard back down.
Works on teenagers, too. :angry: :grin:
That's the way to load rock salt if ya don't have a shell press. But idee, when was the last time you bought shells? They haven't made paper shells in many a year! They're all plastic now, and a little tougher to fold closed. Just need a little more effort, but it can be done.
Hello Mr Van, all good last night?
Mr. Ben: The bear has not returned. I am guessing the reason is since the hives were strapped, all the bear got was stingers in his hose, no food. I would not be surprised if the bear returned, but so far, so good.
Iddee, ya I know, I am whining about 6 stings..... usual is no stings. Six stings is what I normally receive in a year.
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on September 11, 2018, 01:12:43 PM
Mr. Ben: The bear has not returned. I am guessing the reason is since the hives were strapped, all the bear got was stingers in his hose, no food.
Good for his nose and good for you, that he has not returned. Have you opened the hives since the event?
I have to put on protection to even walk by the hives that were rolled. Those bees are still shaken up.
I did open two breeder quality hives this morning that were NOT rolled by the bear and those bees were very gentle. I have 20 hives scattered over 1/2 acre and the bear only rolled less than half.
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on September 11, 2018, 04:20:33 PM
I have to put on protection to even walk by the hives that were rolled. Those bees are still shaken up.
I did open two breeder quality hives this morning that were NOT rolled by the bear and those bees were very gentle. I have 20 hives scattered over 1/2 acre and the bear only rolled less than half.
Did you get a chance to read my reply on Reply #8 ? If not you may want to check out just how critical my situation was with my one hive that was knocked over. The one, was bad enough. Since it was laying on its side fully intact, I thought all was well; (until I opened it) Man what a mess. I certinally hope you don't have the same experience that I did. To bad I don't live closer, I would be happy to help you. Best to you.
Sincerely, Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"
Mr. Ben, I have not opened the rolled hives. The bees wax is on plastacell, but I realize a frame of honey is heavy. The hives that were rolled were support hives so not very much worry. Only one breeder quality hive was rolled, I will check that hive shortly and let ya know.
Blessings
I just checked the breeder quality hive, eggs and larva present. I did see the queen. a beautiful Cordovan. All is well with this hive, the first pictured hive of the nuc.
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on September 12, 2018, 11:55:53 AM
I just checked the breeder quality hive, eggs and larva present. I did see the queen. a beautiful Cordovan. All is well with this hive, the first pictured hive of the nuc.
Glad to hear that good news Mr Van!! A blessing !!
Glad that this bear attack is over for now. But I have a feeling that it will be back once hungry. At 10pm I would stay in and
browse the net for a reliable electric fence kit. Going out there at night time is too dangerous. Maybe Van can put the hives in
a bear proof shed and then take them out again in the Spring. The bears will be hungry alright by then.
This will give him some time to think about what is the next step to take. Maybe to put the breeder queen hive inside the electric fence area.
Beepro{Maybe to put the breeder queen hive inside the electric fence area.}.
Funny you should mention about my breeder queen. Locally my breeder queen is some what famous. My bee buddies suggested I take the breeder queen inside my house. Har har har
Beepro you would adore this queen, she is Cordovan, just a laying machine, my gentlest bee hive. She generates 50% Cordovan queens/workers.
Got to hand it to my neighbors, they were at my house in a flash to help with the clean up.
Beemaster Members: I appreciate all who Text, Beemaster has some really good folks on this site. I do make small donations to Beemaster. Mr. Jim, sawdust, you are doing an awesome job on this site.
Blessings to the members of Beemaster.
>PS. No reloading equip. needed. Just open a 3 inch shell, remove lead, add rock salt, and fold the cardboard back down.
Rolled up leather shoe laces work better and cause less harm...
The rock salt thing is a myth. It just comes out as dust and does nothing. Except maybe to make your bore very susceptible to rust.
It's easy to see Oblio has never been caught stealing watermelons in the south. Don't tell me it's a myth. I've been there, on the receiving end.
Quote from: iddee on September 13, 2018, 09:32:38 PM
It's easy to see Oblio has never been caught stealing watermelons in the south. Don't tell me it's a myth. I've been there, on the receiving end.
Ah haa haa haa Idee!! I bet it wasn't funny that day though!! Maybe oblio 13 would like to have a friend assist him in making a video with his wife shooting him in the rear with Rock salt just to prove his point and post the video here!! Ahh haa haa, just kidding ooblio13. 😊😁. This Made my day !!
Thanks Phillip
A bit off subject so I will be short, when I was a kid, a neighbor had 1/2 acre of corn stolen one night. The thieves were BAREFOOT. Most likely they did not own a pair of shoes. BTW, I don?t think an ear of corn was left. This was in Lufkin, Texas {east Texas}. No fear of snakes in the dark, these were harden country boys thieves.
ID, did the salt leave any permanent marks, sorry for your harsh treatment.
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on September 13, 2018, 10:56:55 PM
A bit off subject so I will be short, when I was a kid, a neighbor had 1/2 acre of corn stolen one night. The thieves were BAREFOOT. Most likely they did not own a pair of shoes. BTW, I don?t think an ear of corn was left. This was in Lufkin, Texas {east Texas}. No fear of snakes in the dark, these were harden country boys thieves.
ID, did the salt leave any permanent marks, sorry for your harsh treatment.
Mr Van, I noticed you said "a neighbors" hum, did you get shot with Rock salt over the corn field heist?? Ah haa haa haa j/k 😊😁. Phillip
No scars, Van. Most southern farmers planted a watermelon patch away from the house just for the ""game"". It was something to do on a Saturday night for the teenagers. :cool: :shocked: :grin:
Seems I remember my neighbor mentioning to my dad about kids footprints in his watermelon patch when I was a youngin. Glad there wasn't any rock salt involved :wink: :cool:
Ben Framed{Mr Van, I noticed you said "a neighbors" hum, did you get shot with Rock salt over the corn field heist?? Ah haa haa haa j/k 😊😁. Phillip}
Mr. Ben: Just let me inform you Sir; I come from a long line of horse thieves, cattle rustlers, and moonshiners. Yep, rit proud, as da say in dat dar east Texas of da kin folk. Just hoping for a laugh.
Blessings
Yikes! I haven?t been reading on the forum much because of school. There have been sightings of bears where I live but they?re really rare. It makes me want to strap down my hive though!
Lizzie
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on September 16, 2018, 06:53:18 PM
Ben Framed{Mr Van, I noticed you said "a neighbors" hum, did you get shot with Rock salt over the corn field heist?? Ah haa haa haa j/k 😊😁. Phillip}
Mr. Ben: Just let me inform you Sir; I come from a long line of horse thieves, cattle rustlers, and moonshiners. Yep, rit proud, as da say in dat dar east Texas of da kin folk. Just hoping for a laugh.
Blessings
Ah haa haa haa, now I know why you complemented my "Ben Framed" name when I first started posting here !! 😊😁lol
Mr. Ben, I enjoy your humor and I still adore your name {Ben Framed}. Truthfully, my Grandpa was Sheriff and later a judge in East Texas.
Blessings
Van, I got one Cordovan breeder this season that put out 98% Cordovan worker bees. And another breeder from
a different Cordovan line with unknown worker. That is because I got it kinda late in the season before I can do a thorough
evaluation. Maybe next season something will show up.
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on September 18, 2018, 09:38:13 PM
Mr. Ben, I enjoy your humor and I still adore your name {Ben Framed}. Truthfully, my Grandpa was Sheriff and later a judge in East Texas.
Blessings
Thanks Mr Van. Laughter is good for the soul so I've been told and I tend to believe it may be true! My grandad was a cattle man and did business in west Texas. He has been gone for over 20 years now. There was a fellow in Texas who was an excellent fictional historical arthur by the name of Elmer kelton who won many awards and was recognized by the state of Texas for his great work, Elmer passed away just a few short years ago. He grew up on ranches also, and wrote of his many experiences of the life as he was growing up and from what the old timers told him. One of Elmers books, was relating to the great draught in the fifties. One of his charters in some of his books was CC Tarpley. My grandad worked with AT Tarpley here is Ms. Which owned Glen Medow Ranch here. My grandads crew moved cattle from west Texas during the great drought to save the better breeder cattle. I have often wondered if their was some conection. I guess I will never know. It was a wonderful time for me growing up and spending time on the ranches with my grandad. He was the real deal. Blessings to you as well... Sincerely, "Ben Framed"
Update, Saturday, October 20, 2018. The bear make have cost me two hives.
One queen, breeder quality has vanished in a hive that the bear rolled. I laid eyes on the queen 3 days after the bear visit. The Cordovan queen appeared healthy at that time. This week, I looked for the queen, for 2 days, in an easy to inspect nuc but today no sigh of her, nor eggs nor larva. She is gone.
Ok, more bad news, I checked another bear rolled hive, the queen is OK, however the hive has been robbed out and there are very few bees.
So I did a newspaper combine of the two mentioned weak hives. I could combine with one my 15 strong hives but I would rather let nature decide if the two weak hives are worthy. Culling of weak hives promotes healthy surviving stock. I did provide fondant and some frames of honey. To bad I lost a breeder quality queen. In case you are wondering, yes, I did see signs of varroa in both weak hives.
Blessings
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on October 20, 2018, 02:46:06 PM
Update, Saturday, October 20, 2018.
In case you are wondering, yes, I did see signs of varroa in both weak hives.
Blessings
Mr. Van, I just read a recent post where you now have a provap, If you don't mind me asking , what is your program schedule? Thank; Phillip
Mr. Ben, Good Morning. To answer your question about my schedule let me say I have treated 4 times to October with OAV provap 110. I will treat one more time in Dec or Jan totaling 5 treatments for the year 2018. My treatments begin in June after honey harvest, and I treat randomly as my arthritis permits.
My treatment timing should be weekly intervals and should not be random. The main mite kill will be when broodless this winter. During the summer, I just try to keep the mite population low until the broodless winter treatment. All my hives have removable bottom trays which give me some indication of mite kill/drop. Notice I said {some indication} NOT [accurate count], there is a big difference.
I do have treatment free hives: started with 5, last spring. Down to 3 this Fall.
Blessings
Thanks Mr Van, sounds like you are on top of it!! The reason that I ask is, I have noticed that some of the professional bee keepers which also use the oxalic acid vaporizers and say they are having almost complete mite control. Such as Ian (a canidian beekeepers blog) and don the fat beeman. Some of us hobbiest using the OV seem to not be having the same good results. I am wondering why.. ?? There has been some discussion on our forum about when and how to treat recently on a topic by beeboy01 which goes into the problems of mites. Mr Claude, TheHoneyPump has published a grand artical recently here which is very informative concerning the varoa mite .. As always, thank you Mr. Van for all of your input. Sincerely Phillip
Commenting on the original subject of the post:
When I had my operation going in upstate NY, I had a double line of wire for my electric fence. Outside row was 14 gauge aluminum wire on metal T posts. Inside line was heavy duty braided wire on fiberglass posts. Bears were in my area, and I never had an intrusion in the 10 years of operation there.
Side note: Bear broke in through my shed window where I had comb stored. Couldn't fit through but made a mess just reaching inside. Two hours later I had a solar fence put up. I even had a cutout honey feeding station next to the shed, behind the wires - 24/7. Bear never attempted to get at it - all the years I had it there.
My handyman told me a story of a bear he encountered, peering into my bee yard, laying down with his head in his hands.
It's curious to me - and very disappointing - hearing the suggestions of those here who advocate killing bears. Not to preach, but we all caretakers of living beings who have their niche in nature and we put our sweat and blood into preserving it. Certainly, every creature has its niche and purpose in the environment. Is it not our responsibility to respect that and do everything we can to preserve it too?
Yes, it takes some time and sweat to put up a fence, but so does beekeeping. I also maintain that anyone who puts hives in the woods WITHOUT a fence is betting on a losing game. I'd go so far as to say it's foolish to do so.
Would a 22 deter a bear without killing the bear.
Mr. Ace, good evening Buddy. I am sure a 22 rim fire bullet would cause harm to a bear. The bullet would penetrate the skin and at the very least cause infection. Probably not kill a bear in the short run, but long term would not be pleasant, although the wound might heal, it would be quite an ordeal for a bear.
I realize bear have incredible tough skin but a 22 rim fire {long rifle}LR sure can penetrate oak wood. A short 22 rim fire at 300 yards, well maybe not penetrate a bear hide. Most folks do not use 22 short.
My first deer kill was one shot with a 22 rim fire long rifle in a Winchester model 62, over 50 years ago.
Blessings
I once saw a fellow kill a bear with a 22 LR. The bear chased him a bit when he realized he had a gun and he couldn't beat a bear in a foot race. He shot about a dozen times to bring him down. That was many long years ago. I would not want to face one with a 22.
Quote from: herbhome on October 28, 2018, 10:30:17 PM
I once saw a fellow kill a bear with a 22 LR. The bear chased him a bit when he realized he had a gun and he couldn't beat a bear in a foot race. He shot about a dozen times to bring him down. That was many long years ago. I would not want to face one with a 22.
herbhome, did you by any-chance leave off the word (again) after your last sentence. and the number 22. hee hee, just kidding. :grin:
@ 2sox
I think I said at least two or three times that I was kidding with you and was all in good fun. No harm meant. However, I was pointing out to you, to point your finger at anyone who might have neglected to erect an electric fence when in bear country, made a foolish decision. Is it possible that not putting up the fence was an oversight? Could it be that Mr Van never thought about the problem that could and would be caused himself , or anyone one else which might have made the same mistake? Even Jim said once that he had bear trouble and had to go back and erect an electric fence. Michael Palmer also, and on and on. This caused them all much grief, suffering, sorrow and financial loss. Such as in Mr Vans case. Couldn't the harsh statement foolish also be used just as well for a person in bear country to place comb in an unprotected storage area With Windows knowing that there were bears in the area? No one on this forum attacked you and said it was a foolish decision that you made? Or foolish to do so? Please don't misunderstand me Mr 2SOX. I am happy that you post here and I have learned much from your post and will continue to eagerly look forward to learning from you. You stated that my words can detour folks from posting here. That is not and was not my intention including you, But To simply point out to you, calling someone's neglegent mistake foolish; can be a real determent to posting, especially new young people? Do you not agree? Who wants to be honest, post that honest mistake and be attacked by a fellow member as making a foolish decision? I whole heartedly agree that the electric fence is the right way to go, (I have used them for years for horses cattle and such), and to neglect , or not to put up an electric fence in bear country to protect your financial investment is a bad (mistake). Not only in bear country but cattle county as well because cattle like to rub and scratch on stationary objects. I have seen my uncle loose hives to this problem also. But I would not dare, in my wildest dreams tell him , "uncle you made a foolish decision in not putting up an electric fence". As far as an electric fence not hurting, Isn't that the point of it ? To hurt the intruder, to detour the intruder and turn it away? That is what they are for . Maybe yours don't hurt you but I feel certain that there are others that will testify to the difference. So stand on your statement of foolishment if you will. Thai is uour privlege on our shared great country. If necessary I will be happy to offer my hand to you and agree to disagree.
Sincerely, Phillip
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on October 28, 2018, 08:35:18 PM
Mr. Ace, good evening Buddy. I am sure a 22 rim fire bullet would cause harm to a bear. The bullet would penetrate the skin and at the very least cause infection.
Wild animals survive infection pretty easily. Much the same way they survive the electric fence. I wasn't suggesting a kill shot I was suggesting a flesh wound that would deter the bear. I know people that use 22's to keep bears out of their garbage. Unfortunately like a fence you have to hit every bear that comes around. The advantage of the fence is that you don't have to be there but it is a lot quicker to load a gun then to build a fence so it might cover that immediate time span until you get the fence up.
Sounds like a good way to get someone killed. A wounded bear is apt to charge any human it comes in contact with, as it can't escape as quickly as a healthy one could.
And that's not even looking at the legal aspect if one was caught shooting a bear illegally.
Yeah Wally, most likely all the people that scare bears away in Upstate are dead. You don't go charging after the bear and shoot at it. You point the gun out a window or door and shoot it in the back side. It does't know where the bullet came from. The people telling me these stories must be zombies. LOL
No, Brian, they don't make the connection between their shot and the wounded bear attack 50 mile away 10 days later.
Nope, no connection at all.
Intentionally wounding an animal is so wrong in so many ways. This from a wild game hunter that strives for a quick, clean kill when I shoot. I will begin a list...
Shooting a bear with a .22LR is...
-Inhumane. causing unnecessary pain and injury which can lead to infection and illness or slow, painful death. Wild animals die from infected injuries quite often. It is a leading cause of death.
-Unnecessary. There are other more humane preventive measures to use.
-Personal safety. You can never know whether a wounded animal will run off and possibly suffer, or will turn and attack.
-Uncertainty. You can't be on guard 24-7 with your .22LR. It is only a matter of time before a critter gets in to do its damage while you are away or sleeping.
I know there are number of other reasons why shooting a bear with a .22 is a bad idea. Would anyone else care to extend my list?
Use a fence!
Quote from: Ben Framed on October 29, 2018, 03:19:03 AM
@ 2sox
I think I said at least two or three times that I was kidding with you and was all in good fun. No harm meant. However, I was pointing out to you, to point your finger at anyone who might have neglected to erect an electric fence when in bear country, made a foolish decision. Is it possible that not putting up the fence was an oversight? Could it be that Mr Van never thought about the problem that could and would be caused himself , or anyone one else which might have made the same mistake? Even Jim said once that he had bear trouble and had to go back and erect an electric fence. Michael Palmer also, and on and on. This caused them all much grief, suffering, sorrow and financial loss. Such as in Mr Vans case. Couldn't the harsh statement foolish also be used just as well for a person in bear country to place comb in an unprotected storage area With Windows knowing that there were bears in the area? No one on this forum attacked you and said it was a foolish decision that you made? Or foolish to do so? Please don't misunderstand me Mr 2SOX. I am happy that you post here and I have learned much from your post and will continue to eagerly look forward to learning from you. You stated that my words can detour folks from posting here. That is not and was not my intention including you, But To simply point out to you, calling someone's neglegent mistake foolish; can be a real determent to posting, especially new young people? Do you not agree? Who wants to be honest, post that honest mistake and be attacked by a fellow member as making a foolish decision? I whole heartedly agree that the electric fence is the right way to go, (I have used them for years for horses cattle and such), and to neglect , or not to put up an electric fence in bear country to protect your financial investment is a bad (mistake). Not only in bear country but cattle county as well because cattle like to rub and scratch on stationary objects. I have seen my uncle loose hives to this problem also. But I would not dare, in my wildest dreams tell him , "uncle you made a foolish decision in not putting up an electric fence". As far as an electric fence not hurting, Isn't that the point of it ? To hurt the intruder, to detour the intruder and turn it away? That is what they are for . Maybe yours don't hurt you but I feel certain that there are others that will testify to the difference. So stand on your statement of foolishment if you will. Thai is uour privlege on our shared great country. If necessary I will be happy to offer my hand to you and agree to disagree.
Sincerely, Phillip Hall
Thanks for you input.
Quote from: 2Sox on October 29, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
Thanks for you input.
Thank you Mr 2Sox. I want to apologize to you for initially coming through so strong. I could have communicated with you without that type of sharp sarcasm. It was wrong of me, and I should not have done it. The Word foolish is a very strong word. The definition speeks for itself.
fool?ish.
/ˈfo͞oliSH/
adjective
1. (of a person or action) lacking good sense or judgment; unwise.
2. synonyms:
3. stupid, silly, idiotic, witless, brainless, vacuous, mindless, unintelligent, thoughtless, half-baked, harebrained, imprudent, incautious, injudicious, unwise;
You have always been kind and respectful, full of valuable input and information. I don't think that you really meant any harm when you used that word. I ask you to please accept my humble apology.
Sincerely,
Phillip "Ben Framed"
Mr. Hall, have you never done anything foolish? I know I have, many times. Saying someone acted foolishly is in no way derogatory, in my mind. It's only human nature. Your post sounds severely snowflakey to me. I hope most beeks have a bit tougher hide than that.
In your definition, I see "lacking good judgement"" and "thoughtless", both being momentary at times. Those, to me, are the best descriptions.
Thank You for the apology to 2Sox, I think it was well deserved.
Quote from: Ben Framed on October 29, 2018, 12:00:38 PM
Quote from: 2Sox on October 29, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
Thanks for you input.
Thank you Mr 2Sox. I want to apologize to you for initially coming through so strong. I could have communicated with you without that type of sharp sarcasm. It was wrong of me, and I should not have done it. The Word foolish is a very strong word. The definition speeks for itself.
fool?ish.
/ˈfo͞oliSH/
adjective
1. (of a person or action) lacking good sense or judgment; unwise.
2. synonyms:
3. stupid, silly, idiotic, witless, brainless, vacuous, mindless, unintelligent, thoughtless, half-baked, harebrained, imprudent, incautious, injudicious, unwise;
You have always been kind and respectful, full of valuable input and information. I don't think that you really meant any harm when you used that word. I ask you to please accept my humble apology.
Sincerely,
Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"
I respect what you write here. It is very gracious. Of course, apology accepted. It's all mutual enhancement here.
Quote from: iddee on October 29, 2018, 12:06:14 PM
Mr. Hall, have you never done anything foolish? I know I have, many times. Saying someone acted foolishly is in no way derogatory, in my mind. It's only human nature. Your post sounds severely snowflakey to me. I hope most beeks have a bit tougher hide than that.
In your definition, I see "lacking good judgement"" and "thoughtless", both being momentary at times. Those, to me, are the best descriptions.
Thank You for the apology to 2Sox, I think it was well deserved.
Thank you iddee, You have been silent about this until now. it's to bad that you didn't post your opinion Before I posted the apology to Mr 2SOX as your statement and opinion might have carried some weight in my eyes. But to bash and scorn me (after) my apology; and may I say immediately after my heart felt apology, carries no weight with me. And may I also say my high respect that I have had for you at this time, has plumitated.for the same reason just stated. Goodness ...
Thank you Mr 2SOX.
Sincerely, Phillip
Quote from: Hops Brewster on October 29, 2018, 10:48:58 AM
Use a fence!
Sure, try to get one installed by the next night when the bear does show up. Ninety percent of all hunters wound animals and never find the carcass. Some even wound people or kill them.
""Mr. Hall, have you never done anything foolish? I know I have, many times. Saying someone acted foolishly is in no way derogatory, in my mind. It's only human nature. Your post sounds severely snowflakey to me. I hope most beeks have a bit tougher hide than that""
This was written before you posted the apology. When submitted, it said there had been a post made.
I added the rest after your post.
I would guess much of what I post is ignored, but I just post what I think. Members do with it what they want.
Quote from: iddee on October 29, 2018, 12:45:42 PM
""Mr. Hall, have you never done anything foolish? I know I have, many times. Saying someone acted foolishly is in no way derogatory, in my mind. It's only human nature. Your post sounds severely snowflakey to me. I hope most beeks have a bit tougher hide than that""
This was written before you posted the apology. When submitted, it said there had been a post made.
I added the rest after your post.
I would guess much of what I post is ignored, but I just post what I think. Members do with it what they want.
Iddee, my apology was posted to 2SOX at 12:00:38. Your attack on me was posted at 12:06:14 so, if there is any more bashing that you would like to get out of your system, you have my permission to go ahead and do it now. I won't hold it against you and I wil also ask that the administration not hold it against you either. But I will ask what is your point? Once an apology has been made and accepted by myself and 2SOX What is you purpose to attempt to continue to carry on with this subject? Apparently I ruffled your feathers for what I don't know but whatever it is you will have to have a better line of communication. Some of the bashing that you said to me, I could just as easily say back to you but I won't. I am thinging I have said to much already to 2SOX and felt bad bough about that. That bad feeling that I had led to my apology to him and he deservied that apology. But Sir, as far as I can see, without you being clear in your communication to me, I owe you nothing, on the contrary. Goodness.... Mr 2SOX was gracious to accept my apology. And If Mr 2SOX reads this I thank you again Mr 2SOX.
Well, it looks like you took it a lot harder than it was meant. Maybe my old skin is just a lot tougher than yours. I meant for it to go over lightly, but if it hit you as being hard, then go ahead and throw it back as hard as you wish. I will understand. No hard feelings on this end.
Phillip,
I think what Iddee is saying is that he started writing about the apology, stopped, as happens to me, just did twice today, came back and finished it, posted it and then saw your reply and added to it. It happens a lot.
Let?s just get back to the bears and the bees. 😊
Quote from: 2Sox on October 28, 2018, 01:39:31 PM
Commenting on the original subject of the post:
When I had my operation going in upstate NY, I had a double line of wire for my electric fence. Outside row was 14 gauge aluminum wire on metal T posts. Inside line was heavy duty braided wire on fiberglass posts. Bears were in my area, and I never had an intrusion in the 10 years of operation there.
Side note: Bear broke in through my shed window where I had comb stored. Couldn't fit through but made a mess just reaching inside. Two hours later I had a solar fence put up. I even had a cutout honey feeding station next to the shed, behind the wires - 24/7. Bear never attempted to get at it - all the years I had it there.
My handyman told me a story of a bear he encountered, peering into my bee yard, laying down with his head in his hands.
It's curious to me - and very disappointing - hearing the suggestions of those here who advocate killing bears. Not to preach, but we all caretakers of living beings who have their niche in nature and we put our sweat and blood into preserving it. Certainly, every creature has its niche and purpose in the environment. Is it not our responsibility to respect that and do everything we can to preserve it too?
Yes, it takes some time and sweat to put up a fence, but so does beekeeping. I also maintain that anyone who puts hives in the woods WITHOUT a fence is betting on a losing game. I'd go so far as to say it's foolish to do so.
Mr Sox, thanks for your post. I probably will not put up an electric fence due to neighborhood dogs that occasionally visit. Also a close neighbor has young kids that have no idea what an electric fence is. Last, I have been shocked myself so many times by an electric fence that they make me uncomfortable. If the bear persists, I can always call in fish and game to safely trap the bear or I could use motion detector alarm.
Rest assured the bear will NOT be harmed, but to me, an electric fence is not an option. Denver, my neighbors pet lab retriever is my Buddy, the friendliest pup who inspects my hives on a weekly basis. Denver does not pester the bees, but he is very courious.
Strapping my hives saved my bees, the bear never tasted honey and never came back. Looks like I will lose 2 hives, the combine I mentioned is being robbed so I will let nature decide.
Thank you Mr. Ben F.
Blessings
Quote from: iddee on October 29, 2018, 03:49:27 PM
Well, it looks like you took it a lot harder than it was meant. Maybe my old skin is just a lot tougher than yours. I meant for it to go over lightly, but if it hit you as being hard, then go ahead and throw it back as hard as you wish. I will understand. No hard feelings on this end.
I could do just that but I have been sit in the corner by the moderator for a direct attack. How is it that the same has not happened to you ?? Hum
Quote from: iddee on October 29, 2018, 03:49:27 PM
. No hard feelings on this end.
No hard feeling on this end either, I'm glad you got it out of your system Mr Thick skin.. Ah haa haa haa 😁
Quote from: Acebird on October 29, 2018, 08:34:43 AM
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on October 28, 2018, 08:35:18 PM
Mr. Ace, good evening Buddy. I am sure a 22 rim fire bullet would cause harm to a bear. The bullet would penetrate the skin and at the very least cause infection.
Wild animals survive infection pretty easily. Much the same way they survive the electric fence. I wasn't suggesting a kill shot I was suggesting a flesh wound that would deter the bear. I know people that use 22's to keep bears out of their garbage. Unfortunately like a fence you have to hit every bear that comes around. The advantage of the fence is that you don't have to be there but it is a lot quicker to load a gun then to build a fence so it might cover that immediate time span until you get the fence up.
Yes, Mr. Ace, you mentioned {wild animals survive infections}. Note: alligators, their immune system is being studied presently: for cancer research. A gator can lose a limb to a fight, then lay in sewage water and NOT get an infection while completely healing the would leaving a stub where the limb was. Amazing immune system, just incredible. A bit off subject so I won?t elaborate further.
Blessings
""Let?s just get back to the bears and the bees.""
I took that as being for both of us. That's why I didn't reply back. I'm sitting in the corner peeking out from under my dunce cap. :embarassed: :shocked:
Quote from: iddee on October 29, 2018, 06:55:13 PM
""Let?s just get back to the bears and the bees.""
Yea, me too 😊😁 Hats off to you iddee. Let's move on... The corner is one thing but the principals office is whole different subject!! .. Neither one of us want that !! Enjoy you evening...
Sincerely, Phillip
:cool: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
Bees on sub pollen:fanatics!!! I cannot figure out why my bees were going nuts over sub. pollen that I community feed. I am talking today, Octobrr 29, temp is 70F here in Arkansas. The bees were like,,,, desperate, anxious for the pollen. The pollen feeder was very crowded.
I am confused because my understanding is pollen is basically protein used for growing bees, that is to feed larvae. Maybe there is more larva, than when I last inspected, a week ago. That is my guess, you have a good idea, please text as this is how I learn.
Tomorrow I will inspect, weather is nice: then Wednesday, Oct 31, the temps take a nose dive and possible I will not inspect another hive until Feb.
Blessings
Bees will store large amounts of pollen in the fall. Be careful that they don't fill two frames close together with the queen in between in the spring. I have seen queens confined to 2 or 3 frames, with solid pollen frames next to them in the spring. She will not cross a solid pollen frame and lay in the next one, thus breaking up her brood nest.
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on October 29, 2018, 09:39:56 PM
I am confused because my understanding is pollen is basically protein used for growing bees, that is to feed larvae. Maybe there is more larva, than when I last inspected, a week ago.
The majority of bees in a hive do two things, they forage and they hoard. If there is no nectar they hoard pollen until that is no longer available. For the most part honey lasts forever while pollen degrades from the day they bring it into the hive. So in the spring they will bring in fresh pollen and take out the old.
Quote from: Acebird on October 29, 2018, 12:43:48 PM
Quote from: Hops Brewster on October 29, 2018, 10:48:58 AM
Use a fence!
Ninety percent of all hunters wound animals and never find the carcass. Some even wound people or kill them.
There is a vast difference between being unable to locate a wounded game animal and intentionally injuring an animal with inadequate firepower. The overwhelming majority of hunters go to great lengths to find what they shoot. You can't use this as an excuse to justify maiming an animal as a plan.
The list continues;
Legality- It is illegal in every jurisdiction that I have hunted to wound an animal without making an effort to locate it. It is also illegal to intentionally wound or maim an animal.
You may be able to get a permit from your game department to kill a bear that is destroying your livestock. Or,
If you want to use a firearm to scare off a bear, why don't you use a beanbag load instead of causing injury?
Quote from: Acebird on October 30, 2018, 08:27:00 AM
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on October 29, 2018, 09:39:56 PM
I am confused because my understanding is pollen is basically protein used for growing bees, that is to feed larvae. Maybe there is more larva, than when I last inspected, a week ago.
The majority of bees in a hive do two things, they forage and they hoard. If there is no nectar they hoard pollen until that is no longer available. For the most part honey lasts forever while pollen degrades from the day they bring it into the hive. So in the spring they will bring in fresh pollen and take out the old.
This is very interesting! I had always believed that if pollen sacs were on the bees, they were also bringing in nectar; that one
always went with the other. Regarding the shelf life of pollen; this explains why the old-time health food stores always kept fresh bee pollen refrigerated. I haven't noticed what they do now. Probably cryovac.
A question: I've always fed back frames of pollen - from dead outs - to splits, swarms, or to packages with no problem. (I always freeze frames or pollen or honey from dead-outs for at least 48 hours. I wrap and seal the entire medium in contractor bags for months - usually the winter - before use) Ate it right up. How does this apply to the information you offer here? Am I missing something?
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA link=topic=51668.msg459484#msg459484 date=1540839639
i]Mr Sox, thanks for your post. I probably will not put up an electric fence due to neighborhood dogs that occasionally visit. Also a close neighbor has young kids that have no idea what an electric fence is. Last, I have been shocked myself so many times by an electric fence that they make me uncomfortable. If the bear persists, I can always call in fish and game to safely trap the bear or I could use motion detector alarm.
Rest assured the bear will NOT be harmed, but to me, an electric fence is not an option. Denver, my neighbors pet lab retriever is my Buddy, the friendliest pup who inspects my hives on a weekly basis. Denver does not pester the bees, but he is very courious.
Strapping my hives saved my bees, the bear never tasted honey and never came back. Looks like I will lose 2 hives, the combine I mentioned is being robbed so I will let nature decide.
Thank you Mr. Ben F.
Blessings[/i]
This does explain a lot. I understand a little more about your decision. I completely understand your feeling about Denver. I'm a dog lover myself. (I once had a hot hive that chased my big Rottweiler, Lucas, clear across the field to the house! I felt terrible for him. I'll just say, dogs are smart. Once they encounter the fence, there won't be a second encounter.
If you continue to just strap your hives, I'd just suggest you use two straps on each hive - back to front and side to side. Extra insurance. When I transport hives, that's what I do. I've taken some sharp turns and the two strap method has prevented catastrophes when the hives turned over in my van.
Mann Lake sells galvanized metal banding straps that would stop grizzlies!
https://www.mannlakeltd.com/galvanized-banding-strap
Quote from: Hops Brewster on October 30, 2018, 10:34:12 AM
Quote from: Acebird on October 29, 2018, 12:43:48 PM
Quote from: Hops Brewster on October 29, 2018, 10:48:58 AM
Use a fence!
Ninety percent of all hunters wound animals and never find the carcass. Some even wound people or kill them.
There is a vast difference between being unable to locate a wounded game animal and intentionally injuring an animal with inadequate firepower. The overwhelming majority of hunters go to great lengths to find what they shoot. You can't use this as an excuse to justify maiming an animal as a plan.
The list continues;
Legality- It is illegal in every jurisdiction that I have hunted to wound an animal without making an effort to locate it. It is also illegal to intentionally wound or maim an animal.
You may be able to get a permit from your game department to kill a bear that is destroying your livestock. Or,
If you want to use a firearm to scare off a bear, why don't you use a beanbag load instead of causing injury?
Hops, I know a fellow who had a house dog, a pet, not a raised to be hunting dog, who would track wounded deer! This fellow found this talent by accident after shooting a deer (for food) and the animal ran into a huge thick area which would, under normal circumstances, make the mortally wounded animal almost impossible to find. How the talent of this dog was discovered. After the shot, the fellow waited the extra time and proceed to look for the deer. Tracking blood, he soon realized he would never find the deer by himself. He went back to his home which was not a far distance away and ask the aid of his kids. The kids wanted to bring their dachshund (winnie dog) along and to pacify them he agreed. To his amazement, the dog, when was at the known place of the animal at the time of the shot, let out a bark and off he went! And straight to the deer he went. The fame of this dog grew and several hunters through the years ask for the aid of this dog. From what I was told the famous Dotson never failed to find an a wounded or dead lost deer!
Quote from: Hops Brewster on October 30, 2018, 10:34:12 AM
Legality- It is illegal in every jurisdiction that I have hunted to wound an animal without making an effort to locate it.
In a lot of cases it is not illegal to protect your property or livestock. It is illegal to shoot a deer after dusk. So please explain the common practice of doing so. You can't track deer in the dark.
Ace, where, when did I mention shooting deer after dark?
I know it is generally legal to protect livestock. I am saying that intentionally wounding a bear with an inadequate caliber firearm is not on my list of acceptable methods.
Ben, I wish we could use dogs to track wounded game in my part of the country, but it's illegal in most states out here. One method we use is to sit down and wait 15 minutes for the magpies to find the wounded game for us. Works like a charm!
Brian,
Yes you can if you can locate where you hit it and follow the blood trail. A gas lantern lights up a blood trail real nice.
I once followed a Bluetick dog from 5:30 to 10:00 trying to find a 6 point.
Jim
I am really confused Ace, some folks don't like the idea of hunting. Reading your post , it seems that you might be one of theses folks? If you don't like to hunt, for any Or whatever reason that is your privlege. Some folks do enjoy the hunting experiance. That is their privlege also. There are many things that go on that I may not approve of or there again approve of. One thing is for sure our For-Fathers hunted. Hunters, through their taxes for one thing support the protection of animals, such as game laws, game limits, fish and game programs that enhance the repopulation of animals and birds that was one almost completely lost due to los of habitat. Not only with taxes it with donations to groups which donate LARGE sums of money in order to see habitat preserved and restored. Such as ducks unlimited and others. Through these programs taxes of hunters and fishermen , in my short lifetime, Deer, turkey, geese ducks and other wildlife that simply didn't exist in my area are or very common. The Hinter has contributed much to bring back and contribute to the love of wildlife. Not the cougar, the wolf, the buzzards, and on and on it goes are all making comebacks. Weather we or not we agree or disagree, the hunter has done an outstanding, and doing an outstanding job and is responsible for doing the biggest part to save our wildlife and insure there is plenty of it for the future. Shooting a bear with a 22 may not seem like a big deal to a non hunter that may not understand the magnitude of the sever injury, pain, and suffering that the animal WILL endure, weather the animal survives or not. But it is a big deal to the animal lover the hunter. If you need to protect your property with fire power, I for one certinally understand, but Please use a firearm that will humanly dispose of the animal. And if that choice is made, please use the meat for food so the bear will not have died in vain. Please put up the electric fence. No harm meant Ace not taking sides against you...
Sincerely,
Phillip
PS. I am working and did not have time to proof read please excuse any jumbled up words or misspelling. Done on my phone .
Phill, I have nothing against hunting or hunters. But I am a realist. Many hunted animals are wounded whether intentional or not. Most in my neck of the woods will not be found before they are eaten by another wild animal.
If you go back to my original post #59 the use of a 22 was worded as a question nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with protection of livestock.
QuoteI am saying that intentionally wounding a bear with an inadequate caliber firearm is not on my list of acceptable methods.
Hops, to my knowledge trapping is still legal and a leg trap will inflict a heck of a lot of pain usually for a long period of time. And then when the animal is found it is finished off and only the fur is kept.
Van, back on topic. Strapping however it is done is better than nothing but no match for bears in our woods. Good luck. I hope it works for you.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on October 31, 2018, 10:49:54 AM
I once followed a Bluetick dog from 5:30 to 10:00 trying to find a 6 point.
Jim
Oh boy Jim, not in NY that can really hurt your wallet. If you get too far in such that it is dark when you come out of the woods you better not have any ammo in the gun and don't think about dragging the dear out.
I was in a wildlife management area, had to get permission to take the dog in and no guns were allowed.
Jim
Thanks Brian. I don't hunt either. I use to but I don't have time for it anymore. Yep that is what you ask and was your original question. Anyway interesting (debate) y'all had going about this.
One thing that I didn't mention in my last post is the come back of bears here in my state. From what I have been told , some bear have swam the Mississippi River and now are gaining a foot hold around Rosedale, Mississippi. Now that is one critter that I don't look forward to making a comeback!! Hee hee
Quote from: iddee on October 29, 2018, 03:49:27 PM
Well, it looks like you took it a lot harder than it was meant. Maybe my old skin is just a lot tougher than yours. I meant for it to go over lightly, but if it hit you as being hard, then go ahead and throw it back as hard as you wish. I will understand. No hard feelings on this end.
iddee How long would these people last on 'coffee house'? soon to run out of apologies! :wink: :smile:
cider
Cider, all people are individuals. I try to treat everyone as I feel they are comfortable. All members aren't as tough as grizzlies with corns on their toes, as you and I are. :wink:
Quote from: cidersabuzzin on October 31, 2018, 07:19:54 PM
Quote from: iddee on October 29, 2018, 03:49:27 PM
Well, it looks like you took it a lot harder than it was meant. Maybe my old skin is just a lot tougher than yours. I meant for it to go over lightly, but if it hit you as being hard, then go ahead and throw it back as hard as you wish. I will understand. No hard feelings on this end.
iddee How long would these people last on 'coffee house'? soon to run out of apologies! :wink: :smile:
cider
Well since iddee directed the above statement toward me, I can only assume that you are as well. So administrator or not , rule or not I will defend myself!, Unlike any whimp that sits by and rolls over to the bredset agreement and gives up his the right to defend his country, himself or his family!! And if that type person don't like it he can kiss my mules daddy!! Ah haa haa haa 😉😀😀
Quote from: iddee on October 31, 2018, 08:51:09 PM
Cider, all people are individuals. I try to treat everyone as I feel they are comfortable. All members aren't as tough as grizzlies with corns on their toes, as you and I are. :wink:
That goes for you to Mr tough skin !! Ah haa haa haa 😉
HEY, By golly, Ben, I think you might just fit right in. Welcome to the sandpaper hide group. :cheesy:
Quote from: iddee on October 31, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
HEY, By golly, Ben, I think you might just fit right in. Welcome to the sandpaper hide group. :cheesy:
Ah haa haa haa; thanks iddee 😉
Quote from: iddee on October 31, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
HEY, By golly, Ben, I think you might just fit right in. Welcome to the sandpaper hide group. :cheesy:
I agree iddee but looking at the last couple of replies it still begs the question "are they real"? :wink:
Quote from: cidersabuzzin on November 01, 2018, 05:04:16 AM
Quote from: iddee on October 31, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
HEY, By golly, Ben, I think you might just fit right in. Welcome to the sandpaper hide group. :cheesy:
I agree iddee but looking at the last couple of replies it still begs the question "are they real"? :wink:
Jim, I really want to follow the rules, I am really trying to give the respect that is deserved. I realize Mr Cidersabuzzin wants to instigate and cut up in class, as he also knows I have been sitting on the bench and seems to be making faces at me.. ah haa haa haa.. So I must answer Mr "CidersABuzzard""this one more time hopefully with a hall pass from you . Ah haa haa haa .
Well iddee, it looks like our cousin from across the water, (The Instigator), doesn't have the good kinesthesia, (sense), to know when he has been bombed and fumigated! 😉 Ah haa haa haa
PS I really would like to play more but I have work to do !! Hee hee 😉
Well put Phillip.
Jim
I was looking at a video on youtube and I noticed this video!
Titled:
Grizzly bear takes shotgun blast at point-blank range and keeps charging
woo wee!!
Quote from: Acebird on October 31, 2018, 01:56:32 PM
Phill, I have nothing against hunting or hunters. But I am a realist. Many hunted animals are wounded whether intentional or not. Most in my neck of the woods will not be found before they are eaten by another wild animal.
If you go back to my original post #59 the use of a 22 was worded as a question nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with protection of livestock.
QuoteI am saying that intentionally wounding a bear with an inadequate caliber firearm is not on my list of acceptable methods.
Hops, to my knowledge trapping is still legal and a leg trap will inflict a heck of a lot of pain usually for a long period of time. And then when the animal is found it is finished off and only the fur is kept.
Van, back on topic. Strapping however it is done is better than nothing but no match for bears in our woods. Good luck. I hope it works for you.
The intent of a leg trap is to capture and hold the target fur critter until killed by the trapper. Traps are laid one day, critter gets trapped at night, trapper picks up next day. The intent is to capture, not to wound and release to get sick and die. Intentionally wounding an animal is an abuse of the animal, abuse of natural resources and an abuse of the right to keep and bear arms. It is immoral.
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 04, 2018, 01:05:48 AM
I was looking at a video on youtube and I noticed this video!
Titled:
Grizzly bear takes shotgun blast at point-blank range and keeps charging
woo wee!!
Bet someone had to get changed. That was amazing. Never aim to injure a charging animal.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on November 05, 2018, 10:56:08 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 04, 2018, 01:05:48 AM
I was looking at a video on youtube and I noticed this video!
Titled:
Grizzly bear takes shotgun blast at point-blank range and keeps charging
woo wee!!
Bet someone had to get changed. That was amazing. Never aim to injure a charging animal.
Jim
Jim, I almost had to get changed just watching it !! 😁
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 05, 2018, 11:03:15 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on November 05, 2018, 10:56:08 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 04, 2018, 01:05:48 AM
I was looking at a video on youtube and I noticed this video!
Titled:
Grizzly bear takes shotgun blast at point-blank range and keeps charging
woo wee!!
Bet someone had to get changed. That was amazing. Never aim to injure a charging animal.
Jim
Jim, I almost had to get changed just watching it !! 😁
I was puckering up. 😊
First line of defense in bear country is a proper electric fence.
Secondary precautions could be to strap hives down securely so bears that might come through the fence have trouble getting to the brood comb. (That is what they are after)
You could add security lights which come on when a large animal moves near the apiary.
Finally, if you have a problem bear who will bull their way through other precautions...a firearm.
Such a bear is dangerous.
You might fire in the ground one time to scare such a bear off.
If that doesn't work, you should use lethal force. Never ever, ever, ever, shoot to wound a bear!!!!!
If you wound a bear you are being inhumane to the bear.
In addition that bear is now a threat to you and anyone else it comes in contact with. It could charge a neighbor down the road the next day.
Before such an encounter, talk with your local game warden. Discuss the fact that you have taken reasonable precautions to prevent this bear from destroying your private property and killing your livestock. (Your colonies of bees are considered livestock) I know 2 beekeepers in my area who were told that if they have to shoot and kill a bear, to leave the bear where it lies and call the warden. Our local authorities understand the issue.
If you must shoot a bear, what should you use? Do not use buckshot. Do not use Walmart special slugs. These rounds are not designed to put a bear down. If you have a highpower rifle, use it with a heavy grain round. If you must use a 12 gauge shotgun, order Brennekke black magic slugs. They are built to punch through the thick bone of a bear and drop them quickly. The skin of a bear isn't the problem. It's the hard bone covered in thick fat. Practice shooting many times so that you are accurate.
Just a thought. I have used A radio talk show playing all night, for deer this works about 3-4 weeks. also a solar motion light. this is a temporary fix. I got a metronome for my heart yesterday (pace maker) typing one handed mostly. Ill have time to read keep info coming , thanks yall
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on November 05, 2018, 10:56:08 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 04, 2018, 01:05:48 AM
I was looking at a video on youtube and I noticed this video!
Titled:
Grizzly bear takes shotgun blast at point-blank range and keeps charging
woo wee!!
Bet someone had to get changed. That was amazing. Never aim to injure a charging animal.
Jim
I was reminded of this video when this topic was brought to my memory a few days ago. At the time of that quoted video title above, I had been posting here but only a few months and was still learning my way 'around', I had not yet learned how to post videos here.
I have taken the liberty to post a copy of that video now. Notice the guy was shuffling backward and lost his shoe! Almost falling! The bear was so mad it grabbed the guys shoe for a split second, which might have given him just enough time to make it to safety???
To play this video simply touch the bottom >Watch on YouTube< on the designated screen below, and it should play for you..
This following video is CC for the hearing impaired. https://youtu.be/WdyjUxOaBSc
I have dealt with bears 3 times and they always came back. You may stop them with a fence but not my experience. If the fence isnt up before the first attack they will go through it like cellophane. Pungi sticks end it every time.I will say no more.