Our nighttime temps are really fluctuating here right now, but high 20's is about as cold as it gets. Tonight and tomorrow however it's going to be in the teens and low 20's overnight. My hive setup right now is 2 mediums, a slatted rack, and a moisture quilt. Do I need to provide them with some extra insulation for tonight and tomorrow? Or since it's just really these 2 days, will they be alright?
That sounds like a good setup for your climate. Your bees will not freeze if you have most of those frames covered.
Jim
Thanks for the quick response, Jim. I've been trying to get into the hive to check on the population and finalize my winterizing, but with Thanksgiving and the weather I've been unable to. Last time I was in there the bottom box was full of bees. On the warmer days I have seen activity in and out of the hive (some of them still carrying pollen, which I have no idea where they are getting), so I'm pretty sure the population is still fine. There was quite a bit of activity up there one day last week, where I'm pretty sure there were bees orienting, so that seemed like a good sign to me as well.
With your temperatures the way they are, I would not open them now. They have the hive they way they want it and you can only do harm. On top of that if you kill the queen, they cannot replace her.
Jim
Lift the back of the hive one inch. If you can do it with 3 fingers, they need fed. If you can't lift it at all, they are fine. The setup is good for the weather if they have food.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on November 27, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
With your temperatures the way they are, I would not open them now. They have the hive they way they want it and you can only do harm. On top of that if you kill the queen, they cannot replace her.
Jim
I certainly wouldn't open them on one of these super cold days, but I am waiting on a warm day to do so. 50's and sunny was my target temperature. I left my beetle traps in and was hoping to remove them, and also to add a top entrance so the girls can enter and exit more easily in the cold. Would you still advise against it if it's warmer out?
Quote from: iddee on November 27, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
Lift the back of the hive one inch. If you can do it with 3 fingers, they need fed. If you can't lift it at all, they are fine. The setup is good for the weather if they have food.
Thanks for the advice, iddee. They had 10 frames of honey going into the winter, so I'm pretty sure they are fine for now, but that's a great tip to know when I need to check if they're hungry.
We typically get two weeks of -10 F and often get two weeks of -20 F and occasionally get two weeks of -30 F... 20 F is nice weather...
In a seriously cold climate breaking the propolise between boxes is a bad thing. It can't be repaired. In a warm climate that has cold spells it is not that bad but any intervention in the winter season is non productive.
Quote from: Michael Bush on November 27, 2018, 03:37:51 PM
We typically get two weeks of -10 F and often get two weeks of -20 F and occasionally get two weeks of -30 F... 20 F is nice weather...
It's weird how far north Nebraska is. I tend to think of it as farther south than it is, but I guess you are at the same latitude as cold states like Pennsylvania and Indiana.
Quote from: The15thMember on November 27, 2018, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on November 27, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
With your temperatures the way they are, I would not open them now. They have the hive they way they want it and you can only do harm. On top of that if you kill the queen, they cannot replace her.
Jim
I certainly wouldn't open them on one of these super cold days, but I am waiting on a warm day to do so. 50's and sunny was my target temperature. I left my beetle traps in and was hoping to remove them, and also to add a top entrance so the girls can enter and exit more easily in the cold. Would you still advise against it if it's warmer out?
Quote from: iddee on November 27, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
Lift the back of the hive one inch. If you can do it with 3 fingers, they need fed. If you can't lift it at all, they are fine. The setup is good for the weather if they have food.
Thanks for the advice, iddee. They had 10 frames of honey going into the winter, so I'm pretty sure they are fine for now, but that's a great tip to know when I need to check if they're hungry.
Member,
The only time that I go into the hives during winter is when I?m pretty sure the hive is dead. Then I take it apart and move the supers inside to protect them.
Jim
Jim {Member,
The only time that I go into the hives during winter is when I?m pretty sure the hive is dead. Then I take it apart and move the supers inside to protect them.
Jim}
I realize that some parts of the world, even here in North America there are drastic differences in winter temperatures. Michael's home sounds pretty rough to me, and there is TheHoneyPump up in Canada which sounds like a harsh winter also. Look and Michael Palmers operation, goodness gracious! Here in North Mississippi we do have some, what we consider, cold spells with and occasional, O now and then and sometimes sub zero though rare. One of my uncles lives more south in Mississippi (Hattiesburg) Where when cold here, looks like picnic weather there! How do you guys and gals in these cold areas determine when a hive is dead without going through a lot of trouble? I have looked into infrared imaging cameras. I do have a inferred thermometer that is very accurate and I have used in a cutout situation to locate the general area where the cluster of bees were in a wall, and may I add. It did the trick! Though only showing a few degrees warmer through the wall it was a big help. Wouldn't this also help you folks during winter to detect the heat of the hive? No higher than outside temp. = dead hive?
Phillip,
Our temperatures are up and down all winter long. This gives the bees a chance to have potty breaks and (regretfully) search for food (which usually just causes losses or robbing). I also will put my ear to the side of the hive and listen for life. When I do not see activity on one hive when the rest are active, I start watching it closer. I also routinely check the weight of the hives to see if they are running out of food.
Jim
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 27, 2018, 10:28:26 PM
Jim {Member,
The only time that I go into the hives during winter is when I?m pretty sure the hive is dead. Then I take it apart and move the supers inside to protect them.
Jim}
I realize that some parts of the world, even here in North America there are drastic differences in winter temperatures. Michael's home sounds pretty rough to me, and there is TheHoneyPump up in Canada which sounds like a harsh winter also. Look and Michael Palmers operation, goodness gracious! Here in North Mississippi we do have some, what we consider, cold spells with and occasional, O now and then and sometimes sub zero though rare. One of my uncles lives more south in Mississippi (Hattiesburg) Where when cold here, looks like picnic weather there! How do you guys and gals in these cold areas determine when a hive is dead without going through a lot of trouble? I have looked into infrared imaging cameras. I do have a inferred thermometer that is very accurate and I have used in a cutout situation to locate the general area where the cluster of bees were in a wall, and may I add. It did the trick! Though only showing a few degrees warmer through the wall it was a big help. Wouldn't this also help you folks during winter to detect the heat of the hive? No higher than outside temp. = dead hive?
I was thinking about getting an infrared camera for Christmas, but the one I had been looking at went up in price, so I decided against it. It was too much money for a nice-to-have sort of thing.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on November 27, 2018, 10:42:57 PM
Phillip,
Our temperatures are up and down all winter long. This gives the bees a chance to have potty breaks and (regretfully) search for food (which usually just causes losses or robbing). I also will put my ear to the side of the hive and listen for life. When I do not see activity on one hive when the rest are active, I start watching it closer. I also routinely check the weight of the hives to see if they are running out of food.
Jim
One thing I have started doing along the lines of what Jim said about listening is I use a stethoscope to listen into the hive. I'd heard of other people doing that and I happen to have a stethoscope, so I've been listening to the hive every couple of days so I can get a gauge on what sounds normal so I'll know if something sounds different. I've been trying to see if I can triangulate their position in the hive based on where the sound is the loudest, but so far I'm not that good at it.
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 27, 2018, 10:28:26 PM
How do you guys and gals in these cold areas determine when a hive is dead without going through a lot of trouble?
Snow does not melt away from the entrance or produce vapor in the top vent. Having more then one active hive will give you a reference. If you put a butt thermometer in the vent you would see a big difference between the ambient temperature.
>It's weird how far north Nebraska is. I tend to think of it as farther south than it is, but I guess you are at the same latitude as cold states like Pennsylvania and Indiana.
But we get as cold as Vermont. That arctic vortex coming down from Canada and the wind coming down off of the Rockies can get very cold.
@ The15thMember
"One thing I have started doing along the lines of what Jim said about listening is I use a stethoscope to listen into the hive. I'd heard of other people doing that and I happen to have a stethoscope, so I've been listening to the hive every couple of days so I can get a gauge on what sounds normal so I'll know if something sounds different. I've been trying to see if I can triangulate their position in the hive based on where the sound is the loudest, but so far I'm not that good at it."
The15thMember I like your idea of using a stethoscope. This may be common knodlege to some but a new idea to me. Thank you for sharing the idea. Also, I agree about the price of infrared imaging devices, can get really pricey. Flir seems to make a good one that attaches to your phone. So does seek. I am thinking seek would pobanly do fine for what my needs would be, and it is reasonably priced. If you might be interested in the infrared thermal thermometer, they can be had for little cost. Believe it or not I found mine at Harbor Freight for $19.99. As I said earlier, very accurate.
Thanks Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"
I use my FLIR.[/attachment]
That is really nice. How much is the attachment?
Jim
The Flir is the one I was looking at. Over the summer it was $170 at Amazon, but they came out with an updated one just recently and it's gone up to $200. Flir was the cheapest one I could find. I've never heard of Seek, I'll have to look into that one maybe.
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 28, 2018, 11:07:24 AM
The15thMember I like your idea of using a stethoscope. This may be common knodlege to some but a new idea to me. Thank you for sharing the idea. Also, I agree about the price of infrared imaging devices, can get really pricey. Flir seems to make a good one that attaches to your phone. So does seek. I am thinking seek would pobanly do fine for what my needs would be, and it is reasonably priced. If you might be interested in the infrared thermal thermometer, they can be had for little cost. Believe it or not I found mine at Harbor Freight for $19.99. As I said earlier, very accurate.
Thanks Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"
I keep hearing people saying how they find such cheap stuff at Harbor Freight, I really need to look into them. One of their stores is pretty close to me, I'll have to pop in there some time when I'm out that way and take a look around.
The FLIR Pro was $360 on eBay this past summer.
Thanks. A little rich for my wallet.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on November 28, 2018, 06:20:06 PM
Thanks. A little rich for my wallet.
Jim
Jim you might want to google seek. I am thinking their basic phone compatible version is , or was around $189.00, that was when I was looking into them a while ago.
I never looked any further when I learned to do splits. I did enough cut outs to get a good start. If I was doing cutouts regulary, I would "have" to have one simply for the luxury of it...
Phillip
Quote from: Acebird on November 28, 2018, 07:31:00 AM
Quote from: Ben Framed on November 27, 2018, 10:28:26 PM
How do you guys and gals in these cold areas determine when a hive is dead without going through a lot of trouble?
Snow does not melt away from the entrance or produce vapor in the top vent. Having more then one active hive will give you a reference. If you put a butt thermometer in the vent you would see a big difference between the ambient temperature.
A thermometer at the vent should work good Ace. I really think you would like the inferred thermometer. Instant results.
Maybe the ones from HD would work for around 20 bucks. The colder the ambient is the more likely it will work. A Thermometer or prob inside the top of the hive will always work.
Quote from: Acebird on November 29, 2018, 08:59:02 AM
Maybe the ones from HD would work for around 20 bucks. The colder the ambient is the more likely it will work. A Thermometer or prob inside the top of the hive will always work.
Ace, how are you liking your new home in Florida? All settled in?
Just received my new Harbor Freight "Merry Christmas Sale" catalog. :wink: Ames infrared laser thermometer for $17.99. Will that do the job of checking hive temp for cluster position?
Quote from: jimineycricket on November 30, 2018, 11:07:00 PM
Just received my new Harbor Freight "Merry Christmas Sale" catalog. :wink: Ames infrared laser thermometer for $17.99. Will that do the job of checking hive temp for cluster position?
Prehaps if you shot the laser beam straight through the vent hole into the cluster it might? What I am sure it will do, for example; if you are wanting to know if your hive is living, you can simply shoot the laser beam at the opening or maybe even the outside wall of the hive itself, and you should receive a temperature that is (higher) than the outside temperature verses the ground , a tree, for example. As I stated earlier, it was very helpful in locating the main part of the cut out hives through the wall. It was a few degrees higher on the wall where the cluster was located, but did not give me the true tempature of the cluster itself, being the laser beam was shot on the outside of the wall. As far as a true hive tempature, I would think, could only be obtained, with a thermometer placed behind the wall within the cluster. Or in your case within the hive. I would think that Ace's method will probably give you the most accurate inside temperature. But again, If you want to know if your hive is living, it should be a very handy tool. Simply walk by, shoot the laser beam and read the tempature. If higher than other outside objects, your hive is living. If tempature is the same, I would think dead hive.
Thanks Phillip
I have a question, does anyone know what the inside hive cluster tempature is generally maintained by the bees during winter months. Say Mid-America?
Thanks Phillip
Phillip,
The bees will keep the inside of cluster at between 93 to 95 degrees F.
Jim
The temperature varies from the center of the brood nest to the wall of the hive. A thermometer inside a top vet will only be a few degrees warmer then ambient. It is no where near the brood nest at the beginning of winter. There are IR photos all over the net depicting temperatures all over the hive. It has even been done with probes. Google it.
All settled in Ben, weather is paradise.
Quote from: Acebird on December 01, 2018, 08:41:52 AM
All settled in Ben, weather is paradise.
I can only Imagine!!! 👍🏻😁
Quote from: sawdstmakr on December 01, 2018, 08:28:32 AM
Phillip,
The bees will keep the inside of cluster at between 93 to 95 degrees F.
Jim
Thanks Jim, that is amazing to me that they are able to do this .
Phillip Hall
What is even more amazing is that they do it with very little honey.
Jim
>I have a question, does anyone know what the inside hive cluster tempature is generally maintained by the bees during winter months. Say Mid-America?
When they are not rearing brood (and they often are) the temperature is around 70F When they are rearing brood it's 93F. They usually raise a small batch of brood right around new years and after taking a break another one in February or March.
Over here they start raising broods after Dec. 26th. With the newly mated after the solstice queens, they will
lay small patches of broods all winter long. It is something to keep the brood nest going until the Spring. With good flying weather the
old bees disappeared really fast. If they cannot keep up with the new winter bees then the hive is doom over time. A one or 2 cold nights will
not bother them that much.