Hi there! I'm brand new to beekeeping - 3 weeks into my first beekeeping class here in Chatham County, NC. I'm overwhelmed by the information available, most of which seems contradictory. A beekeeping friend who is winding down as he ages has offered me some of his medium boxes and inner/outer covers. Some sources say, "Run away! This can increase your chance of diseased bees!" (I'll quiz him attentively before receipt, just to be sure there's no known history of disease). One chap says, "Put the boxes in a deep freeze for x amount of time and you'll be fine". A third fellow suggested fumigating them. I am torn between the allure of free stuff and the peril of potentially wiping out my bees and the emotional and financial investment that entails. Thanks!
I would run.
Yes be very careful. Maybe someone in bee club could give you some info about this beekeeper.
Western Piedmont Don Hopkins (919) 218-3310
[email protected]is your state bee inspector. He will pick up you used equipment and take it to Raleigh and have it fumigated, then return it to you. The charge is minimal. Contact him. He is a great asset, and a very friendly fellow. You will be glad you met him
Quote from: Duc Duck Doc on January 21, 2019, 10:24:19 AM
Hi there! I'm brand new to beekeeping - 3 weeks into my first beekeeping class here in Chatham County, NC. I'm overwhelmed by the information available, most of which seems contradictory. A beekeeping friend who is winding down as he ages has offered me some of his medium boxes and inner/outer covers. Some sources say, "Run away! This can increase your chance of diseased bees!" (I'll quiz him attentively before receipt, just to be sure there's no known history of disease). One chap says, "Put the boxes in a deep freeze for x amount of time and you'll be fine". A third fellow suggested fumigating them. I am torn between the allure of free stuff and the peril of potentially wiping out my bees and the emotional and financial investment that entails. Thanks!
IF you decide to go with the used equipment, the ONLY thing that will kill AFB is to wax dip the equipment at a temperature greater than 270 for at least 10 minutes, I think I would shoot for 12 or just before the wood begins to darken.
The simple answer is that it is usually NOT worth the risk to use used beekeeping equipment. The chance of encountering AFB is probably not that high but other diseases can be carried and starting out with new woodware avoids the possibility.
""IF you decide to go with the used equipment, the ONLY thing that will kill AFB is to wax dip the equipment at a temperature greater than 270 for at least 10 minutes, I think I would shoot for 12 or just before the wood begins to darken.""
That is totally INCORRECT.
NC has a gas chamber they will put your used equipment through and it will remove all AFB spores and any other problems it may be harboring. The cost is very nominal.
How is this much different than getting a Nuc? A nuc is used equipment. Isnt it?
Quote from: Haveuseen1? on January 21, 2019, 03:20:48 PM
How is this much different than getting a Nuc? A nuc is used equipment. Isnt it?
Totally different. Don?t place a new nuc into an established beeyard. Never do that without a health certificate from a bee inspector or from the seller. Or do it after having it quarantined for some weeks and checked by an experienced beekeeper.
If it?s your first nuc, you may risk it but your neighbor beekeepers will thank you for having a certificate.
You would not want to place a package on equipement carrying disease and not know it.
Buying used equip. is a gamble. The odds have been getting better for the last 50 years. I have bought used equip. since 1976. I have also bought existing hives for the same amount of time. In all, I have had AFB in a total of 2 hives. Both from live hives I purchased. I have never gotten AFB from empty equip. I bought.
Murphy's law..... Now that I've said that, the next piece of used equip. I buy will have AFB. :shocked:
Duc Duck Doc.
The information given to you by iddee is spot on. I am thinking that NC Is one of, if not the only state that has, or offers this unique service and this service might not be well known to other beekeepers from other states. If I'm wrong someone from another state with a similar program please correct me. Now Live Oak has always given good information and he may be correct as well about the waxing process?? Im assuming these boxes are not occupied Being you said boxes and inner covers. Many many old time bee keepers will probably advise against this and they have good reasons... Your call ... good luck with your new hobby!!
Phillip Hall " Ben Framed"
LiveOak is correct in the specifics of killing spores is very difficult and not easily accomplished.
Certainly ID is correct with fumigation, most likely by formaldehyde will indeed sterilize anything. Nothing living can survive formaldehyde, not spores, mold, fungus, nor bacteria.
I am guessing Live Oak was not aware of fumigation in NC. I was not aware until ID informed me. North Carolina with its Fumigation is up to date and light years ahead of most states.
ID, how did you resolve the 2 cases of AFB??? Just me, I would burn immediately.
Blessings
Welcome to Beemaster Duc Duck Doc.
Good advice from everyone here. I started with homemade used equipment given to me by a friend. Luckily I didn't have any disease problems. However, the problem I found was Bee Space and Compatibility. When I needed more equipment, I didn't want to keep "taking" from him so I ordered some. What I got didn't fit what I had. So I ended up switching over to all new equipment.
Also, the Bee Spacing was wrong in the used equipment leading to all kinds of problems.
All of that can be a real pain. Just some addituonal things to watch out for.
Cheers
Alan
Stinger, 1 quart motor oil, one gallon gas, one match.
Fixed them right up.
All right. We don`t have AFB much in Germany, so....
But wouldn?t it be allright to use a large gas-torch and scorch it till it fumes and is quite darkened? It should get all spores, done thouroughly, no?
Also, there should be ways in a bath, like a soda-connection? Even at somewhere below boiling.
The gas-chamber sounds nice. Shipping might be the problem.
Quote from: blackforest beekeeper on January 22, 2019, 03:00:59 AM
All right. We don`t have AFB much in Germany, so....
But wouldn?t it be allright to use a large gas-torch and scorch it till it fumes and is quite darkened? It should get all spores, done thouroughly, no?
Also, there should be ways in a bath, like a soda-connection? Even at somewhere below boiling.
The gas-chamber sounds nice. Shipping might be the problem.
What? AFB spores are everywhere!! Two years past the restriction area was 5km near and I was lucky not to be checked.
That time the district policy was to enforce a special law about migrating beekeepers who since then must have a special certificate.
You can look the areas up in the bee magazine "Biene und Natur".
Switzerland has the most serious problems with EFB and AFB, my swiss aquaintances tell me. I?m right at the border to switzerland, swiss beekeepers place their hives in germany near me.
If AFB is detected, the bees are saved if possible and all equippement burned, but I read about some chemical baths to put the boxes in. The frames are burned.
If it?s detected in fall, the hive is sulphured and then burned completely. You get some money then, 60 Euro.
Hi SiWolke,
I know about how things are run in Germany about AFB and migrating. Thing is: It is A LOT worse in the US. Is what I mean.
We have had close restriction areas, too. But OPEN AFB even in those areas is a very rare thing, just because things are run like they are run. AFB-spores will probably be in any hive.
Die "Bienensachverst?ndigen" are - imho - not enough, though. Some are unexperienced new-bees that wouldn`t know a potatoe from a stone.
Quote from: blackforest beekeeper on January 22, 2019, 05:45:41 AM
Hi SiWolke,
I know about how things are run in Germany about AFB and migrating. Thing is: It is A LOT worse in the US. Is what I mean.
We have had close restriction areas, too. But OPEN AFB even in those areas is a very rare thing, just because things are run like they are run. AFB-spores will probably be in any hive.
Die "Bienensachverst?ndigen" are - imho - not enough, though. Some are unexperienced new-bees that wouldn`t know a potatoe from a stone.
Yes, they watch u-tube and think themselves experts.
It needs some seasons working bees practically to get knowledge. But not all beekeepers are interested in knowledge about brood disease. They only want to fight mites.
Our AFB case came from an experienced beekeepers who stored honey frames in a basement to which the neighbor bees had access. And the frames were infested.
I would never had started beekeeping without bee class or without a mentor.
If I was new and purchased a nuc I would take someone experienced with me to look at it or I would ask a neighbor beekeeper to sell me a split.
Not worth using old used equipment
Quote from: Duc Duck Doc on January 21, 2019, 10:24:19 AM
(I'll quiz him attentively before receipt, just to be sure there's no known history of disease).
Ask him point blank has he ever used an antibiotic and does he have anymore? If the answer is yes to either then walk. Don't insult him just walk.
QuoteNothing living can survive formaldehyde, not spores, mold, fungus, nor bacteria.
This is news to me.
Van take a look at this.
https://news.wisc.edu/microbe-eats-formaldehyde/
Have em ship his used equipment to me, buy brand new! Have a nice day
-J
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The chances of getting AFB from used boxes or inner covers is slim. Use your hive tool to scrap the inside of the box, the frame rest corners and any obvious wax buildup, pressure wash the inside at the local car wash and the odds drop to practically none. What you should avoid is used comb unless you know and trust the beekeeper who furnishes it.
I will use "used" equipment. I scorch the wood with this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lincoln-Electric-Torch-Kit/4742120
Not too interested in used comb now but have used it in the past. I froze it before I used it.
>He will pick up you used equipment and take it to Raleigh and have it fumigated, then return it to you
Can't beat that.
>IF you decide to go with the used equipment, the ONLY thing that will kill AFB is to wax dip the equipment at a temperature greater than 270 for at least 10 minutes, I think I would shoot for 12 or just before the wood begins to darken.
It's not the only thing. There is a fumigation method. There is also irradiation. And I never could get the wax much over 250 before it starts to boil over. I also don't think the wax or the heat kills the spores but it does encapsulate them to the point that they are not an issue. Wax dipping is a common treatment in Australia for AFB in equipment.
"Disinfection of wooden structures contaminated with Paenibacillus larvae subsp. larvae spores" Dobbelaere, et al. (Journal of Applied Microbiology 2001, 91, 212-216 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2672.2001.01376.x (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2672.2001.01376.x) ) showed dry heat at or above 160C (320F) for two hours left no viable spores, surface or internal. Paraffin dip for 10 minutes killed all surface and internal spores at 170C (338F). Bleach did not perform well even with concentrations above those readily available to the consumer. Scorching only killed spores near the surface. Fumigation and gamma radiation weren't part of this study. Autoclaving was less than 100% effective but no details were given for conditions used.
You can make some assessment of the AFB status, has the owner tested the honey for AFB. In Oz we continuously test honey, costs about US$30.
The other treatment which is very good is sterilisation by radiation, there are facilities in capital cities.
You double wrap the box in garbage bags and pack them on a pallet and the go through like that, you do frames, boxes, bottoms and lids.
Price is about US$7 per hive. You have to build it into the purchase price.
The thing of will the new hives fit into a present system, especially for transport in a migratory situation. We are 100% 8 frame and would not consider any 10 frame gear , even for free, too much hassle.