I just got offered a hive! It?s apparently four boxes tall (I don?t know the demensions and I haven?t seen any pictures yet). The beekeeper has had it for five years, and he?s just tired of it. He said they?re Africanized, and very calm. But my gardener said he looked at the hive and the bees appeared to be very dark colored... so I guess he?s wrong on them being Africanized (I?ve seen they are more golden colored) they must be something else or maybe the original queen five years ago was Africanized. He also said they swarm each year.
What questions should I ask before getting the hive? It sounds like a strong, healthy hive, so for right now I?m thinking yes, I will get it.
My questions to him so far are about the demensions of the boxes, what company he bought them from, and if he treated for mites.
Any other ideas?
I?m so excited!
Lizzie
My only question would be, ""When can I open them up and look at them". Then make arrangements to move them. If you can open them and go through a few brood frames under the honey without being eaten alive, take them home.
PS. Please be more specific on your location. If you are in San Diego, my advice will be different than if you are in Redding. Change your profile to give us an idea of your climate.
I would ask him what he has been treating them with. I would also ask him why he says they are Africanized Honey Bees. If he is getting out of the bees business, I would ask him if he has any bee equipment that he wants to get rid of.
Jim
Hello Lizzie. I thought I read somewhere here that you said you were in the Sacramento area. I'm in the Bay area. If you decide not to take them, pls let me know. I could give them a home.
Also - I was under the impression that, because it does freeze here, that the AHB's couldn't survive. I'm not entirely sure thats true though. Maybe others know more.
Alan
Here is a link to a map from 2011 - part way down the page. Fwiw.
https://cisr.ucr.edu/africanized_honey_bee.html
Iddee,
I am communicating to the beekeeper through my mom, who passed my questions along to her gardener, who passed them along to his friend, the beekeeper. So it?s very indirect. But I?ve asked if they were aggressive during a hive check, and I?m waiting for a response. He?s going to send pictures of it, and I would imagine if it?s four boxes tall that it must be healthy.
Sawdstmakr,
That?s a good idea. I will ask.
CoolBees,
Yes I?m just outside of northwest Sacramento. I also have people in mind that I would offer the hive to if I decided not to keep it. But thanks for the offer!
I haven?t heard about AHB being unable to survive freezing temperatures. I?ll look into it.
Thanks everyone!
-Lizzie
Quote from: CoolBees on January 29, 2019, 11:01:24 PM
Also - I was under the impression that, because it does freeze here, that the AHB's couldn't survive.
The genetics do because they breed with the local population. Do to packages and nucs suppliers in the south, Upstate NY has had african genetics show up. Because of the difficulty of re queening such a hive they burn it.
I think you will find they only show up for the season, then die in the winter. They started in Brazil and moved north and south. They stopped at a point going south. Transferring that climate to the north, it is said they will stop somewhere in Georgia on the east coast. Then they will be north of that only for the season that they travel.
Lizzie,
Unless your friend is an experienced beekeeper, I would take his Africanized bee statement with a grain of salt. I can make the calmest hive and make it aggressive. I can make the meanest hive calm. It is all about you handle them and how you smoke them.
I teach the 10 minute and 30 second smoking procedure. Get your smoker puffing thick smoke. Puff 3-4 puffs into the bottom of the hive. Wait full 10 minutes, puff 3-4 puffs into the bottom of the hive and wait 30 seconds. While waiting, slowly slide your hive tool between boxes to break the propolis. Do not bang on the hive tool to do this.
One thing you do not want to do is bang anything against your hives.
Move slowly and gently slide frames in and out of the hive. Remove the outer frame first and then leave it out when inspecting the frames to allow you to separate the frames before pulling them.
Do not open the hive during a dearth, they will bee very defensive.
By following the above, you will bee surprised how calm a mean hive becomes.
If you get a chance to inspect the hive try to break it down from 4 boxes into a smaller hive. There is a good chance at least one box will be empty with just comb in it and removing that box will make it easier to move the entire hive, don't forget to support the hive with strips of wood screwed into it's sides.
Even if the hive has some AHB genes in it you can always re-queen and if the hive is that big you should be able to split it and get two hives going with no real problems once queens are available in your area. Splitting a hot hive is one of the recommended ways to calm and control a hot hive so it's a pretty much win/win situation for you.
Luck with it.
Jim, per your reply Reply #8 on: Today at 10:58:38 am
I have heard you describe this method several times when a person with a hot hives seeks good advise. , I haven't had to use this, yet, but sure is good to know. Let me ask you as I know that you also do cutouts. Do you use this ten minute method when doing cut outs ?
Phillip
Quote from: Ben Framed on January 30, 2019, 01:22:52 PM
Jim, per your reply Reply #8 on: Today at 10:58:38 am
I have heard you describe this method several times when a person with a hot hives seeks good advise. , I haven't had to use this, yet, but sure is good to know. Let me ask you as I know that you also do cutouts. Do you use this ten minute method when doing cut outs ?
Phillip
Yes definitely. The only problem is when I remove really large hives or hard to get hives. After about an hour or so, if there are still a large amount of bees, they start to get grumpy again. This happened on that 12 foot tall hive in the strip mall tower.
Jim
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on January 30, 2019, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on January 30, 2019, 01:22:52 PM
Jim, per your reply Reply #8 on: Today at 10:58:38 am
I have heard you describe this method several times when a person with a hot hives seeks good advise. , I haven't had to use this, yet, but sure is good to know. Let me ask you as I know that you also do cutouts. Do you use this ten minute method when doing cut outs ?
Phillip
Yes definitely. The only problem is when I remove really large hives or hard to get hives. After about an hour or so, if there are still a large amount of bees, they start to get grumpy again. This happened on that 12 foot tall hive in the strip mall tower.
Jim
Jim
Thanks Jim, Y'all did a good job on that project.. I enjoyed the explanations along with the good pictures.
Phillip
Sawdstmakr,
I cannot get my smoker to get thick puffs of smoke. In the kit I bought it came with a pound of cotton which burned really nicely but I ran out of that and now I'm using wood pellets which don't really burn much at all. I can get a little bit of smoke and it works just fine because my current hive is super calm but if this new hive is more aggressive, I want to know how to get the smoker to produce thick puffs of smoke. What type of fuel do you use?
Beeboy01,
Good idea. The hive is being delivered by my gardener and then I take it from there.
Thanks for the advice!
Lizzie
I use wood shavings in my smoker now.
The bedding shavings one uses for small animals work fine.
Smoke them and wait for one or two minutes until the bees fill themselves with honey. This needs a little time. Don?t overdo the smoking or the bees are stressed.
Put in one or two puffs and again one, then wait.
Then open. I learned this from Michael Bush and it works fine whenever one of my hives is hot which happens often with my spicy hybrids or when thunderstorms are nearing.
While working one hive I smoke the next one in advance.
While having a hive open I put a cloth on top of the side frames while pulling the broodframes.
The honey frames at the sides in my hives are very well watched, so I try to cover them while working. The broodframe bees are staying on the comb.
I?m not tossing the bees anymore. Too much stress for the bees, too much danger the queen is lost in the grass. I use my finger to chase them away to look at the brood cells or use a feather to brush them off.
When my colonies are biggest I place a second box near standing on the lid. I move the outer frames to this box and cover the box except to a small entrance hole left open. When the hive is separated by that the bees are not concentrated on me anymore. Same I do when I want to split. I have some time then to look for the queen and I?m able to separate her quickly on her comb without having to catch her.
Quote from: LizzieBee on January 31, 2019, 12:24:53 AM
Sawdstmakr,
I cannot get my smoker to get thick puffs of smoke. In the kit I bought it came with a pound of cotton which burned really nicely but I ran out of that and now I'm using wood pellets which don't really burn much at all.
It is kind of a balancing act. If you think of a camp fire where one will produce nothing but smoke that you can't get away from and another will burn clean and hot. For the most part the difference is moisture. Dry pellets are going to burn clean. If they are damp they will smolder. The trick is to get the smoke without the fire going out. Pine needles smoke without going out for instance. Some beekeepers get a hot fire going and then put in green grass. I use cardboard and sawdust. The cardboard will burn fast until you add the sawdust. Everyone likes their own fuel that they have chosen because they have learned what the balancing act is to keep it going without burning clean. If you like the pellets then experiment with other fuel sources to add that will create the smoke (or some mixture). Most clothing doesn't work so well because it has a fire retardant added unless it is old and washed many times. The old timers stick to what is available around them, things like leaves, grass, and pine needles. They also have the most experience with the balancing act so the smoker is second nature.
I just fill my smoker about half way with pine needles and hit the fuel with a propane torch. Once it gets really going I stuff some more pine needles on top of the lit fuel and work the bellows to make sure it is staying lit. Then close the top and gently work the bellows till the smoke looks good and white. It's important to use loose dry fuel which is where most problems occur. Wood pellets are a little too dense to start with but you should be able to add them in the fire box once your smoker gets properly lit. Let your inner pyromaniac take charge and you will be fine. ;)
Oh I should try a propane torch.
Is there any special way I should ?introduce? the new hive to my current one? I still haven?t gotten the new one. Should I just put the new hive next to the old one or will that negatively affect them?
Lizzie
Quote from: LizzieBee on February 10, 2019, 12:51:29 AM
Oh I should try a propane torch.
Is there any special way I should ?introduce? the new hive to my current one? I still haven?t gotten the new one. Should I just put the new hive next to the old one or will that negatively affect them?
Lizzie
Liz I also use a propane tourch. But, I don't reccomend it to someone who is not familiar with the use of it. After all, it is like holding a lit bomb in you hand, so the speak. I would rather reccomend you looking up the video from Don the Fat Beeman and his instructions on how to light a smoker. Very safe, efficient, and effective.
Phillip
My dad would be lighting it for me. I don?t think he trusts me to use it... it?s quite dangerous if it isn?t used properly.
Lizzie
Quote from: LizzieBee on February 10, 2019, 01:12:08 AM
My dad would be lighting it for me. I don?t think he trusts me to use it... it?s quite dangerous if it isn?t used properly.
Lizzie
Could be dangerous. Experience is best in my opinion. As I said earlier Don has a good video on this .
I just got the hive today! It turns out they are Italian. Fuzzy, yellow-orange golden bees. Two deep ten frame boxes. I have yet to look inside. I?m very curious though. Due to the cold temperatures and today being their first day here I did not look inside. It?s supposed to warm up in about a week so I?ll check then. Apparently the beekeeper never harvested honey or generally did anything with the hive the entire five years he had it. I?m so excited to look inside!
Lizzie
Quote from: LizzieBee on February 11, 2019, 10:59:29 PM
I just got the hive today! It turns out they are Italian. Fuzzy, yellow-orange golden bees. Two deep ten frame boxes. I have yet to look inside. I?m very curious though. Due to the cold temperatures and today being their first day here I did not look inside. It?s supposed to warm up in about a week so I?ll check then. Apparently the beekeeper never harvested honey or generally did anything with the hive the entire five years he had it. I?m so excited to look inside!
Lizzie
I'm excited for you !!!! Congratulations!!
Quote from: LizzieBee on February 11, 2019, 10:59:29 PM
Apparently the beekeeper never harvested honey or generally did anything with the hive the entire five years he had it.
Lizzie
That?s quiet interesting to me. Please update!
Congrats too!
You must be strong to move 2 10 frame deeps.
Quote from: Ben Framed on February 11, 2019, 11:02:43 PM
Quote from: LizzieBee on February 11, 2019, 10:59:29 PM
I just got the hive today! It turns out they are Italian. Fuzzy, yellow-orange golden bees. Two deep ten frame boxes. I have yet to look inside. I?m very curious though. Due to the cold temperatures and today being their first day here I did not look inside. It?s supposed to warm up in about a week so I?ll check then. Apparently the beekeeper never harvested honey or generally did anything with the hive the entire five years he had it. I?m so excited to look inside!
Lizzie
I'm excited for you !!!! Congratulations!!
Lizzie, I watched the following video last night. Steve from Florida is helping a friend who was given a hive. Very interesting to see the "I don't know hardly anything about bees", new bee owner. And very interesting to see the given hive opened, and see what was inside. I hope you enjoy the video.
https://youtu.be/KIJi2v0tOvA
Liz, Joe May just released a video on how to lite a smoker using a vacuum. You might find it to be interesting and educational. Joe has put out many good videos, along with beginner series, as well as intermediate series videos. Joe is a really nice guy, I have learned a lot from him. He is always happy to help anyway he can. He has never failed to answer any question that I have ask him in the comment section beneath his videos. Even though I have never met him face to face, I feel he is an old friend. His videos make you feel that you are tagging along with him through out his bee yard.
Ed/La,
It was surprisingly very lightweight and I also got help from my dad carrying the hive.
Ben Framed,
I enjoyed the video. I?m so excited to look inside! It?s too cold and also rainy right now. I might be able to check on Sunday. I?m slightly concerned though because the hive appears to be very inactive compared to my hive of carniolans. It could be the weather. It also sounds much quieter than my dad there hive. Also I took a peek yesterday, just took off the telescoping cover and I could see through the inner cover hole that there were no bees in the upper box. I can hear a faint buzzing sound in the lower box. I?ll look up the video of Joe May. Thanks!
I took a peek in the hive today cause it warmed up for a bit. The upper box appears to be foundation less. It looks like the frames are homemade. I only looked at two frames in the middle (which were almost completely full of honey and had a few bees scattered around). I looked at one of the outermost frames, which had nothing on it except a little bit of waxmoth webbing... very few bees in that box. Also, compared to my other hive?s upper box, this hive?s was much lighter. So I?m assuming without looking at all the frames, there isn?t a whole lot of honey.
There was a very thin slightly bluish-green cloth laying across the frames of the lower box. Do you think that was some type of mite treatment? There were a lot of dead ants in it.
Now to the lower box. It looks like there are some plastic frames. Very small cluster only covering two frames. I looked at one frame, the third from the outside, which was empty and slightly moldy. I looked at one of the frames that the cluster was on and it and a beautiful, solid brood pattern. I forgot to look for eggs! Oops! I didn?t see the queen, either, although I don?t know what she looks like. I?m assuming golden cause most of the worker bees are that color.
Any thoughts?
Lizzie
Quote from: LizzieBee on February 14, 2019, 07:01:20 PM
I took a peek in the hive today cause it warmed up for a bit. The upper box appears to be foundation less. It looks like the frames are homemade. I only looked at two frames in the middle (which were almost completely full of honey and had a few bees scattered around). I looked at one of the outermost frames, which had nothing on it except a little bit of waxmoth webbing... very few bees in that box. Also, compared to my other hive?s upper box, this hive?s was much lighter. So I?m assuming without looking at all the frames, there isn?t a whole lot of honey.
There was a very thin slightly bluish-green cloth laying across the frames of the lower box. Do you think that was some type of mite treatment? There were a lot of dead ants in it.
Now to the lower box. It looks like there are some plastic frames. Very small cluster only covering two frames. I looked at one frame, the third from the outside, which was empty and slightly moldy. I looked at one of the frames that the cluster was on and it and a beautiful, solid brood pattern. I forgot to look for eggs! Oops! I didn?t see the queen, either, although I don?t know what she looks like. I?m assuming golden cause most of the worker bees are that color.
Any thoughts?
Lizzie
Well the brood sounds very encouraging!! I am only going through my first winter so I don't feel experienced enough in offering advise. I am sure that others will chim in soon!! Congratulations! 🍾🎈🎉🎊
I'm guessing that the cloth is one of Randy Oliver's mite treatment clothes - homemade using OA & glycerin poured onto a shop towel. Just a guess.
Congrats on the hive!
Alan
Lizzie,
Remove the rag. You are describing a hive that is expanding. That is good. With only 2 frames of bees, during the next warm day, I would take that hive down to one box. Remove the empty frames in the bottom box and replace them with honey frames. If you have pollen frames, leave them next to the brood frames. Then shake the bees from the frames in the super that you are removing. If you are not having freezing nights, freeze the frames for 2 days and then allowed them to warm up in a protected area. It helps to put a fan on them for a day.
Jim
The cloth (which I removed) is kinda like a dryer sheet that you?d put in a laundry dryer.
Sawdstmakr,
I?m glad to hear it! I thought maybe they weren?t doing to well but I guess once all those bees hatch they can go to work and clean up and fill the frames. I think I might be able to open it up on Monday and move things around. Is freezing the frames for killing the mold?
Thank you!
Lizzie
Lizzie,
Freezing the frames kills all wax mothsand SHB, And their eggs.
Oh ok. Will do. Thanks!
Lizzie
I got a thorough look in the hive! Firstly, I?m so glad to say that I saw the queen! She looks a bit smaller than my carniolan in my other hive. The laying pattern on the frames looks really good, very solid. 7 out of 10 frames in the lower box were totally empty and some had lots of wax moth webbing. Also, I believe the frames that used to have pollen in them are now incredibly moldy - white fuzziness over those cells. I saw very little pollen just in general. A little bit of fresh pollen around the brood nest. So the other three frames in the box have brood.
I switched around the frames so now the hive is just one box with the brood in the middle, and as much honey as I could fit around it. So basically the frames with the most honey got put back in the hive. I haven?t seen a single mite on the bottom board tray. :happy:
Lizzie
Good news...
The mold on the pollen will be cleaned by the bees and the pollen used, Keep the brood frames together, then the honey frames, then the pollen frames outside that. Your spring is close enough that you should have a good hive by mid April. Feed a bit if needed.
CONGRATS