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BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Ben Framed on February 15, 2019, 12:36:52 AM

Title: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on February 15, 2019, 12:36:52 AM
 I recently watched a video of a fella grading migratory beehives for the almond orchards.  I noticed that the tops were simply made by butting up boards next to each other and held together by strips running down the ends.  From the side view, these do not appear to be tongue and groove buttings but simply placed side by side, with the end strips holding them in place. Is this a common practice for migratory beehives? I assume the bees will  propolise any gaps between the boards, sealing to keep rain out? And the tops were painted white. I was surprised to see this. These tops look to have been thrown together by whatever material which might have been handy.
Thanks "Ben Framed"
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: BeeMaster2 on February 15, 2019, 12:45:46 AM
Ben,
That is what a lot of them are made of.
There is also a plywood that does not rot that is used and it is much better at protecting the bees.
Jim
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: jalentour on February 15, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
Ben, I use migratory tops nearly year round.  I put flashing on them to protect from weather and use an inner cover in the summer.  A lot cheaper than the standard top.  I use plywood and throw them away when they wear out. 
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on February 15, 2019, 09:34:07 AM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on February 15, 2019, 12:45:46 AM
Ben,
That is what a lot of them are made of.
There is also a plywood that does not rot that is used and it is much better at protecting the bees.
Jim

I use plywood myself, along with foam board as suggested by some of you here. The shabby tops that was seen on the inspection video surprised me. I couldn't have imagined, but apparently they work and work well? 
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: BeeMaster2 on February 15, 2019, 09:37:56 AM
Ben,
I think you will find that the regular plywood will start falling apart in just a few years unless it is really protected inside and out.
Jim
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on February 15, 2019, 09:41:04 AM
Quote from: jvalentour on February 15, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
Ben, I use migratory tops nearly year round.  I put flashing on them to protect from weather and use an inner cover in the summer.  A lot cheaper than the standard top.  I use plywood and throw them away when they wear out.

Thanks I also use plywood with a foam board as a inner cover. The tops which I describe look to be made from any scrap lumber of different widths, not tounge and groove either, can't be sealed from board to board? This surprised me. 
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: johnwratcliff on March 06, 2019, 07:49:18 AM
I use advantech. I put a coat of paint on them. I don?t pay anything for them. There are a ton of home builders in the area and I use up the scrap.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on March 06, 2019, 08:19:12 AM
Quote from: johnwratcliff on March 06, 2019, 07:49:18 AM
I use advantech. I put a coat of paint on them. I don?t pay anything for them. There are a ton of home builders in the area and I use up the scrap.

advantech Is the way to go. Unfortunately, as many homes which are being built in my area, very few, if any, are being built with the advantage of advantech, unless the builders are having it shipped in specifically direct from the manufacturers or some other source. I have called lumber companies, building supply companies etc and the only place that I have found it is ONE Lowes in the Memohis area. And even this is from a selection of  approximately 10-13 Lowes locations in the Memphis and surrounding areas. You are fortunate that your local builders use advantech, and so are the home buyers in your location. Thank you for your reply.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Michael Bush on March 06, 2019, 11:45:52 AM
Usually they are either plywood with no seams or tongue and groove.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Barhopper on March 06, 2019, 08:06:08 PM
Fir HDO like what?s on metal concrete forms is the best, IMO, but pricey. I?m trying Advantech on some Nucs this year. As you stated I get a piece from Lowe?s when they have it.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: sc-bee on March 06, 2019, 10:17:50 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on February 15, 2019, 12:36:52 AM
I recently watched a video of a fella grading migratory beehives for the almond orchards.  I noticed that the tops were simply made by butting up boards next to each other

Ben Framed:
All this about what or how to make a migratory top... yes cheap is one issue but you do know the reason for the migratory top design... correct :wink:
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on March 06, 2019, 11:57:50 PM
Quote from: sc-bee on March 06, 2019, 10:17:50 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on February 15, 2019, 12:36:52 AM
I recently watched a video of a fella grading migratory beehives for the almond orchards.  I noticed that the tops were simply made by butting up boards next to each other

Ben Framed:
All this about what or how to make a migratory top... yes cheap is one issue but you do know the reason for the migratory top design... correct :wink:

Yes, from what I understood, they are designed to be stacked on top of one another, as well as side to side as compactly as possible for shipping purposes. The initial video brought the original question is what surprised me. How thrown together the tops in that video were made.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: sc-bee on March 07, 2019, 12:11:39 AM
Quote from: Ben Framed on March 06, 2019, 11:57:50 PM
Quote from: sc-bee on March 06, 2019, 10:17:50 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on February 15, 2019, 12:36:52 AM
I recently watched a video of a fella grading migratory beehives for the almond orchards.  I noticed that the tops were simply made by butting up boards next to each other

Ben Framed:
All this about what or how to make a migratory top... yes cheap is one issue but you do know the reason for the migratory top design... correct :wink:

Yes, from what I understood, they are designed to be stacked on top of one another, as well as side to side as compactly as possible for shipping purposes. The initial video brought the original question is what surprised me. How thrown together the tops in that video were made.

Keepers that have to do it for a living have to be frugal... bees don't care whether it is scrap or grade 1. It don't take long to throw a cleat on the end of an old scrap board that is not any good for anything else....
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on March 07, 2019, 12:33:07 AM
Keepers that have to do it for a living have to be frugal... bee don't care whether it is scrap or grade 1. It don't take long to throw a cleat on the end of an old scrap board that is not any good for anything else....

And that is what surprised me. I try to build my tops to fit square to the top box to avoid cracks in between the face of the top and the face of the top box. And these hives being graded on the video as new arrivals to the almond fields, looked to be thrown together with boards buted together with small gaps in between. Apparently they must have came from a warm dry climate. I wish I would have filed that video for you to see. Is what I just described normal?
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: BeeMaster2 on March 07, 2019, 09:56:14 AM
Ben,
I have seen commercial hives that looked like they were ready for the scrap heap. As long as it can hold the frames, they used them.
Remember, bees will use anything that has a void in it, and down here they even make open air hives. Bees will use old fuel tanks, inside of old engines, I removed one old very large hive that had seven dust in the bottom of a truck tool box. I had to throw away a lot of honey because I was afraid it could bee contaminated with the poison.
Jim
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: sc-bee on March 07, 2019, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on March 07, 2019, 09:56:14 AM
Ben,
I have seen commercial hives that looked like they were ready for the scrap heap. As long as it can hold the frames, they used them.
Remember, bees will use anything that has a void in it,

And mine  :shocked:
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Barhopper on March 07, 2019, 08:56:20 PM
They work a lot better in heavy SHB country. Less area to hide.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: sc-bee on March 07, 2019, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: Barhopper on March 07, 2019, 08:56:20 PM
They work a lot better in heavy SHB country. Less area to hide.

Never considered that... makes sense...
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on March 07, 2019, 09:46:20 PM
"I removed one old very large hive that had seven dust in the bottom of a truck tool box. I had to throw away a lot of honey because I was afraid it could bee contaminated with the poison. Jim"

Yes, they will set up housekeeping wherever they see fit. I watched a video a while back that had a deceased squirrel inside of a cut out. I don't think the fellow was interested in the extra honey that time. 🍯
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: BeeMaster2 on March 07, 2019, 11:48:17 PM
Ben,
I received a call to remove a swarm from a squirrel box. The owners watched the swarm move into this box with a family of squirrels in the box. Luckily the baby squirrels were old enough to bee able to scramble out of the hive when this happened. If those babies were a little younger, they would have been killed and would have been propalized into a mummy.
Jim
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on March 08, 2019, 12:07:26 AM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on March 07, 2019, 11:48:17 PM
Ben,
I received a call to remove a swarm from a squirrel box. The owners watched the swarm move into this box with a family of squirrels in the box. Luckily the baby squirrels were old enough to bee able to scramble out of the hive when this happened. If those babies were a little younger, they would have been killed and would have been propalized into a mummy.
Jim

Jim, Your experiences mentioned above are very interesting. I expect you have seen even more "odd" things than you have mentioned here, as far as cut-outs and removals go? I am thinking each cut out, has its own "personalized" twist and turns as well?  Might make for a good topic?  I bet others can also add to the strange findings and circumstances while dealing with bees ?
Phillip
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: BeeMaster2 on March 08, 2019, 12:24:08 AM
I once was able to walk with a very large swarm as it moved from a tree just as I arrived to Retrieve it. It is really neat. You have thousands of bees over head heading going in the direction you are walking at a normal walking speed and bees flying very fast at you just below head height. That is when I figured out that the scout bees are flying very fast over the hive in the direction to the new hive until they get to the front of the swarm and then they drop down below the swarm and fly to the back of the swarm until they get to the back. All of the scout bees do this.  The other bees look in and follow the scouts. If you ever get a chance, try this. K
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Ben Framed on March 08, 2019, 12:32:52 AM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on March 08, 2019, 12:24:08 AM
I once was able to walk with a very large swarm as it moved from a tree just as I arrived to Retrieve it. It is really neat. You have thousands of bees over head heading going in the direction you are walking at a normal walking speed and bees flying very fast at you just below head height. That is when I figured out that the scout bees are flying very fast over the hive in the direction to the new hive until they get to the front of the swarm and then they drop down below the swarm and fly to the back of the swarm until they get to the back. All of the scout bees do this.  The other bees look in and follow the scouts. If you ever get a chance, try this. K

Outstandind! What an experience and by being observant, you obtained even more knodlege. I did not know this about the scout bees as I have never heard or read of this. Great stuff!!
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Oldbeavo on March 08, 2019, 05:38:12 AM
Can someone post a photo of a migratory top so the "down unders" know what you are talking about.
I think that is all we use but are not throw away.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: drobbins on March 08, 2019, 08:14:50 AM
here's a pic from a local supplier

https://www.mannlakeltd.com/shop-all-categories/hive-components/hive-accessories/top-covers/10-frame/10-frame-migratory-top-cover (https://www.mannlakeltd.com/shop-all-categories/hive-components/hive-accessories/top-covers/10-frame/10-frame-migratory-top-cover)
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: BeeMaster2 on March 08, 2019, 08:35:42 AM
That is one type, most are nothing more than a piece of plywood, sometimes with a 2 3/4 inch feeder hole in the middle.
Jim
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: jalentour on March 08, 2019, 10:37:55 AM
I make the tops out of treated plywood with wood strips under the top at each end, a drip edge I suppose.  Most of my m-tops have flashing to reduce water wicking thru.  Frequently I place a brick, block or rock on the top to prevent warping.  They are not pretty, just functional.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: herbhome on March 08, 2019, 12:32:44 PM
Quote from: Barhopper on March 07, 2019, 08:56:20 PM
They work a lot better in heavy SHB country. Less area to hide.

I have found this to be true and switched to them.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Skeggley on March 08, 2019, 07:49:52 PM
All we use over here are migratory lids but it appears they are a different design to yours over there.
Can't attatch photo to show but ours are vented and leave a void above the frames. They are also flush on all sides with tin flashing. It looks like yours still sit like a telescoping lid and still telescoping on the front and back.
Title: Re: Migratory Tops
Post by: Oldbeavo on March 11, 2019, 06:09:53 PM
That is what we use with a 40mm frame with a ply top, 20mm insulation and a 40 turn down on the lid.
Most use vents but some don't.
They are exactly the same size as the 8 or 10 frame box for transport as most bees in Oz are migratory, 4-6 shifts per season including pollination. Tough season this year and one of our groups have just had shift 7 to try and keep them fed.