When a queen cell is introduced and allowed to hatch, do the bees take down the cell afterward?
Eventually. Depends on where it is located and the bees. If they have a lot of brood to cap, it will probably be removed/repurposed quicker. I removed/cut out a large hive on Wednesday that had a new queen. I found old brood, most of it hatching, and only one frame of, at most, 4 day old, from being laid, larvae and one frame of eggs. There were lots of queen cups but I did not find a single queen cell.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 12, 2019, 11:00:13 AM
Eventually. Depends on where it is located and the bees. If they have a lot of brood to cap, it will probably be removed/repurposed quicker. I removed/cut out a large hive on Wednesday that had a new queen. I found old brood, most of it hatching, and only one frame of, at most, 4 day old, from being laid, larvae and one frame of eggs. There were lots of queen cups but I did not find a single queen cell.
Jim Altmiller
Thanks Jim, the reason I ask, I placed a frame with a swarm cell in a Mating nuke box. Actually it had three queen cells. The cells were capped. This was a week to ten days ago. I checked the box yesterday and there was not a queen cell left. Just as if there had never been one. Apparently the new defeating virgin was out on a mating flight because she wasn't to be found either . Is this common?
Thanks, Phillip
Yes; to both questions.
What THP said.
Thanks fellows!! Jim I just viewed your cutout. That was awesome! Mr Claude, I bet things are starting to kick in your area?
Phillip
Ben
Were the bees polishing like they were expecting a queen to lay?
Not finding a virgin queen, to me doesn't mean she wasn't there, just means they are very hard to spot especially if there is a good number of bees.
I've always had problems spotting a virgin queen, first I see a queen cell which hatches then nothing for about two weeks till the new queen gets mated and starts laying. By then the old cell has been taken down and I start to wonder if I'm hallucinating queen cells. ;) One of the hardest parts of bee keeping is to learn patience and not to panic.
Currently I'm dealing with three nucs that had queen cells which hatched and now nothing appears to be happening.
Quote from: Beeboy01 on April 12, 2019, 08:22:00 PM
... One of the hardest parts of bee keeping is to learn patience and not to panic.
Currently I'm dealing with three nucs that had queen cells which hatched and now nothing appears to be happening.
X2 ... me too. I hope all goes well for both of us.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on April 12, 2019, 04:40:08 PM
Ben
Were the bees polishing like they were expecting a queen to lay?
Not finding a virgin queen, to me doesn't mean she wasn't there, just means they are very hard to spot especially if there is a good number of bees.
Oldbevo, To tell the truth I really don't know. I didn't know to look for polishing. This is a new area for me. I will look again. Thanks for the question.
Phillip
PS . To my friends who have encouraged me this year, notice I didn't say "I am new to beekeeping so I didn't know to look for polishing" 😁 Thanks for each of your help and encouragement.
Beeboy01 "By then the old cell has been taken down and I start to wonder if I'm hallucinating queen cells. ;) "
Haa haa, I know what you mean! I was thinking. " I know there were three distinct cells on this frame! Now nothing! No virgin, no sign of a queen, though the bees were quiet, not acting queenless (roaring). I was thinking , " time to head to Beemaster and start asking questions!"
Thanks all. I will update if I have something to update. Keeping fingers crossed. In the meantime I will go back and look 👀 to see if the workers are polishing the cells as suggested by Oldbevo.
Thanks each of you for your replies!
Phillip
Quote from: CoolBees on April 13, 2019, 01:20:03 AM
Quote from: Beeboy01 on April 12, 2019, 08:22:00 PM
... One of the hardest parts of bee keeping is to learn patience and not to panic.
Currently I'm dealing with three nucs that had queen cells which hatched and now nothing appears to be happening.
X2 ... me too. I hope all goes well for both of us.
Me too, all three of us 😊😁
PS I bet the old pros here are smiling about this; Been where we are now... 😊😁
Oh, let me add one more twist. The day of morning I looked, the wind steady picked up through out the morning, turning into a wind advisory! Gust up to 35 MPH. I was thinking if she went out for a mating flight, she might wind up in Kalamazoo, Michigan!! Haa haa. We will see!!
When you have new queens in a Nuc or hive, the last thing you want to do is opening up the hive and inspecting it. The bees will blame the new queen for the disturbance and kill her. She needs to have at least some wet brood if not capped brood. If you are having to look for polished cells, you should not be in that hive/nuc.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 13, 2019, 07:53:41 AM
When you have new queens in a Nuc or hive, the last thing you want to do is opening up the hive and inspecting it. The bees will blame the new queen for the disturbance and kill her. She needs to have at least some wet brood if not capped brood. If you are having to look for polished cells, you should not be in that hive/nuc.
Jim Altmiller
The frame has plenty capped brood. I may have really messed up by looking to see if the Cells had hatchedI? I will hold off looking for more, for now.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 13, 2019, 07:53:41 AM
When you have new queens in a Nuc or hive, the last thing you want to do is opening up the hive and inspecting it. The bees will blame the new queen for the disturbance and kill her. She needs to have at least some wet brood if not capped brood. If you are having to look for polished cells, you should not be in that hive/nuc.
Jim Altmiller
Agreed. I also can be and anxious lookie-loo!
Perhaps this would help has a guide:
- I know when the cell is going to hatch by either observing the cell capping date or graft date and marking the calendar in my smartphone or a piece of tape on the hive.
- In the nucs, I will check on the evening that she should have emerged to get confirmation and to adjust the calendar for that box.
- Then stay out for minimum 8 days. I go back on day 12 after emergence. If no eggs by then look for an explanation why, such as: queen lost, poor flight weather, laying workers, injury. If inexplicable, she gets 4 more days grace to show her stuff. Failing the grace period, she is pinched and a new cell put in.
Upon opening too early, I have seen the bees desperately trying to protect a fresh queen from my view by crawling on her back and packing tightly against her pinning her down into the comb. At least that is what I think it was. It certainly could be they were beginning to ball her due to my disruption. A week later she was fine and laying up a storm. Others I have opened early, seen her and a small patch of eggs. A week later she was gone and QCs started from her eggs.
Resist temptation. Go ahead and check the day or up to 2 days after she was supposed to emerge. No harm done then. After that, stay out for 10 days. 12 is better.
Hope that Helps!
Does help, Thanks Mr Claude
Phillip
Quote from: Ben Framed on April 13, 2019, 07:18:46 AM
... 😁
PS I bet the old pros here are smiling about this; Been where we are now... 😊😁
I'll bet they are. Hey, at least we are trying, caring, and asking ... right? :grin:
With the great people here helping, we will end up good I think. My hats off to all of them.
Quote from: CoolBees on April 13, 2019, 06:54:59 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on April 13, 2019, 07:18:46 AM
... 😁
PS I bet the old pros here are smiling about this; Been where we are now... 😊😁
I'll bet they are. Hey, at least we are trying, caring, and asking ... right? :grin:
With the great people here helping, we will end up good I think. My hats off to all of them.
True, we are trying, ''and how'' as John Wayne use to say!! :grin: Good helpful folks here for sure!!
Honey pump-
How do laying workers affect a queen from laying and how is that changed to become queen right again?
Laying workers is caused by absence of laying queen and open brood (larvae) for a long while. The condition is the bees last ditch effort to continue their genetic line. By the time there are LW, the average age of the bees is also getting quite old.
When enough LW bees have developed, and there can be hundreds of them, the hive believes it is queenrite. LW hives kill queens! This includes giving them brood to make a queen or giving them a ripe queen cell. I have rarely seen the LW raise their own queen from brood given. They do initially accept the new virgin from a ripe cell given. She will come back mated, start to lay, and shortly thereafter they kill her too. In my experience, attempts at re-queening a LW hive are just exercises in futility. Some folks have had success. For me, I am way past the experimentations, permutations, and combinations of manipulations. The time and effort are just too high against the dismal chance of success. It is a condition fraught with disappointment and frustration.
Do not despair when you find it. All is not lost. I do recommend either of these two options to deal with LW hive that take minimal effort and get positive results:
1 - (Preferred), combine then separate. Newspaper combine the LW beebox on top of a strong hive. The strong hive will detect, seek, and destroy the LW bees in short order. The pile of dead bees out front 2 days later are all the laying workers that have been ousted. After a week or two, go do a split and introduce a mated queen or a very ripe queen cell.
2 - If there are few bees, small colony, just completely remove the hive from its location and shake it out. Dismantle the hive and shake out all the bees. Put the equipment into temporary storage or use it on your other hives. The bees shook out will initially go to where the hive was. Bee-wildered they will circle and ultimately will go beg their way into the other hives. Yes, this includes the LW bees, they do fly around just fine like all the others. The other hives will get them all sorted out. After a week or two go find the strongest hive, do a split and introduce a new queen or very ripe queen cell.
Long story short: Once you see laying workers, please do not waste your time and efforts trying to queen them. Use up the resources and the bees elsewhere. Use the organized bees of other queenrite hives to sort out the rogue laying workers. Come back and rebuild a hive later (splits/nucs).
If you want to try other methods, go for it. Just sayin; -been there done that- ; and hope this info saves you from going down that path.
Hope that helps!
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on April 16, 2019, 11:53:03 AM
Laying workers is caused by absence of laying queen and open brood (larvae) for a long while. The condition is the bees last ditch effort to continue their genetic line. By the time there are LW, the average age of the bees is also getting quite old.
When enough LW bees have developed, and there can be hundreds of them, the hive believes it is queenrite. LW hives kill queens! This includes giving them brood to make a queen or giving them a ripe queen cell. I have rarely seen the LW raise their own queen from brood given. They do initially accept the new virgin from a ripe cell given. She will come back mated, start to lay, and shortly thereafter they kill her too. In my experience, attempts at re-queening a LW hive are just exercises in futility. Some folks have had success. For me, I am way past the experimentations, permutations, and combinations of manipulations. The time and effort are just too high against the dismal chance of success. It is a condition fraught with disappointment and frustration.
Do not despair when you find it. All is not lost. I do recommend either of these two options to deal with LW hive that take minimal effort and get positive results:
1 - (Preferred), combine then separate. Newspaper combine the LW beebox on top of a strong hive. The strong hive will detect, seek, and destroy the LW bees in short order. The pile of dead bees out front 2 days later are all the laying workers that have been ousted. After a week or two, go do a split and introduce a mated queen or a very ripe queen cell.
2 - If there are few bees, small colony, just completely remove the hive from its location and shake it out. Dismantle the hive and shake out all the bees. Put the equipment into temporary storage or use it on your other hives. The bees shook out will initially go to where the hive was. Bee-wildered they will circle and ultimately will go beg their way into the other hives. Yes, this includes the LW bees, they do fly around just fine like all the others. The other hives will get them all sorted out. After a week or two go find the strongest hive, do a split and introduce a new queen or very ripe queen cell.
Long story short: Once you see laying workers, please do not waste your time and efforts trying to queen them. Use up the resources and the bees elsewhere. Use the organized bees of other queenrite hives to sort out the rogue laying workers. Come back and rebuild a hive later (splits/nucs).
If you want to try other methods, go for it. Just sayin; -been there done that- ; and hope this info saves you from going down that path.
Hope that helps!
Another one for the files Mr Claude!! Many thanks,
Phillip