When a bee beard is on the front entrance of a box is the queen in the middle of the beard and the bees waiting for her to move and follow her in swarming? Or, are the bearded bees waiting for her to come out of the box and she takes flight with then? Or are the bearded bees waiting on a queen to return from a mating flight before the swarm takes off? If none of the above what is the attitude before the swarming flight with the bee beard? Thanks,
Phillip
Ben,
I get to see this with my observation hive. When the bees beard and stay out of the hive at night, it is a good indication that they are getting ready to swarm. When the bees beard and go in in the evening, they are just trying to minimize the temperature of the hive by reducing the number of bees in the hive.
When they are getting ready to swarm, the queen does not leave until she is ushered out by the bees as they are swarming. She is laying eggs up until she leaves even though the bees have her on a diet during the last week before the exodus. She is laying a lot less eggs on the last days but she does lay. I have had the observation hive swarm and none of the original queen sells survive but 16 days later a new queen emerged from an emergency cell.
Jim Altmiller
Very good information Jim!! Thank you for you you detailed response. Much appreciated!! One for the note book!! Thanks,
Phillip
That?s good to know. I was thinking bearding was just a way to regulate temp only.
Jim, Agreed with your text. You provide useful info with your observation hives.
I have a hive that is exception to the norm. This hive bearded most of last year, till well after dark and sometimes still bearded in the morning. I added vents, added deeps, made no difference. This year same hive is bearding, I just checked 8:12 pm, 72F almost dark, yep, they are bearded. The only hive out of 14 to beard this way, all day and most of night. July and August, all night. The hive did not swarm in 2018. Calm bees I might add.
I just requeen this hive. In about 8-10 weeks I will know if it?s genetic trait or not.
Cheers
Quote from: van from Arkansas on April 30, 2019, 10:30:04 PM
Jim, Agreed with your text. You provide useful info with your observation hives.
I have a hive that is exception to the norm. This hive bearded most of last year, till well after dark and sometimes still bearded in the morning. I added vents, added deeps, made no difference. This year same hive is bearding, I just checked 8:12 pm, 72F almost dark, yep, they are bearded. The only hive out of 14 to beard this way, all day and most of night. July and August, all night. The hive did not swarm in 2018. Calm bees I might add.
I just requeen this hive. In about 8-10 weeks I will know if it?s genetic trait or not.
Cheers
Mr Van, is this the hive that you posted a picture of last year?
Bearding does not indicate swarming nor does it indicate that they are not getting ready to swarm.
http://bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#bearding
Quote from: Ben Framed on April 30, 2019, 10:49:50 PM
Quote from: van from Arkansas on April 30, 2019, 10:30:04 PM
Jim, Agreed with your text. You provide useful info with your observation hives.
I have a hive that is exception to the norm. This hive bearded most of last year, till well after dark and sometimes still bearded in the morning. I added vents, added deeps, made no difference. This year same hive is bearding, I just checked 8:12 pm, 72F almost dark, yep, they are bearded. The only hive out of 14 to beard this way, all day and most of night. July and August, all night. The hive did not swarm in 2018. Calm bees I might add.
I just requeen this hive. In about 8-10 weeks I will know if it?s genetic trait or not.
Cheers
Mr Van, is this the hive that you posted a picture of last year?
Yes, you have a very good memory, Phil.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on April 30, 2019, 09:12:14 PM
Ben,
I get to see this with my observation hive. When the bees beard and stay out of the hive at night, it is a good indication that they are getting ready to swarm. When the bees beard and go in in the evening, they are just trying to minimize the temperature of the hive by reducing the number of bees in the hive.
When they are getting ready to swarm, the queen does not leave until she is ushered out by the bees as they are swarming. She is laying eggs up until she leaves even though the bees have her on a diet during the last week before the exodus. She is laying a lot less eggs on the last days but she does lay. I have had the observation hive swarm and none of the original queen sells survive but 16 days later a new queen emerged from an emergency cell.
Jim Altmiller
M. Bush, what Jim says about bearding is observed, seen in his observation hive.
Blessings
Thanks Mr Van, the picture stood out to me as the bees seemed to stay on the one box and line up at he joint as they were on a border. The upper box with the different color. I thought that was interesting along with the post.
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Jim, I really like the idea of the observation hive. I have read your post here before about yours. Thanks for your post on the subject. I am not in a position to undertake the project at the present time but sometime in the future I might be bugging 🐝 you about more detail.
Phillip
@ Van
Mr Van, I like the fawn picture. Was this taken by you? Last year we had two (twins) hanging out along with their mother around our home. We would see them regularly in our yard.
Phillip
Bearding is a sign of a strong hives. Weak hives don't swarm. Strong hives swarm. Not all of them, but the ones that swarm are always strong hives and strong hives beard. In other words there is an indirect relationship. So if they are bearding it doesn't mean they are trying to swarm nor that they are not trying to swarm, but is probably an indicator that you need to take a look at what's happening just in case.
but is probably an indicator that you need to take a look at what's happening just in case.
My thoughts exactly. Thanks
Ben,
When yo are ready to build your observation hive, the plans are right here on BeeMaster under Equipment Usage and hive plans. I think they were posted in 2010.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: sawdstmakr on May 01, 2019, 02:18:22 PM
Ben,
When yo are ready to build your observation hive, the plans are right here on BeeMaster under Equipment Usage and hive plans. I think they were posted in 2010.
Jim Altmiller
Thanks Jim
Update on the hanging, bearded hive. There were about 12 swarm cells, 0 were capped. They were already running out of room in the brood area and filling with honey. These bees was located in a five frame nuke system Quad stacked. I had just recently added boxes by check-boarding. These bees are booming! I broke these down into 10 frame boxes today. On the bottom I placed 7 brood frames and added three empty frames in between the middle ones via checker-boarding. I added a second brood on top on this one same M/O. (box checker-boarding) The third top box was left with 6 frames of honey and again added frames via check-boarding. So the original 20 frames are now in 3, 10 frame boxes. As long as I didn?t miss a queen cell, these should be fine I am thinking. Lesson learned, once 2 five frame nucs have at least 7 frames drawn out its time for 10 frame boxes, and or splitting, if not before on the latter. Transferring 4 five frame nucs is more trouble that can easily be avoided in my opinion. As fast as they multiply, give them plenty of room to develop?
So what did you do with the queen cells? You removed them? I would split it three ways or more and make sure each has some queen cells. I almost never destroy a queen cell. The only time I do is if I really don't want the genetics. Once they have queen cells, they will probably swarm no matter what you do.
Quote from: Michael Bush on May 02, 2019, 09:17:41 AM
So what did you do with the queen cells? You removed them? I would split it three ways or more and make sure each has some queen cells. I almost never destroy a queen cell. The only time I do is if I really don't want the genetics. Once they have queen cells, they will probably swarm no matter what you do.
Not in this case. I decided to use this hive is a honey production hive since they already had six frames of honey. None of the cells were capped. Had they been capped, I would have split them Using frames from other nucs. Yes, I was tempted, but I did not want to lose this queen to a swarm. Lacking experience I took the bird in the hand over 12 in the bush so to speak. All other nukes I am splitting. May sound a little greedy but I would like some honey for myself also. all other nukes I am splitting. May sound a little greedy but I would like some honey for myself also 😁
Thank you for your response Mr. Bush,
Phillip
It has nothing to do with greed. I split them when they have queen cells because it's a losing battle trying to stop them at that point in my experience.
Quote from: Michael Bush on May 02, 2019, 10:44:16 AM
It has nothing to do with greed. I split them when they have queen cells because it's a losing battle trying to stop them at that point in my experience.
Thanks Mr Bush. I would like some honey. Yum. I have understood that as long as swarm cells are not capped, then mashed , and bees given space they will usually not swarm. But if the cells are capped you can not change their mind. That is the reasoning that I went on. Was this wrong information? Again thank you for chiming in, your advise is always very much appreciated.
Phillip
> I have understood that as long as swarm cells are not capped, then mashed , and bees given space they will usually not swarm.
That is not my experience. If they have cells, I accept their decision because fighting it is more work than it's worth and usually fails. You might succeed. "You never can tell with bees."--Winnie the Pooh
Your experiences, I very much appreciate, and you sharing them even the more! Thank you for the updated post. That being the case, I will check this hive again in a few days looking for more cells. If I do find more cells I will split.I do not want to fight them either. Now a question 😊😁, will it be best to move the old queen to a new location? Leave one cell in the original hive, and I would assume put the rest of the cells In nucs? Thanks, Phillip
I have found that if you remove the queen and leave at least two queen cells, the bees pack in the nectar while they are waiting for the new queen to mate and start laying.
Quote from: cao on May 02, 2019, 03:08:52 PM
I have found that if you remove the queen and leave at least two queen cells, the bees pack in the nectar while they are waiting for the new queen to mate and start laying.
Thanks Cao, Looks like I missed the boat all the way around!! I appreciate your input.
Phillip
Usually by moving the queen into a new hive with room to grow, you make the hive think they have swarmed and they settle down.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: sawdstmakr on May 03, 2019, 12:53:37 AM
Usually by moving the queen into a new hive with room to grow, you make the hive think they have swarmed and they settle down.
Jim Altmiller
Thanks Jim, looking back that is what I should have done along with following. M Bushes advise. I would that I had ask before leaping. If I find new queen cells when I go back and check I will face it that I wasted a good week that would have been better spent devolving 12 new hives with the 12 uncapped queen cells that I destroyed. As they say Live, study, and learn. Thanks to all who responded to this topic. Special thanks to you Mr Bush. As Coolbees once said, you folks are terrific.
Phillip
>Now a question 😊😁, will it be best to move the old queen to a new location? Leave one cell in the original hive, and I would assume put the rest of the cells In nucs? Thanks, Phillip
If I found her (and I wouldn't spend any time looking other than looking at each frame as I go) then, yes, I would put her in the new location. If I didn't find her, I wouldn't worry about where she is... I leave every part of the split with a queen cell. Always. Even the one with the queen.
Quote from: Michael Bush on May 06, 2019, 01:59:12 PM
I leave every part of the split with a queen cell. Always. Even the one with the queen.
Why do you do this, Michael?
Thank you Mr Bush
Phillip
>Why do you do this, Michael?
What if they were superseding and you are wrong about them swarming? What if the queen failing is one of the triggers of the swarming? I believe in letting a natural course complete while manipulating some to keep the bees in my hives. If I split the hive they are unlikely to swarm and likely the new queen will just come off as a supersedure. I am more willing to risk a possible (very unlikely) swarm than a possible (more likely) queenlessness as an outcome.
Quote from: Michael Bush on May 06, 2019, 04:25:40 PM
>Why do you do this, Michael?
What if they were superseding and you are wrong about them swarming? What if the queen failing is one of the triggers of the swarming? I believe in letting a natural course complete while manipulating some to keep the bees in my hives. If I split the hive they are unlikely to swarm and likely the new queen will just come off as a supersedure. I am more willing to risk a possible (very unlikely) swarm than a possible (more likely) queenlessness as an outcome.
Okay, that makes good sense. Thanks, Michael.