This is my first year beekeeping and I've been reading up on it for a while. From my knowledge you should add a second brood box once the bees draw out 6-7 out of the 10 frames. Yesterday was their 18th day in the hive and i added a second brood box. I thought the queen needed space to lay eggs because a majority of the frames have brood as you can see in the video below. Here's the breakdown: 1st frame on far left is empty, 2nd frame has halfway with comb, 3rd frame had stored pollen and syrup/nectar, 4th frame has honey and brood, 5th frame has honey and brood, 6th frame had honey and brood, 7th frame has pollen and nectar and honey, 8th frame has halfway with comb, 9-10th are empty. I put the 3rd and 5th frame in the second brood box, did some checker boarding and put the hive back together. I'm a little worried that i put it on too soon. I fed them syrup to get them to draw comb in the second brood box. Did I do this right? Please let me know.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MKRxBWiEHA
Please don't judge my suit i don't have much more money to spend so i threw on fishing waiters and a rain jacket. Believe it or not it works pretty well. :wink:
You are a bit early, but with a good flow on, they should catch up.
Next time, keep all brood frames together, then move an empty frame in to where it is next to the brood frames. When the last empty is moved in, then add a box and move a supply frame or two up, again putting the empties JUST outside the brood frames.
Quote from: iddee on May 17, 2019, 05:32:40 PM
You are a bit early, but with a good flow on, they should catch up.
Next time, keep all brood frames together, then move an empty frame in to where it is next to the brood frames. When the last empty is moved in, then add a box and move a supply frame or two up, again putting the empties JUST outside the brood frames.
Okay, here in the northwest there's a big blackberry flow and its a few weeks away and i have TONS of clover on my property about to burst. I expect with how fast they filled up the first brood box they should do fine. Cant wait to put supers on!
I would say all frames drawn and 6-8 filled.
Xerox,
As Iddee said, too soon. You only have 3 frames of brood. Putting supers on too early slows the bees down, you take bees that should be covering brood away to protect the outer areas that you added.
A couple of pointers.
Your hive is small and your bees are nice and calm. I would ditch the waders. It must bee cool up there now to bee able to wear them and that plastic top. Ever today if I tried that I would pass out from heat exhaustion in about 10 minutes. Try using a light, white long sleeve shirt and plain dungeons. I only wear a tea shirt and jeans and almost never get stung through the pants. Add tape around your ankles just in case you drop a frame or a bunch of bees at your feet. They will craw up into your pants and sting when they get crushed under your pants.
Before your open the hive, put 3 puffs of smoke in the entrance, wait 10 minutes then smoke again and wait 30 seconds. Right now your hive is small and calm but when they get larger they get a little more defensive.
When you open the top, open it away from you. Sometimes when you open the hive you scare the bees and they dart out and zap the first thing the see. If the opening is away from you they do this away from you and calm down when nothing is in their direct path.
Hope this helps.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: sawdstmakr on May 18, 2019, 09:09:25 AM
Xerox,
As Iddee said, too soon. You only have 3 frames of brood. Putting supers on too early slows the bees down, you take bees that should be covering brood away to protect the outer areas that you added.
A couple of pointers.
Your hive is small and your bees are nice and calm. I would ditch the waders. It must bee cool up there now to bee able to wear them and that plastic top. Ever today if I tried that I would pass out from heat exhaustion in about 10 minutes. Try using a light, white long sleeve shirt and plain dungeons. I only wear a tea shirt and jeans and almost never get stung through the pants. Add tape around your ankles just in case you drop a frame or a bunch of bees at your feet. They will craw up into your pants and sting when they get crushed under your pants.
Before your open the hive, put 3 puffs of smoke in the entrance, wait 10 minutes then smoke again and wait 30 seconds. Right now your hive is small and calm but when they get larger they get a little more defensive.
When you open the top, open it away from you. Sometimes when you open the hive you scare the bees and they dart out and zap the first thing the see. If the opening is away from you they do this away from you and calm down when nothing is in their direct path.
Hope this helps.
Jim Altmiller
Thanks Jim for the tips. The blue jacket I wear is ventilated and yes the waiters get a bit warm. I will wear Jean's next time.
Jim is right, much too early, the bees will spend a lot of energy keeping the extra volume warm.
Wait for the bees to tell you they need more room, hanging out the front, honey in the lid or on top of the frames.
Take the lid off and all the top of the frames are covered in bees, lots of bees in the lid.
You can take the super off if they haven't done much, if the bees have gone up a bit then just shake them out in front of the hive.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 18, 2019, 07:33:28 PM
Jim is right, much too early, the bees will spend a lot of energy keeping the extra volume warm.
Wait for the bees to tell you they need more room, hanging out the front, honey in the lid or on top of the frames.
Take the lid off and all the top of the frames are covered in bees, lots of bees in the lid.
You can take the super off if they haven't done much, if the bees have gone up a bit then just shake them out in front of the hive.
When I saw how much brood was in there I thought the queen would need more space to lay plus the population was about to burst. The weather has been pretty warm recently and I think there's enough bees to keep the whole place warm.
In an 8 frame box there are approx. 56,000 cells, if your queen lays 2000 eggs a day and they hatch in 21 days she only needs 42,000 cells.
That leaves 2 frames spare for honey etc, so does she need another box right now or ever.
All our 8 frame hives run with one brood box and as you see from the maths it is sufficient for bee production. Good queens will use 6-7 frames to lay in.
2 brood boxes is a waste of resources as it uses another box that could be used to harvest honey. Also if you are migratory you are carting a lot of extra weight.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 19, 2019, 07:40:23 AM
In an 8 frame box there are approx. 56,000 cells, if your queen lays 2000 eggs a day and they hatch in 21 days she only needs 42,000 cells.
That leaves 2 frames spare for honey etc, so does she need another box right now or ever.
All our 8 frame hives run with one brood box and as you see from the maths it is sufficient for bee production. Good queens will use 6-7 frames to lay in.
2 brood boxes is a waste of resources as it uses another box that could be used to harvest honey. Also if you are migratory you are carting a lot of extra weight.
Thanks for the info. i went in today to see how they're doing and they seem happy with the double brood boxes. My though with them is that they will be able to store enough nectar and pollen in both of them as long as develop brood so when winter comes i can take all the supers off and they'll spend winter in the double brood boxes.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 19, 2019, 07:40:23 AM
In an 8 frame box there are approx. 56,000 cells, if your queen lays 2000 eggs a day and they hatch in 21 days she only needs 42,000 cells.
I am not sure where you got those numbers.
https://www.beeculture.com/10-rules-part-2/
At any rate beekeeping is local. The brood box is used for more then just raising brood. In heavy flows the brood box becomes a temporary storage for nectar to be moved to the super later in the evening. I feel there is an advantage to have 3 or 4 mediums planned for the brood box knowing that the bees will use what they need at any given time.
Ace,
My thoughts exactly. Quite often I have 4 medium boxes with brood.
Jim Altmiller
I run all mediums with 4 of them dedicated for brood. This year I am trying to keep the brood confine to just 3, 8 frame mediums only because of the height issue. Usually I don't run and excluder but, I and am trying that also this year.
Quote from: billdean on May 20, 2019, 12:32:49 PM
This year I am trying to keep the brood confine to just 3, 8 frame mediums only because of the height issue. Usually I don't run and excluder but, I and am trying that also this year.
I definitely know of the height problem but using the excluder to manage the size of a hive can backfire. Although I myself did not do this I think it would be better to pull supers rather then put the brakes on the queen.
Quote from: Acebird on May 20, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: billdean on May 20, 2019, 12:32:49 PM
This year I am trying to keep the brood confine to just 3, 8 frame mediums only because of the height issue. Usually I don't run and excluder but, I and am trying that also this year.
I definitely know of the height problem but using the excluder to manage the size of a hive can backfire. Although I myself did not do this I think it would be better to pull supers rather then put the brakes on the queen.
I agree??..not all my hives I am doing this with. Just experimenting with a couple. I will be watching carefully.
Quote from: Acebird on May 20, 2019, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 19, 2019, 07:40:23 AM
In an 8 frame box there are approx. 56,000 cells, if your queen lays 2000 eggs a day and they hatch in 21 days she only needs 42,000 cells.
I am not sure where you got those numbers.
https://www.beeculture.com/10-rules-part-2/
At any rate beekeeping is local. The brood box is used for more then just raising brood. In heavy flows the brood box becomes a temporary storage for nectar to be moved to the super later in the evening. I feel there is an advantage to have 3 or 4 mediums planned for the brood box knowing that the bees will use what they need at any given time.
That's kinda where i'm at right now. The queen is laying like a champ but they're also bringing nectar in like a champ. They seem happy with the double brood boxes in my Sunday check so ill leave them with it.
The numbers are based on a full depth frame, 3,500 cells per side, 7,000 per frame X 8 frames.
Yes you can provide a self sufficient brood/ honey system by running multi brood boxes so long as they are stationary.
I must check my bees for smiles as I am unable to determine happiness in my bees!
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 20, 2019, 07:12:58 PM
The numbers are based on a full depth frame, 3,500 cells per side, 7,000 per frame X 8 frames.
Yes you can provide a self sufficient brood/ honey system by running multi brood boxes so long as they are stationary.
I must check my bees for smiles as I am unable to determine happiness in my bees!
The way i tell if bees are happy is if they aren't mad.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 20, 2019, 07:12:58 PM
Yes you can provide a self sufficient brood/ honey system by running multi brood boxes so long as they are stationary.
Yupp, there are differences between commercial operators and back yard beeks.
Acebird, you are right but there are some principals that overlap. Don't rush the bees, they will show you what they need.
Remember, bees spend a lot of time fixing up the decisions the beekeeper made for their benefit.
I agree.
You and I are only separated by Juan de Fuca Strait, Xerox and are hives are in similar stages of development so keep us posted. I?m going to crack my 2 hives on Wednesday for the first time in 10 days ( I put a formic strip on each of my 2 hives and have to wait. We?ll have good weather by tomorrow.
Quote from: Acebird on May 20, 2019, 10:41:31 PM
Quote from: Oldbeavo on May 20, 2019, 07:12:58 PM
Yes you can provide a self sufficient brood/ honey system by running multi brood boxes so long as they are stationary.
Yupp, there are differences between commercial operators and back yard beeks.
I'm sure there is a great difference