I?ve got two Russian hives running double deep brood boxes. Both with one super. I got both hives as nucs at the end of April. During our last full inspection two weeks ago we found the queen and eggs in both hives. Neither were working their supers yet. Today one hive was still doing great with tons of eggs and brood and they?ve started on the first super frame; while the other hive was calmer than usual with several queen cups on the bottom of multiple frames. Some capped. Also one capped supercedure on another frame. They?ve got frames of honey and pollen in the brood box so I don?t think stores are a problem. I don?t think we?ve hit the dearth here in Minnesota yet as clovers and other wildflowers are everywhere. Also We?ve got about an acre of clover and less of other wildflowers on the property. No pests or diseases from what I could tell. I didn?t think about it then, but think back, the population was down.
If they swarmed and the supercedure cell produces a new queen how can I help them recover and go in to winter strong? Take some brood from the other hive?
This is her two weeks ago
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190707/1a5a7d1ba1a1be7c0a3309e3adcf43cd.jpg)
And her possible replacement
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190707/38c3f4d19dc55498aa356935e200d35b.jpg)
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In your picture of the frame it looks like at least 3 capped queen cells with one busted open in the lower left, so I'd venture to say they swarmed. The one large queen cell in the middle-ish of the frame I'd leave on, destroy ALL other queen cells/cups you see and let nature take it's course. That big cell looks close to hatching.
If you have a good flow on, I would leave them bee. The best thing for good bee development is a good flow.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: Mamm7215 on July 07, 2019, 09:26:13 PM
In your picture of the frame it looks like at least 3 capped queen cells with one busted open in the lower left, so I'd venture to say they swarmed. The one large queen cell in the middle-ish of the frame I'd leave on, destroy ALL other queen cells/cups you see and let nature take it's course. That big cell looks close to hatching.
I removed all swarm cups and left the supercedure to hatch. If the last time I was in the hive was the 24th of June and there was no cup that I noticed, the soonest this queen could hatch would be this Wednesday the 10th? 16 days from the 25th. Is my math correct?
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Polenpants,
Just to get our terms correct, queen cups do not have eggs or larvae in them. The bees build them all the time, they mean nothing. They become a queen cell when an egg is laid in them.
For the future, leave at least 2 queen cells in the hive. One may not survive.
Your date is correct for queen cups that were empty the day of the inspection. That supercedure cell on the frame could have been five days old and made into a queen.
That means she is probably going to hatch today.
YOU NEED TO GIVE HER AT LEAST 2 WEEKS BEFORE YOU INSPECT THIS HIVE AGAIN.
She needs to get strong, make her maiden flight, start laying eggs and she needs a large brood area of wet larvae to prove she is a good queen before you inspect. Bees often kill a new queen due to inspections if she has not had a chance to prove her laying abilities.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: sawdstmakr on July 08, 2019, 10:44:43 AM
Polenpants,
That supercedure cell on the frame could have been five days old and made into a queen.
Jim Altmiller
If so, what does it look like on day 5? Does the cell look like all the others with larvae or is it starting to get elongated?
Asked another way, when does a larvae being treated as a new queen start to look different?
edited to add:Looking at a diagram, the author suggests that it may become distinguishable once it is capped. Day 8 to the trained eye and more apparent each day thereafter.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on July 08, 2019, 10:44:43 AM
Polenpants,
Just to get our terms correct, queen cups do not have eggs or larvae in them. The bees build them all the time, they mean nothing. They become a queen cell when an egg is laid in them.
For the future, leave at least 2 queen cells in the hive. One may not survive.
Your date is correct for queen cups that were empty the day of the inspection. That supercedure cell on the frame could have been five days old and made into a queen.
That means she is probably going to hatch today.
YOU NEED TO GIVE HER AT LEAST 2 WEEKS BEFORE YOU INSPECT THIS HIVE AGAIN.
She needs to get strong, make her maiden flight, start laying eggs and she needs a large brood area of wet larvae to prove she is a good queen before you inspect. Bees often kill a new queen due to inspections if she has not had a chance to prove her laying abilities.
Jim Altmiller
Thanks for the advice. I would?ve gone back in this weekend to see how it progressed.
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Quote from: sawdstmakr on July 08, 2019, 10:44:43 AM
For the future, leave at least 2 queen cells in the hive. One may not survive.
Why not leave them all and trust eons of evolution to do what is best - especially for non-commercial beeks?
You cut them because of the afterswarms that are produced by the virgins that emerge. A colony can loose so many adult bees that it' survival can be threatened.
Quote from: AR Beekeeper on July 08, 2019, 11:43:15 AM
You cut them because of the afterswarms that are produced by the virgins that emerge. A colony can loose so many adult bees that it' survival can be threatened.
If the queens are being raised for supercedure does the same approach apply as with swarming?
Quote from: incognito on July 08, 2019, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: AR Beekeeper on July 08, 2019, 11:43:15 AM
You cut them because of the afterswarms that are produced by the virgins that emerge. A colony can loose so many adult bees that it' survival can be threatened.
If the queens are being raised for supercedure does the same approach apply as with swarming?
No, the bees will not keep the queens locked in their cells nor will they keep the virgin queens apart. Only one virgin queen and the existing queen will survive.
Jim Altmiller
So I went back in this hive today.
If the queen cell was capped on July 7 inspection, I should?ve had a mated queen by now yes?
What I found was a honey bound hive. Between the two brood boxes there were probably 14 frames packed with honey, about half of them capped. No eggs and only very little capped brood. No laying workers, mites, beetles, or disease and a normal amount of drone. Population looked ok, especially when bearding yesterday when the heat index was 117.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190721/ef8af718878815c859bbe3b679550607.jpg)
The supercedure cell was mostly torn down and I did not find a queen or eggs. They?re not touching the super because they?re filling the brood box. I took two frames of eggs and larva with some pollen from my strong hive and put them in the bottom brood box.
Is it worth it at this point in the summer in Minnesota to re-queen with a mated queen if they don?t make another out of the eggs I gave them? Or harvest and get a new nuc next year?
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Pollenpants,
If the cell was capped on July 7, she could bee 9 days old from being laid, your queen may have hatched on July 16. That means she is only 6 days old. They often take 11 days from hatching to start laying. The bees still have time to clear the brood area before she starts laying. I strongly recommend that you do not disturb this hive for at least 10 days.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: sawdstmakr on July 22, 2019, 01:26:26 PM
Pollenpants,
If the cell was capped on July 7, she could bee 9 days old from being laid, your queen may have hatched on July 16. That means she is only 6 days old. They often take 11 days from hatching to start laying. The bees still have time to clear the brood area before she starts laying. I strongly recommend that you do not disturb this hive for at least 10 days.
Jim Altmiller
Thanks for your advice. I?ll give em a couple more weeks and hope I didn?t doom the colony yesterday.
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My hive is queen right again!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190805/da6280b14a30ec894fb34acf9c98f4b9.jpg)
One question; do I need to worry about seeing one hive beetle? I killed and disposed of it.
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Quote from: pollenpants on August 04, 2019, 11:11:47 PM
My hive is queen right again!
One question; do I need to worry about seeing one hive beetle? I killed and disposed of it.
Finding eggs and larva is always a good thing. :happy:
Finding one hive beetle is nothing, finding dozens is another story.