We now have 4 hives that I believe are queenless out of 11 hives. Could OAV cause this? Too much? Too hot? I?m using the provap110. We are on our 3rd week. Never seemed to have an issue in the past but this is the first time I?ve used the Provap.
In my experience, have never lost a queen to OAV. Have lost a few to formic.
What is the history of the queens in the 11 hives? How old are/were they? How is their overall performance? There may be some factor other than OAV. Age, disease, ...
I believe OAV does cause some queen loss. I also suspect OAV affects the early egg development at times.
I have actually seen workers attacking their queen at the entrance after a treatment.
I suspect the queens may be in the wrong place at the wrong time during a treatment and may be covered too much with residue or burnt. I have changed my treatment routine so that I have a lot of back up queens in the event of loss. I rely on a late summer brood break and fall OAV for hives I pull the queens from, for hives I couldn't find the queen I hope for the best.
Provap reps will disagree with me but I know what I have experienced. I use the 110 and spoon.
Quote from: jvalentour on July 19, 2019, 09:20:23 AM
I believe OAV does cause some queen loss. I also suspect OAV affects the early egg development at times.
I have actually seen workers attacking their queen at the entrance after a treatment.
I suspect the queens may be in the wrong place at the wrong time during a treatment and may be covered too much with residue or burnt. I have changed my treatment routine so that I have a lot of back up queens in the event of loss. I rely on a late summer brood break and fall OAV for hives I pull the queens from, for hives I couldn't find the queen I hope for the best.
Provap reps will disagree with me but I know what I have experienced. I use the 110 and spoon.
I have read, studied, watched videos, closely watched the forum conversations, researched google, read scientific studies from US government studies, as well as university studies, along with studies from all over the world, including Australia, Germany, etc. and this is the first that I have heard of this. Jvalentour, You have seen what you have seen. I have only been using OA for my first year. Has others here experienced this?
Aroc, I use provap 110 for 2 years and I have not detected any problems. I have 2 queens that are both 3.5 years old and each has experienced at least two treatments a year. I have treated many hives with Oxalic Acid Vapor: mine own as well as friends without problem. Prior to 2018 I used Varrox, during 2018 I purchased a provap 110.
I treat via a small drilled vent at bottom back of hive where there is hardly a chance of a queen present and use 1 gram per 10 frame deep, 2 grams per double.
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on July 19, 2019, 02:18:34 AM
In my experience, have never lost a queen to OAV. Have lost a few to formic.
What is the history of the queens in the 11 hives? How old are/were they? How is their overall performance? There may be some factor other than OAV. Age, disease, ...
The queens are all under two years old. The overall health of these colonies appears really good. Two of them have started the process of re-queening, two of them have not. I have a suspicion that a queen is in one of them and has simply shut down.
Aroc, do you have good fields of knapweed? That plant produces some very fine: extremely light colored, mild, tasty, delicious, delicate, flavor-able, honey. I realize commercial beeks transit hives to Montana just for the knapweed. The honey is that good.
Quote from: van from Arkansas on July 19, 2019, 07:22:57 PM
Aroc, do you have good fields of knapweed? That plant produces some very fine: extremely light colored, mild, tasty, delicious, delicate, flavor-able, honey. I realize commercial beeks transit hives to Montana just for the knapweed. The honey is that good.
Interesting enough we have a field loaded with knapweed just 3/4 mile down the road. Each year I pray they don?t attempt to get rid of it.
@Aroc
Beesource had a thread from March 11, 2019 called ?Eggs Eggs Eggs? and it was proposed that the OAV got in the honey and was killing larvae. Queen kept laying fresh eggs not developing there. Just a thought, perhaps useful info.
Quote from: FloridaGardener on July 19, 2019, 10:49:49 PM
@Aroc
Beesource had a thread from March 11, 2019 called ?Eggs Eggs Eggs? and it was proposed that the OAV got in the honey and was killing larvae. Queen kept laying fresh eggs not developing there. Just a thought, perhaps useful info.
Quote from: jvalentour on July 19, 2019, 09:20:23 AM
I believe OAV does cause some queen loss. I also suspect OAV affects the early egg development at times.
I have actually seen workers attacking their queen at the entrance after a treatment.
I suspect the queens may be in the wrong place at the wrong time during a treatment and may be covered too much with residue or burnt. I have changed my treatment routine so that I have a lot of back up queens in the event of loss. I rely on a late summer brood break and fall OAV for hives I pull the queens from, for hives I couldn't find the queen I hope for the best.
Provap reps will disagree with me but I know what I have experienced. I use the 110 and spoon.
I have replied to jvalentours earlier post here. Telling him of the time I have spent studying OAV and coming to trust that it is good and safe for bees and mankind alike. He has always given good information, I know that he seen what he saw. Maybe there is some other explanation? This whole thing about Oxalic is now puzzling to me. Florida, Do you use OAV acid? Have you experienced what the folks on the other forum may have said about this subject? (I did not read as I'm not a member there). I have come to trust OAV and am a little troubled about these reports. I am not a member of the other forum but I thank you for posting this questioning information and your input.
Phillip
I have noticed if a hive had been overdosed with OAV, there is some resultant larvae damage and kill. It ends up looking much like a chalk brood breakout and the dead larvae gets tossed out off the landing board.
Not yet ever had a queen problem from OAV .. yet.
Phillip,
My apologies for causing you concern.
I endorse the use of OAV and will continue to use it in the future.
I was sharing my observations and adjustments with OAV application.
Depending on the year I run 20-60 hives. I perform all of the work alone, so, I streamline my operation as much as I can. Hive loss is something I plan on with OAV use and therefor, make prior arrangements.
I have corresponded directly with the OxaVap rep via phone and email. I have a pretty good idea of how to use the product. The benefits of the OAV outweigh the negatives by far. But there can be queen and egg loss. IMO if you are set up to use it do so. Follow directions as closely as you can as humidity affects the dosage. Be sure to wear recommended protection.
I would like to point out, from another's comment, you have no idea where your queen is when you apply OAV.
Quote from: jvalentour on July 20, 2019, 12:24:04 PM
Phillip,
My apologies for causing you concern.
I endorse the use of OAV and will continue to use it in the future.
I was sharing my observations and adjustments with OAV application.
Depending on the year I run 20-60 hives. I perform all of the work alone, so, I streamline my operation as much as I can. Hive loss is something I plan on with OAV use and therefor, make prior arrangements.
I have corresponded directly with the OxaVap rep via phone and email. I have a pretty good idea of how to use the product. The benefits of the OAV outweigh the negatives by far. But there can be queen and egg loss. IMO if you are set up to use it do so. Follow directions as closely as you can as humidity affects the dosage. Be sure to wear recommended protection.
I would like to point out, from another's comment, you have no idea where your queen is when you apply OAV.
Thanks jvalentour, You owe me no apology, I have faith in your statements as I said before, you have always given me good information. I thank you for being more clear. Yes, following the instructions is good advise. Thanks again for you valuable input.
Philllip