So if you recall from my previous post, at the end of June I homed a swarm into a hive (10-frame deep) in a very messy way. In the process I removed two frames from my only other hive, one with honey and one with brood, including a capped queen cell, to help the swarm stay put. I then left for almost a month. I am now back and here is the situation. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Hive 1 (my original hive -- 2 deep, 1 medium, 10 frame) seems fine. I saw open brood (larvae) but not a lot. The two frames I added to replace the ones I removed had not been drawn, they are basically as I left them. Similarly the honey super that I put at the end of May is completely empty.
Hive 2 (the swarm, 1 deep 10 frame box) seems very small. There are 2/3 frames of bees only. I saw open brood (larvae) but here too not a lot and in a somewhat scattered pattern. I think I saw a queen laying (she was going around sticking her rear end in cells). The other frames have not been drawn. I removed one and put a frame feeder with sugar syrup but by the end of the day the bees had not noticed it.
Traffic on both hives is pretty low, and I didn't see any pollen coming in.
For a while it was very dry. But the last week or so we have had rain. I don't think we are in a dearth as I have tons of flowers in my garden (including plenty of clover in the lawn, and a whole bed of buckwheat in the vegetable garden which I planted for cover crop before I plant seeds for fall vegetables). The bumble bees are going crazy on all these flowers.
Thanks for any advice you can give this newbeek
I think that queen cell was a supersedure cell. The bees do this to replace a failing queen. Did you find the queen in hive 1 to make sure you didn't put her in the swarm hive? Is there anymore cells in Hive 1? Is there eggs in either of the hives? Are there multiple eggs per cell? Is there a queen in both hives?
I didn't see any eggs, in either hive, but I didn't open all the frames in Hive 1 once I found open brood.
I think I saw the queen in Hive 2, but I did not locate her in Hive 1 (again I didn't look at all the frames).
I did not see any queen cells in Hive 1 (at least on the frames that I looked at)
Rgennaro,
One thing that you did not mention but is really important is capped brood. Was the capped brood really scares or did it look good.
I ask this because I am seeing a lot of hives, including mine that have Snot brood. The brood are getting sick before they are capped and they are being removed from the hive. Very few larvae make it to hatch day.
Check the color of the wet larvae. They should be bright white, not tan or brown.
Let us know what you find.
Jim Altmiller
The larva looked fine. Just not a lot of it. I?ll check again. How soon can I go back in? I want to look better for eggs.
I am wondering if hive 2 just needs time? Maybe I killed the queen that swarmed during my messy transfer and they are now with the one that hatched from the queen cell? Taking into account mating and all she should have started laying only recently which explains the low numbers in hive 2?
Quote from: rgennaro on July 22, 2019, 01:53:27 PM
The larva looked fine. Just not a lot of it. I?ll check again. How soon can I go back in? I want to look better for eggs.
I am wondering if hive 2 just needs time? Maybe I killed the queen that swarmed during my messy transfer and they are now with the one that hatched from the queen cell? Taking into account mating and all she should have started laying only recently which explains the low numbers in hive 2?
Hives only swarm with mated queens so she is mated if she is in there. What you explained is possible. The queen that hatched could've been killed as well or its just a poorly mated queen. You can go in today and look for eggs. If there are then there is or was a queen within the last three days. If it is spotty then she is poorly mated and might need to go bye bye. Also look in Hive 1 for the queen or eggs.
Thanks. It's raining now so I'll wait for the weather to settle.
So assume I want to requeen the hive the process would be to find the current queen and remove it and replace it with a new queen (put the queen in the hive in a cage and give them time to accept her)? I'll look it up in my books and online, but I thought I'd ask.
I would repack your bees down to a hive that they can keep warm, 2-3 frames of bees in a 10 frame could be put into a 4 or 5 frame nuc until they grow a bit.
If they don't use the super take it off for now till they catch up.
Do they have any stored pollen? or are they using it as quick as they find it. Or are they short and so not breeding enough.
Some times hives are poor due to the queen or disease, but lots of times it is due to lack of resources that stop the hive growing.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on July 23, 2019, 06:56:41 PM
I would repack your bees down to a hive that they can keep warm, 2-3 frames of bees in a 10 frame could be put into a 4 or 5 frame nuc until they grow a bit.
If they don't use the super take it off for now till they catch up.
Do they have any stored pollen? or are they using it as quick as they find it. Or are they short and so not breeding enough.
Some times hives are poor due to the queen or disease, but lots of times it is due to lack of resources that stop the hive growing.
I agree. Are you in a dearth? Are stores low? If they are you should feed 1:1 sugar syrup.
I don?t have a nuc box ... I wish I had put them in a medium at least, but too late for that. Maybe I?ll order or buy one.
I put a bag of 1:1 syrup yesterday but they are not really touching it. I saw enough nectar on the frames and some pollen too but not a lot. Yesterday I saw pollen coming in. Should I try feeding them pollen patties as well?
Quote from: rgennaro on July 24, 2019, 09:43:20 AM
I don?t have a nuc box ... I wish I had put them in a medium at least, but too late for that. Maybe I?ll order or buy one.
I put a bag of 1:1 syrup yesterday but they are not really touching it. I saw enough nectar on the frames and some pollen too but not a lot. Yesterday I saw pollen coming in. Should I try feeding them pollen patties as well?
If there's pollen in there you shouldn't have to feed. If they arent taking syrup then they are taking nectar in. They prefer nectar over syrup. They probably have failing queens in this case.
just to be clear, I am only referring to Hive 2 (the swarm). I haven't opened Hive 1 again since the first inspection. I'll give them a little more time.
Today there were a few bees on the bag feeder.
I called the people who sold me the nuc last year and they said that we are in a bit of a dearth. They will be here on Sunday for the farmers market and I hope to get them to come have a look. Hopefully they can sell me a queen as well.
Quote from: rgennaro on July 24, 2019, 03:46:48 PM
just to be clear, I am only referring to Hive 2 (the swarm). I haven't opened Hive 1 again since the first inspection. I'll give them a little more time.
Today there were a few bees on the bag feeder.
I called the people who sold me the nuc last year and they said that we are in a bit of a dearth. They will be here on Sunday for the farmers market and I hope to get them to come have a look. Hopefully they can sell me a queen as well.
That sounds like a good idea. I'm pretty sure you just have failing queens and will have to order a few new ones.
So the beeks who sold me the bees could not come over today and I ended up doing the inspections on my own.
First the good news. hive 1 is doing great. The brood was perfectly organized in full rows, and there was quite a bit of it. There was nectar honey and pollen. They are still not working on the honey super so I took it off, they have plenty of space to fill in the two deeps.
Now for hive 2: there is brood but it?s not a lot and scattered all over the place. It seems like they are raising a new queen. There was a queen cell open with a big larva in it. Did not see the queen but I am terrible at recognizing it. I don?t think they are in a dearth, I saw pollen coming in and the other hive is doing fine.
Should I let them raise a new queen? Or should I get a new queen. I can get the queen on Tuesday.
The problem is that I can?t find the old queen assuming she is there ...
Quote from: rgennaro on July 28, 2019, 08:07:10 PM
So the beeks who sold me the bees could not come over today and I ended up doing the inspections on my own.
First the good news. hive 1 is doing great. The brood was perfectly organized in full rows, and there was quite a bit of it. There was nectar honey and pollen. They are still not working on the honey super so I took it off, they have plenty of space to fill in the two deeps.
Now for hive 2: there is brood but it?s not a lot and scattered all over the place. It seems like they are raising a new queen. There was a queen cell open with a big larva in it. Did not see the queen but I am terrible at recognizing it. I don?t think they are in a dearth, I saw pollen coming in and the other hive is doing fine.
Should I let them raise a new queen? Or should I get a new queen. I can get the queen on Tuesday.
The problem is that I can?t find the old queen assuming she is there ...
Let them raise the new queen. They will kill the old one and hopefully the new one is better. It is late in the season so make sure they have lots of food for the winter.
The timing is exactly what I am most concerned about. If I weigh the pros and cons of both approaches I can't decide what to do
-- leave them bee: it will be at least 2 weeks before this new queen starts laying, assuming she survives and all.
-- requeen: i would have to remove the queen cell and kill the old queen. Assuming I do the first but not the second (because I can't find the old queen), the new queen ends up dead too. On the other hand if everything goes well I would have a laying queen in 3 days.
so I decided to requeen. A mated queen is coming in today. Yesterday I removed the queen cell (made me feel a bit sad), and looked for the current queen but still couldn't find it. I saw no eggs. I'll do another check before I install the cage. There is really not a lot of bees so either she is not there, or I am truly incompetent. I am considering knocking on my beek neighbor door and see if they are willing to come have a look.
Wish me and the hive luck.