Do it yourself,
Need a inexpensive vaporizer? Do it yourself.
https://youtu.be/oxJqzRT1Gdk
Keep in mind, per a study at the University of Florida, it takes 4 grams of oxalic acid to treat a deep or larger hive.
Jim Altmiller
Jim, can we have a link to that study?
90.00 divided by your number of hives, divided again by the number of treatments. Includes the acid. No hassle or parts buying. What do you consider cheap.
https://beezneedz.com/product/oxalic-acid-vaporizer/
Quote from: iddee on August 19, 2019, 06:14:25 PM
90.00 divided by your number of hives, divided again by the number of treatments. Includes the acid. No hassle or parts buying. What do you consider cheap.
https://beezneedz.com/product/oxalic-acid-vaporizer/
15 dollars is what the fellow called the parts total. But, if a person does not want to fool with the hassle of gathering and putting the parts together this would not be the way to go. Also this thing is suppose to recycle quickly saving time applying oxalic, similar to the pro-vaporizer, this could certainly be another option? I am not pushing the idea but for a person, on-a limited budget, which may not want to or be finically able to pay $499.00 for the pro vaporizer this may be another option. I thought it was very interesting so I posted it.
Phillip
Iddee,
We had a speaker who did the study give a talk at one of the clubs. He provided the info. I will see if he published his results.
Jim Altmiller
Whatsamillimeter? Just kidding.
I like your can do spirit.
But seriously, get a better mask. OA is bad stuff.
Iddee,
The speakers name is Cameron Jack. I checked the IFAS site. He published 4 articles but this is not one of them. He may have been working on this project with someone else that published it but I have not found it yet.
Jim Altmiller
Dadant recommends one gram per brood chamber. But I am by no means disputing your information Jim. I am happy that research is steady progressing and newer and better approaches and findings are being made constantly in our world of bees. I would like to rad these findings also if you can find them. Thanks,
Phillip
https://www.dadant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/2011/09/Dadant_OxalicAcidVaporizer_QandA.pdf
Quote from: Ben Framed on August 20, 2019, 10:12:06 AM
Dadant recommends one gram per brood chamber. But I am by any means disputing your information Jim. I am happy that research is steady progressing and newer and better approaches and findings are being made constantly in our world of bees. I would like to rad these findings also if you can find them. Thanks,
Phillip
https://www.dadant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/2011/09/Dadant_OxalicAcidVaporizer_QandA.pdf
The study that Cameron Jack was reporting on found that 1 ounce was not effective at all. It wasn?t until they used 4 ounces that it was killing the mites.
Jim Altmiller
My provap 110 comes with a measuring spoon than at level measures 2 grams of pure Oxalic acid, which is different from Oxalic acid hydrate. Jim, I believe the study you refer to was Oxalic acid dihydrate in which case, yes Sir, I would use 4 grams because the hydrated form is approx, half water. However pure Oxalic acid, I use 2 grams per 2 deep hive. Equates to 1 gram per deep of pure Oxalic acid.
Amazon mostly sells Oxalic acid dihydrate so note the label carefully. I see text to use a respirator which is good advice.
Van
Thanks men.
Phillip
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 20, 2019, 01:27:55 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on August 20, 2019, 10:12:06 AM
Dadant recommends one gram per brood chamber. But I am by any means disputing your information Jim. I am happy that research is steady progressing and newer and better approaches and findings are being made constantly in our world of bees. I would like to rad these findings also if you can find them. Thanks,
Phillip
https://www.dadant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/2011/09/Dadant_OxalicAcidVaporizer_QandA.pdf
The study that Cameron Jack was reporting on found that 1 ounce was not effective at all. It wasn?t until they used 4 ounces that it was killing the mites.
Jim Altmiller
Misprint correction, what I meant I am NOT by any means disputing your information. Sorry Jim.
Perhaps Mr Van is correct and also perhaps there are new findings. I really would like to know . The reason that I am asking, I remember the experiment that Beeboy01 did last year and the trouble he had getting rid of the mites in the one hive. This may be an option on the heavily infested hives? This is very interesting to me Jim and Mr Van. Thank you both again.
Phillip
If you want knowledge about Oxalic acid and varroa, the article below will enlighten you.
Journal of Apicultural Research: volume 54, Issue 2, 2015
Towards integrated control of Varroa: 2) comparing application methods and doses of Oxalic acid on the mortality of phoretic Varroa destructor mites and their honey bee hosts.
The above is an 20 plus page research article studying Oxalic acid pertaining to Varroa over an 18 month period. The single best study I have experienced. These researchers thought of every conceivable detail, down to figuring out to account for natural honeybee death and building a trap to compensate for natural death so as to account precise results. Simply stated, THE BEST ARTICLE my eyes have experienced, so detailed, so through.
I am not saying treat your bees, that is your decision. I am saying here is info if you please.
Cheers
Van
Cameron was referring to the oxalic acid power that comes in a plastic bag or a hard plastic container with a snap on lid.
Jim Altmiller
Yes, Jim I understand. Oxalic acid dihydrate is white powder just like Oxalic acid. I can?t tell the difference by looking.
[attachment=0][/attachment]
[attachment=0][/attachment]
Pure Oxalic acid, not dehydrate.
I bought my Oxalic Acid on line form a company called Florida Laboratories, Inc. It came in a sturdy, reinforced, silver ziplock bag. The description says Oxalic Acid keep in a cool place. 99.6% Purity. Jim I found a link of a study done by your guys. It is a very, very in-depth article. Very impressive. I tried to copy the link but for some reason I was unsuccessful. I have not found the specific information that we are discussing, but this study covered almost any problem imaginable, from mites to beetles to nosema ETC ! It will take some time and patience on my part to study it all, I will have to do it a few paragraphs at a sitting. I am pleased that you mentioned this study.
Thanks,
Phillip
Mr Van, my oxalic looks like your second picture.
Quote from: Ben Framed on August 20, 2019, 09:02:31 PM
I bought my Oxalic Acid on line form a company called Florida Laboratories, Inc. It came in a sturdy, reinforced, silver ziplock bag. The description says Oxalic Acid keep in a cool place. 99.6% Purity. Jim I found a link of a study done by your guys. It is a very, very in-depth article. Very impressive. I tried to copy the link but for some reason I was unsuccessful. I have not found the specific information that we are discussing, but this study covered almost any problem imaginable, from mites to beetles to nosema ETC ! It will take some time and patience on my part to study it all, I will have to do it a few paragraphs at a sitting. I am pleased that you mentioned this study.
Thanks,
Phillip
Phil, can you post the link, but if your still not able to post, then provide the search criteria so I can google, locate and read the article. Sounds like a good informative article.
Blessings
Van
Mr Van, Google the following. It should pull for you with this information. If not, let me know and I will try to find another way.
Phillip
I googled this
Cameron Jack Oxalic acid dihydrate study
And this is what I found.
Proceedings of the 2017 American Bee Research Conference - Semantic Scholar
The efficacy of artificial brood interruption and oxalic acid treatments in controlling the ... Cameron Jack and Jamie Ellis. ...... ing carvacrol , thymol, α-pinene, β-pinene, sabinene hydrate, α-ter-.
I think one of the most important things I discovered when treating that heavily infested hive last year was that the time between treatments was as important if not more so than the total amount of oxalic acid used per treatment. Longer periods between treatments doesn't effectively expose the mites that are moving between the brood cells. The life cycle of the mite only has the non phoric females exposed for about twenty to thirty hours when they move to a new host cell. Oxalic acid has a life of only two or three days once vaporized in a hive and the recommended five to seven day spacing between treatments leaves a gap in the protection. Don't know if there are any official studies to prove this but it's what I think my experiment showed.
Buy the way, the hive is still going strong and was treated back in May. I'm scheduling a series of treatments at the end of September for all my hives and will try to get a daily mite count on all of them.
We had a very good discussion going on here. The following is what Kamon Reynolds has found with the overloaded, experimental hive he has been watching closely for quiet sometime . I do not think that he was using 4 grams to treat a deep or larger hive.. Friends all this information, (this topic, and other topics here along with videos), are all tying together in an indirect, independent way, with this topic, Kamons findings, along with the topic, OAV too hot. I sincerely believe OAV is effective but MUST BE USED PROPERLY and not all applicators are created equal, though some are more (convenient), to use. I am sure to take more flack for being bold enough to post these statements, but as your friend, I feel it is necessary. Don?t be to rough on me. Lol
Phillip
https://youtu.be/Ab19fpIwI84
What is the point? The point is I would like to see a survey done on one totally infested hive. Carefully on a one on one treatment plan. A hive such as Kamon Reynolds experimental hive. Or Beenoy01 hive. This is what I purpose. First treatment. Use the quick to use band heater type applicator such. Do a mite drop count. Wait four days, use the old fashion wand type applicator, such as iddee posted above. Do another mite count. See what happens, check the results. Continue this process via rotation, keeping data, until mites are under control. Compare data and ........
Phillip
Please don't throw tomatoes at me but, a DSBB is the easiest way to use OAV. from the rear, and all areas of the hive can be vaporized.
LOL no tomatoes from me Paus. It's not the way of administration I am proposing, it's the effectiveness of the applicator I am questioning. I theorize the old wand type applicator is the more effective tool. I have not read where folks using these were losing hives as folks which now use band-heater type applicators are losing hives. Perhaps this is why Florida researchers say use 4 grams to treat a deep or larger hive in order to make up the difference in the band heater type? Perhaps OAV is more effective when administered the old way? Not getting too hot to fast? Woo wee I better start ducking because the tomatoes 🍅 are sure to be flying my way! Lol
Phillip Hall
Ounces and grams are getting confused, there is a lot of difference: 31 grams to Troy ounce, that is a huge difference. 31X
30 gram to ounce [American] 30X
You are right Mr. Van. Sorry for the Printed mistake I suppose I was so focused on the problems trying to find the cure that I totally overlooked the obvious LOL I will go back and edit the oz part. Thank you Sir.
Phillip
I skipped all the electrical hassle and made a "crack-pipe" vaporizer from 1/2" copper pipe reduced to 5/16" tubing into a hole in the back of the hive body. A map torch provides heat for sublimation.
My success has been well on par with my commercial vaporizer, but with a heck of a lot less effort and trouble.
Total cost? About $4 if you already have a torch and basic plumbing tools.
Coming in late on this. I always heard 1/4 tsp = 1 gram per deep. My spoon with the Varrox is gram. So anyone ever find the information on the 4 gram per deep study. That is a significant difference. I think I will email Ellis and see if he has any comment.
Ellis was in on it too. Cameron Jack as Jim suggested is the man with the plan, (so to speak) . Perhaps you can contact him as well?
Phillip Hall
Quote from: Ben Framed on April 11, 2020, 01:33:42 AM
Ellis was in on it too. Cameron Jack as Jim suggested is the man with the plan, (so to speak) . Perhaps you can contact him as well?
Phillip Hall
Yea I knew Ellis would have to be I. On it if it was at Florida.
Quote from: sc-bee on April 11, 2020, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on April 11, 2020, 01:33:42 AM
Ellis was in on it too. Cameron Jack as Jim suggested is the man with the plan, (so to speak) . Perhaps you can contact him as well?
Phillip Hall
Yea I knew Ellis would have to be I. On it if it was at Florida.
You are right. The reason I suggested Cameron Jack is because he is the one that came to Jims Meeting. I am sure Mr Ellis should have the same information as they studied this together. Thanks SC.
Phillip
I sent the email to U of F and got reply from Cameron Jack. I have followed up with some additional questions and ask if I could share his reply. Waiting on hos reply about sharing. I was not encouraged by his reply, it was defintely not what I wanted to hear, Seems they want some other verification before moving forward.
Quote from: sc-bee on April 14, 2020, 09:15:42 AM
I sent the email to U of F and got reply from Cameron Jack. I have followed up with some additional questions and ask if I could share his reply. Waiting on hos reply about sharing. I was not encouraged by his reply, it was defintely not what I wanted to hear, Seems they want some other verification before moving forward.
Good job SC I am encouraging you Sir and thanking you for your persistence for the good of all.
Phillip