Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

My hive in Jamestown North Carolina, which I posted about in my "Long Live The Queen" thread was treated a day prior to my hive in Kernersville. They have absconded. And I didn't see it happen.  :sad:

There was nothing left to do but dismantle the hive and give one of the brood boxes and the super to my Kernersville hive, that I posted about in the "Normal after mite treatment?" thread. I removed the Mite Away strips before they decided to do abscond, themselves. I brushed them off where they were bearding from, and they all marched back inside the hive. I'll just treat them with oxalic vapor when things calm down.

This is my hive now:
(https://i.imgur.com/KOx9Fj9.jpg)
Andre extra box of stores I'm letting them rob:
(https://i.imgur.com/HwpgPpS.jpg)

Sorry to hear, spafmagic. Misery loves company--I too had my first abscond this week.  In my case, it looks like water intrusion was likely the instigator.  After I reset all of the hives (i.e. removed the ratchet straps etc) after a recent hurricane, it looks like I had bumped out the shims that propped it forward and so it had a backwards tilt and the entire bottom board was flooded by recent rain...I'm guessing they didn't like it and can't blame them.  In a twist of fate, however, I caught them in a swarm trap I had about 100 ft. from the hive.  Sorry you have lost yours though.  Almost all of my bottom boards are screened however this one was one of two that are solid.  I hope the Kernersville hive stays strong...and stays put!

@JurassicApiary - Thanks man. =^_^=
On the bright side, this Hive has received a crap ton of bee bread and some honey.

Always look for the silver lining. :). Is the second hive strong enough to split?


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I would say they have the numbers to be split, but... I think they'll be fine with two extra boxes.

I use Oxalic acid vapor, never had a problem.  Every year I hear of problems, with Formic acid based treatments.  Sorry you lost the bees in the one hive.

Question: was the temperature above 90F with the hive that absconded?

Cheers

I can't say that it was over 90. It's been raining in mid eighties over here for a week straight.

Video of the hive, and the robbing. =^_^=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHNi7uhFBJY&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k3JxwSKhfQ&feature=youtu.be

Made a mistake in quoting myself instead of modifying my post.

Magic,
Mite away II is very temperature sensitive when it comes to putting it in the hive. I bought it years ago to use but there are very few times when I could use it. On top of that you cannot use it in a hive with metal screen top and bottom boards.  It makes big holes in the metal.
Jim Altmiller

I like the audio in video:  honey bees buzzing and a beautiful bird singing.  I could go to sleep with that nature sound.  Thanks for posting.

I'm a newbee but I treet with oa saturated shop towels. there supposed to last a month . i treat aug sept oct . by the time they have torn it up and carried off the pieces every part of the hive has been treated on a continuing basis .the receipe is on this website.
sorry to hear of your loss.

Quote from: spafmagic on August 16, 2020, 05:26:07 PM
My hive in Jamestown North Carolina, which I posted about in my "Long Live The Queen" thread was treated a day prior to my hive in Kernersville. They have absconded. And I didn't see it happen.  :sad:

There was nothing left to do but dismantled the hive and give one of the brood boxes and the super to my Kernersville hive, that I posted about in the "Normal after mite treatment?" thread. I removed the Mite Away strips before they decided to do abscond, themselves. I brushed them off where they were bearding from, and they all marched back inside the hive. I'll just treat them with oxalic vapor when things calm down.

This is my hive now:
(https://i.imgur.com/KOx9Fj9.jpg)
Andre extra box of stores I'm letting them rob:
(https://i.imgur.com/HwpgPpS.jpg)

sorry to hear this

Question about formic.
Does humidity and heat index affect said temp rating? I?m not far from Him and I know that just because the thermometer says 84, doesn?t mean it pleasant. Reality is the heat index could still be around 100.


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I honestly couldn't say if heat index is a factor.

I for one, know little about Mite Away. I have studied formic flash but I have not tried it. A fellow from Germany taught me while using formic flash, the art is mathematics. For example He ( and others) tell me the treating range is 10 to 30 Celsius.  I have not tried it as of yet, but in the south where I live, humidity is usually VERY HIGH. I would not follow that recommend high temp of 30c /86f. Just my opinion.

Formic, from what I understand is a tricky avenue, but when mastered, (also from what I understand) is an excellent organic avenue. Ridding the colony of mites both non-capped as well as caped brood.

As far as mathematics I will give an example of what I was taught. For formic flash formula; 40, minus temperature equals ml of 65 percent formic added per box. Translated. 22C / 76f: 40 - 22 equals 18. 18ml will be the amount of 65 percent formic set for each box (that day). The entrance must be reduced and no open screen bottom boards.

I am not recommending something I have not tried or am doing MYSELF and have proved by my very own example, PROVED to be SUCCESSFUl. Be it formic, or even treatment free, or anything else that I have not proven personally.

I, as Mr Van, use the organic Oxalic and can, from experience, recommend it. Even oxalic has to be used correctly and timing is a VERY important factor because it WILL NOT effect mites protected inside of capped brood.

I am thinking this is where many OA users miss the boat. They treat, say in August. (one or two times). Then again in December (as a timeline accepted by many experts in America, month wise), yet still may lose hives to varroa destructor. Leaving them scratching there head in wondering, (Why did this hive die of mites? I treated!)  For this very reason some professional beekeepers use Apivar strips in August. No danger as formic of with risk of abscond yet effective. And no troubles associated with formic such as Queen loss.

Food for thought.

Quote from: .30WCF on August 16, 2020, 11:00:02 PM
Does humidity and heat index affect said temp rating?

I would say no.  The bees control the environment inside the brood area regardless of what is going on outside the hive (within reason).

Quote from: Acebird on August 19, 2020, 09:19:19 AM

Quote from: .30WCF on August 16, 2020, 11:00:02 PM
Does humidity and heat index affect said temp rating?

I would say no.  The bees control the environment inside the brood area regardless of what is going on outside the hive (within reason).

Ace I am not disputing you, I do not know details of Mite Away research or if they took humidity into consideration?  I will give you and example of why I would not treat here in my area of the south and a common humidity rating many days here in the summer months, at 30 Celcius / 86f  'Because I do not know', I would rather be safe than sorry. Mite Away may have very well considered humidity into consideration? Here's the example off humidity you may commonly see in my area.

Air Temperature   
86

Fahrenheit ?F
Relative Humidity   
98
Calculate

Heat Index Temperature: 110?F (44?C or 317K)

Danger: at this condition, heat cramps and heat exhaustion are likely; heat stroke is probable with continued activity.

Quote from: .30WCF on August 16, 2020, 11:00:02 PM
Question about formic.
Does humidity and heat index affect said temp rating? I?m not far from Him and I know that just because the thermometer says 84, doesn?t mean it pleasant. Reality is the heat index could still be around 100.


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I?ll try to answer and support my answer.  Heat index and humidity does not play into the Formic acid gas equations.  My reasoning is simple, gas Law:  PV=nRT. In plain English:

P, pressure times
V, volume
equals:
n, number of moles
times R, gas constant
times T, temperature in kelvin which is just another temp scale just as Fahrenheit.

Humidity and heat index if not part of the gas law therefore is no effect.  The gas law further tells us any mole of gas is 22.4 litters but is affected by temp, pressure and amount of the gas.

Been a long time since I studied the gas law so critique is always welcome.

I hope this answers your question.

Quote from: van from Arkansas on August 19, 2020, 01:35:46 PM

Quote from: .30WCF on August 16, 2020, 11:00:02 PM
Question about formic.
Does humidity and heat index affect said temp rating? I?m not far from Him and I know that just because the thermometer says 84, doesn?t mean it pleasant. Reality is the heat index could still be around 100.


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I?ll try to answer and support my answer.  Heat index and humidity does not play into the Formic acid gas equations.  My reasoning is simple, gas Law:  PV=nRT. In plain English:

P, pressure times
V, volume
equals:
n, number of moles
times R, gas constant
times T, temperature in kelvin which is just another temp scale just as Fahrenheit.

Humidity and heat index if not part of the gas law therefore is no effect.  The gas law further tells us any mole of gas is 22.4 litters but is affected by temp, pressure and amount of the gas.

Been a long time since I studied the gas law so critique is always welcome.

I hope this answers your question.

I will add to Van's scientific evidence some anecdotal.  I have used MAQS/FormicPro successfully several times and the humidity where I live is usually extremely high.  The humidity/heat index relates to how comfortable you feel because of how your sweat evaporates at different humidity levels.  Your sweat doesn't evaporate at high humidities because the air is already "water-logged", if you will.  I doubt that the formic acid mixture in MAQS/FormicPro would be much affected by humidity, since it's not water-based like your sweat is.             

Yes, Ms Member, heat index or chill index, or chill factor is applied to warm blooded animals only, not objects such as water or Formic acid.

Thank you Mr Van and Member for your explanations. Like 30, I was wondering also. Also thanks Ace...

Good answers.
I?ll just keep to myself now in my own dumb little corner for dumb people.


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Quote from: .30WCF on August 19, 2020, 06:28:53 PM
Good answers.
I?ll just keep to myself now in my own dumb little corner for dumb people.


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Hey, how do you think us "smart people" got smart?  By asking questions.  :wink:   

I do understand that it?s primarily about sweat evaporation. My thinking was, possibly only mental, but I can walk outside on a humid day and the first breath is like trying to breathe through a rubber balloon. Add some gasses to that and I?d have to get away from the gasses so I can breath.


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Quote from: .30WCF on August 19, 2020, 06:51:02 PM
I do understand that it?s primarily about sweat evaporation. My thinking was, possibly only mental, but I can walk outside on a humid day and the first breath is like trying to breathe through a rubber balloon. Add some gasses to that and I?d have to get away from the gasses so I can breath.


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That essentially is the reason why the bees fan and beard when the formic treatment is in the hive, but their breathing systems are nothing like ours, so the analogy only goes so far.  I don't know, but I would doubt that humidity is a strain on their respiration.