First inspection and I found a queenless hive: no brood, no eggs, no larva and the bees were roaring like a queenless hive. I added two frames of capped brood with some larva and a few eggs. I furred out some cells of day old larva, however I don?t think this hive has the nurse bees to make royal jelly for the queen cell. I will add eggs next week when I know there are nurse bees hatched from the capped brood I added. This hive has plenty of pollen, nectar and honey.
Next four days the weather channel has prediction chilly morning with frost expected Friday. I am kind of worried the bees may not be able to keep the capped brood warm? Due to weather, I may not be able to open this hive for a week. Such are the worries of a beekeeper, as you well know.
In N Arkansas, the average last frost is mid-April.
I had heard or may have read that older Bees can revert and make some royal jelly
Quote from: jtcmedic on March 17, 2021, 09:25:38 PM
I had heard or may have read that older Bees can revert and make some royal jelly
Yes I have read of that too.
Mr Van, I agree that the main concern now is if you have enough bees to cover the brood keeping them at the proper temperature through the cooler weather? It is early in your area but I have a question, do you have enough nurse bees in other hives that you could donate some to this hive by the towel covered platform at the entrance method? Problem is if it is frost in the morning you will need adequate temperatures in the mid day to do the donating, if the the brood makes it through the night. Hopefully you have enough bees to get the job done for protection. Just food for thought Mr Van.
Van,
First, did you put the frames in the middle of the brood? If so the bees will keep them warm.
You added 2 frames of capped brood. You will probably have plenty on nurse bees hatch out in the next few days to assist the older bees. The bees could wait three days and select queens from them when there are more nurse bees.
Jim Altmiller
Even a fairly small cluster ought to be able to survive one or two frosty mornings. The majority of the night will still be warmer. Sun will warm it quickly in the morning.
You might consider tossing a moving blanket or such on it overnight to help insulate the box and quell your worries.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on March 18, 2021, 08:01:21 AM
Van,
First, did you put the frames in the middle of the brood? If so the bees will keep them warm.
You added 2 frames of capped brood. You will probably have plenty on nurse bees hatch out in the next few days to assist the older bees. The bees could wait three days and select queens from them when there are more nurse bees.
Jim Altmiller
Yes Sir, capped brood frames were placed in the middle where the brood would naturally be. Although there was no brood, bees were still clinging to the empty brood frames, middle of deep, as if there were brood.
Quote from: jtcmedic on March 17, 2021, 09:25:38 PM
I had heard or may have read that older Bees can revert and make some royal jelly
Mr. Medic, I have heard the same, many times from many sources. My experience is Spring/summer bees can revert as needed.
However I have witnessed winter bees that had no ability to produce royal jelly or would not produce royal jelly as recent as last Spring, 2020. This 2020 queenless hive would ignore queen cups with larva and did not make queen cells, after 2 attempts. Then I added capped brood producing fresh nurse bees. Only after the addition of nurse bees that queen cells were made.
So, last year, 2020 adding capped bees worked so I am repeating the same this year 2021. But please note, my 6 month winters may be a factor regarding royal jelly production. In the southern warmer states with much shorter winters and subsequent younger over wintered bees, production of royal jelly might be a piece of cake. Can a 6 month old winter bee revert compared to a 3 month old winter bee?
> I added two frames of capped brood with some larva and a few eggs.
Being you added two frames of capped brood and if you have enough bees to cover this brood keeping it warm and alive you should have enough nurse bees to produce a queen when this cold spell has passed which should be soon. You can add another mixed frame of eggs, larva and capped brood then and all should work out fine. Wishing you the best.
Mr. Hops, good idea, I do have an insulated hive wrap from Mann. I can?t apply until Friday, tomorrow. This cold front came in sooner than expected; Current temp is 40F with a stiff wind and high of 46F. Yesterday I had too replace a microwave oven so I was tied up most of the day. Friday night is to be freezing so I can wrap the hive prior to the coming frost.
Quote from: Ben Framed on March 18, 2021, 12:00:59 PM
> I added two frames of capped brood with some larva and a few eggs.
Being you added two frames of capped brood and if you have enough bees to cover this brood keeping it warm and alive you should have enough nurse bees to produce a queen when this cold spell has passed which should be soon. You can add another mixed frame of eggs, larva and capped brood then and all should work out fine. Wishing you the best.
Yes Sir, agreed.
Quote from: Hops Brewster on March 18, 2021, 10:45:51 AM
Even a fairly small cluster ought to be able to survive one or two frosty mornings. The majority of the night will still be warmer. Sun will warm it quickly in the morning.
You might consider tossing a moving blanket or such on it overnight to help insulate the box and quell your worries.
The queenless hive is wrapped with an insulated black plastic hive wrap. Thank you Hops. Next week is warm enough that I can open the hive and if no queen cells, then I will add another frame of eggs with furred out cells. There will be nurse bees for sure from the capped brood I added. Hopefully as Medic texted above the winter bees will be able to produce royal jelly and if not able, then the nurse sure will.
Thanks fellas, again for the encouraging words, advice.
Van
I checked the queenless hive, yesterday, 3/24. No queen cells but the capped brood I added survived the cold spell. Capped drone brood is now present in other hives so in another 2-3 weeks, mature drones will be ready for queen mating flights. I?ll add more brood to keep this hive going.
Itsa long road way of doing it but eventually you will get er.
If were in my yard, I would combine the QL hive with another or I would just take it down, distributing the bees and resources to the other hives. They will both appreciate it.
Then come back 2 to 4 weeks later with ripe queens cells from my grafts and make up nucs. Or with mated queens in my pocket and pull off full splits.
If I went the nuc/cell route then another 2 weeks later the failed nucs get combined with the successful nucs into making up full hives.
Food for thought.
We always have nucs available, which is a quick fix for a queenless hive
We overwinter about 15 nucs that can be used to repair or in some cases we have added brood and a nuc to a 8 frame box when splitting for an instant hive.
Spare nucs are a great asset.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on March 27, 2021, 12:16:45 AM
We always have nucs available, which is a quick fix for a queenless hive
We overwinter about 15 nucs that can be used to repair or in some cases we have added brood and a nuc to a 8 frame box when splitting for an instant hive.
Spare nucs are a great asset.
This is a good idea. I plan to do the same this season with more than I usually over winter with. I always have at least 4-5 going into winter but so far queens have made it in the big hives also, so I usually add another 5 frame as needed and when almost ready, convert into a 10 frame hive. Usually by Fall these are very strong hives.
Our nucs graduate from 3 or 4 frames to 5 frames. When the 5 frames get strong then we will split them into a 4 frame. Usually 2 frames of brood with eggs and some bees. The nuc is shifted to another apiary to keep all the bees.
The 5 frame gets left with the queen, bees and 1 frame of brood and will get the field bees.
So rather than make a new hive especially later in the season, we will carry or use the nucs.
Beemaster always gets me thinking. I just recently shook out a queenless nuc into the beeyard. It was a friend's bees. I should have had him transfer the frames into a 10 frame box and newspaper combine it with his other hive. Or added a frame with a sealed QC into the nuc.
It is amazing how many days a softball size cluster of queenless bees (I am sure there is no Q) will linger around the yard on a bush.
The nucleus colony is the swiss army knife of the beekeepers tool box. Other than an infestation of disease or varroa, there isnt any hive problem that cannot be resolved by having empty nucs equipment and a few spare nuc colonies around.
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on March 27, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
The colony is the swiss army knife of the beekeepers tool box. Other than an infestation of disease or varroa, there isnt any hive problem that cannot be resolved by having empty nucs equipment and a few spare nuc colonies around.
Agreed, thus the name sake itself.
Nucleus
The central and most important part of an object, movement, or group, forming the basis for its activity and growth.
Nucs are indeed the Swiss Army knife. A excellent metaphor by HP. As Old Beavo suggest, nucs are problem solver for many a distressed hive.
I will have a nuc, made by split this week. By May, I will have about 10 nucs ready to support my queen rearing operation. But I tell ya, I am not good at over winterization of nucs in this area. I have tried side by side for warmth, singly, double and even tripe high 5 frame nucs and old man winter takes his share. So I just over winter over 10 frames as I have done for, Er eh, never mind.
HoneyPump, you always provide great advice, thank you Sir. I will save this hive, as a backyard beek this my enjoyment of bees is working different solutions to create resolve therefore saving the hive. The easiest was adding eggs and hoping for a queen cell but there is no mature drones for mating for another 7 days. I saw the first walking drone, one, last week.
So, I?ll keep adding brood as needed or combine with a split this week.
Overwintering nucs depends on their strength in Autumn.
If the nuc is really full then they will overwinter OK. These full nucs are tempting to add to a box to make a hive, but in the Autumn you are risking giving them too much room to take care of over winter.
Logic says there is not enough room, 5 frame nuc with 2 frames of brood that is already full of bees, should over flow but it doesn't.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on March 28, 2021, 06:42:00 PM
Overwintering nucs depends on their strength in Autumn.
If the nuc is really full then they will overwinter OK. These full nucs are tempting to add to a box to make a hive, but in the Autumn you are risking giving them too much room to take care of over winter.
Logic says there is not enough room, 5 frame nuc with 2 frames of brood that is already full of bees, should over flow but it doesn't.
Thanks Mr. Beavo. I agree, my logic would prevail and I would make a 10 frame out of a Fall stuffed nuc. I would be willing to winter over a 5 frame as you described, over stuffed with bees, brood. This over winterization of 5 frame nucs is successfully done by many.
QuoteBeemaster always gets me thinking. I just recently shook out a queenless nuc into the beeyard. It was a friend's bees. I should have had him transfer the frames into a 10 frame box and newspaper combine it with his other hive. Or added a frame with a sealed QC into the nuc.
It is amazing how many days a softball size cluster of queenless bees (I am sure there is no Q) will linger around the yard on a bush.
Something that I came away with from last years Beefest was the double screened Bottom Thanks Jim. Any way I have used them consistently. Queenless hive? still chilly? put those 2 frames on a queen-rite hive with a double screened bottom add a frame of open brood. VIOLA. Ive built about 30 of them out of old plyboard feeder tops. they are great for splits also, you cant beat them. Thanks again Jim.