Which is better to buy, which is to say, which is better for me to sell...
1. A 5 frame nuc with queen bred in the early spring before honey flow. (A month old)
2. A 5 frame nuc with a queen from the previous spring, come through the winter. (A year old)
Quote from: Bob Wilson on June 26, 2021, 12:19:37 AM
Which is better to buy, which is to say, which is better for me to sell...
1. A 5 frame nuc with queen bred in the early spring before honey flow. (A month old)
2. A 5 frame nuc with a queen from the previous spring, come through the winter. (A year old)
Hopefully both the one year, and the one month queen are both good layers. If not neither you nor the customer needs one that isn't. Other than that, a one year well mated producing queen producing gentle hygienic stock should be ok for sale. The one month queen most likely has only been laying for three weeks or less. How is she doing? Does she lay nice patterns? One thing is for sure in my opinion, the customer is depending on you for a good solid proven queen.... I have confidence that you already know this and have every intention of good things for your customer/friend. Congratulations on the sale.
I?m not sure it would matter. At least around here, nucs can be hard to find. Wouldn?t most bee keepers have the ability to make their own, and the first time keeper be happy to just get their hands on one?
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Selling to a new beekeeper is a lot of fun. Be prepared to spend an average of at least 2 hours answering questions, helping them understand hive components, and putting the bees into their hive. Even when you give them a checklist, sometimes they don't even bring a ratchet strap and entrance closer. Often that is 3-4 hours of time for a sale.
Verrrrrry rarely does someone just show up with an appointment [on time], pay $20 extra for a 3/4" plywood 5 frame hive w/ hive block+landing board to carry them, and take them away.
Let me modify my response some. To answer the specific question, in my opinion, the new queen would be easier to reason with someone that they can get more time out of vs having a proven queen that will need to be replaced sooner. I guess if I were buying one today, I?d rather have the younger queen.
2 - by far the superior product.
Most nuc buyers are looking for a fast track start to establishing a hive that is stable, well organized, and will launch right in to making them a honey crop. That young queen from last summer will achieve that performance thrice over and lap circles all around the newly mated one.
The experienced buyers, my buyers that line up on the waiting list, want that established stable young queen who was kept in a nuc, overwintered in her nuc, and is super-primed to blow the lid off her new hive this year.
All if my nuc sales are my overwintered 6-8 month old nucs. I will rarely sell younger queen as a nuc until she is at minimum approaching the end of her 2nd brood cycle. In this way I get very very few callbacks about problems. With new queens, new nucs, those calls can quadruple if the buyers are novice or newbee.
All that said, in the end, whatever the customer wants I guess. Newer has to be better right? (that has not been my experience). Buyers who insist on that brand new queen .. I pass them along to my competitors, and I move on to the next persons on the waiting list who knows and appreciates what they are getting in a well established nucleus colony.
Imho
IMHO: Wise words Mr.HoneyPump
Quote from: FloridaGardener on June 26, 2021, 12:50:25 AM
Selling to a new beekeeper is a lot of fun. Be prepared to spend an average of at least 2 hours answering questions, helping them understand hive components, and putting the bees into their hive. Even when you give them a checklist, sometimes they don't even bring a ratchet strap and entrance closer. Often that is 3-4 hours of time for a sale.
Verrrrrry rarely does someone just show up with an appointment [on time], pay $20 extra for a 3/4" plywood 5 frame hive w/ hive block+landing board to carry them, and take them away.
That is experience talking.... FloridaGardener, have you sold any nucs using the portable EZ nuc boxes? Anyone else? From what I am gathering, this type box seems to be picking up steam for folks who sell nucs.
The EZnuc, coreplast, are ... well ... EZ to work with. Has all of the features needed for the seller and the buyer. I use them almost exclusively. Unless, the buyer drops off their own boxes, which must be pre-sterilized.
I asked because I am working out procedures in my mind for priming my hives for honey production next spring. When I reduce resources to keep back swarming, and if I pull queens at the beginning of the honey flow to maximize nectar gathering, I will need to sell off the new resulting nucs/and or the prior year's nucs.
1. New queen. I wondered if a brand new queen, full of pheremone, and with a potentially a longer laying life in front of her, might be the standard, expected product.
2. Established queen. However, it seems to me that a proven queen, proven wintered, well mated at the beginning of the honey flow, and strongly laying in early spring, would be a more trustworthy, valuable comodity. It is what I would want, but I wondered about the loss of a year's worth of potential laying to the customer.
I make it my business that people know exactly what they are geting and why I am offering it.
Thanks, as always.
Quote from: Bob Wilson on June 26, 2021, 12:19:37 AM
Which is better to buy, which is to say, which is better for me to sell...
1. A 5 frame nuc with queen bred in the early spring before honey flow. (A month old)
2. A 5 frame nuc with a queen from the previous spring, come through the winter. (A year old)
2. Over winter nucs are far better, just seem to build up faster.
I bought 10 from a local supplier this year and have taken 4 splits from them and the original 10have bounced back and have made 4 supers of honey and working on the 5th.
My own over-wintered nucs have out-performed my double-deep overwintered colonies.
Brother Adam said a queen does her best work in her second season.
"The consensus of opinion is in favour of supersedure at or near the close of a queen's second season, and I feel certain that (with few exceptions), owing to the genial winter temperature of Australasia, and the prolonged breeding season, queens are at their best in this part of the world in their second season, and rapidly deteriorate after."--Isaac Hopkins, The Australasian Bee Manual
"In the north exceptional queens do well the second year; but, if a queen does even fair work the third year, it is evident she was not worked as she should have been during the two years previous."--Jay Smith, Queen Rearing Simplified
"In the North if the queen is doing good work the second year she might be allowed to live the third year but as a rule two years is long enough to keep any queen."--Jay Smith, Better Queens
#1 would be my first choice, especially for beginners. I found that beginners who spend the extra money for overwintered queens usually end up looking at them at the end of a branch 30 feet up. First year queens are just as productive (sometimes more) than second year queens and they are less likely to swarm. Second season queens get replaced often if they dont swarm and some beginners are left scratching their head when they have laying worker or weak hives in the fall. Almost all my hives go into winter with first year queens.
I respectfully disagree with most of that, well pretty much all of it. I do so recognizing that in beekeeping the hive management methods and experience varies, and thus so does the outcomes.
I assume you include the cost of the EZ nuc box in the price of the nuc. Who knows if they house some of their own bees in it before bringing it back?
Quote from: Bob Wilson on June 26, 2021, 05:55:46 PM
I assume you include the cost of the EZ nuc box in the price of the nuc. Who knows if they house some of their own bees in it before bringing it back?
Bob I have not sold nucs but I may in the future. I would assume when the nuc hive is sold with the EZ nuc box, it is the buyers to keep. At least they is the way I would think I would go about it. I would probably add the cost of the EZ to the price of the sale. All in one so to speak. I would not ask for the EZ to be returned. I am open to thoughts on this as more thoughts are always welcome. I would be interested in seeing how experienced nuc sellers handle this.
I am open to thoughts on this as more thoughts are always welcome. I would be interested in seeing how experienced nuc sellers handle this.
I use the Pro Nuc that Betterbee sells, easier and more versatile to use than the EZ nuc and you can add a bottle feeder. They sell most of their nucs in the Pro Nuc. Of course the price of the box is included with the nuc.
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on June 26, 2021, 04:05:48 PM
I respectfully disagree with most of that, well pretty much all of it. I do so recognizing that in beekeeping the hive management methods and experience varies, and thus so does the outcomes.
No problem, one uppers don't bother me at all.
Quote from: beesnweeds on June 26, 2021, 10:55:04 PM
I use the Pro Nuc that Betterbee sells, easier and more versatile to use than the EZ nuc and you can add a bottle feeder. They sell most of their nucs in the Pro Nuc. Of course the price of the box is included with the nuc.
Thanks for the tip beesnweeds....I will check these out..
Quote from: Ben Framed on June 26, 2021, 11:45:52 PM
Quote from: beesnweeds on June 26, 2021, 10:55:04 PM
I use the Pro Nuc that Betterbee sells, easier and more versatile to use than the EZ nuc and you can add a bottle feeder. They sell most of their nucs in the Pro Nuc. Of course the price of the box is included with the nuc.
Thanks for the tip beesnweeds....I will check these out..
beesnweeds the picture at betterbee did not show the inside of the pro nuc but the outside of the nuc looked very impressive. Thanks
Quote from: Ben Framed on June 27, 2021, 01:03:47 AM
Quote from: Ben Framed on June 26, 2021, 11:45:52 PM
Quote from: beesnweeds on June 26, 2021, 10:55:04 PM
I use the Pro Nuc that Betterbee sells, easier and more versatile to use than the EZ nuc and you can add a bottle feeder. They sell most of their nucs in the Pro Nuc. Of course the price of the box is included with the nuc.
Thanks for the tip beesnweeds....I will check these out..
beesnweeds the picture at betterbee did not show the inside of the pro nuc but the outside of the nuc looked very impressive. Thanks
This is a good video.
https://youtu.be/Qj4fT2M0kXg
I do not see how these can be improved! Very impressive! Again thanks beesnweeds... (bee totes)! 😊
Quote from: Ben Framed on June 27, 2021, 10:04:07 AM
I do not see how these can be improved! Very impressive! Again thanks beesnweeds... (bee totes)! 😊
It would be great if you could supper them, my current wooden nucs I can and add suppers on top
I?ve thought about trying some of the pro nucs. I like the way you feed with them. Once you pull the top insert out of a EZ there?s no going back. I guess you could keep them and try taping back in.
Quote from: Brian MCquilkin on June 27, 2021, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Ben Framed on June 27, 2021, 10:04:07 AM
I do not see how these can be improved! Very impressive! Again thanks beesnweeds... (bee totes)! 😊
It would be great if you could supper them, my current wooden nucs I can and add suppers on top
I agree it would. I am thinking these are primarily for selling nucs for transport but these look to be so well made a person might use these for mating nucs? Especially since they come in a variety of colored tops. Perhaps this duel purpose is what the inventor had in mind? I do like what I have seen so far.
Quote from: Bob Wilson on June 26, 2021, 05:55:46 PM
I assume you include the cost of the EZ nuc box in the price of the nuc. Who knows if they house some of their own bees in it before bringing it back?
On this question. The price of the nucleus colony is based on what the whole set is. For the box, the buyer pays the add-on cost of the nuc box - whatever type of box that is. They can supply their own box, and a reduced price will reflect that. Customer supplied boxes must be new or clean and sterile: wood boxes torched out, plastic boxes acid washed and rinsed. You know the health and condition of your bees before they are transferred into the box. It is important to do what you can to protect them and yourself from picking up pathogens from the transport box that shows up in your beeyard.
The EZnuc is designed as a transport-transfer box. Not intended for bees to live in for any extended period of time, though the bees can be in it for awhile if necessary. I offer a cash-back on the box if it is returned in clean and sound reusable condition within 4 days after pickup. If it is returned within the 4 days I can be fairly comfortable that only my bees and equipment had been in it, and will accept it. Beyond 4 days I do not want it back for reasons of scheduling/logistics of other nuc pickups and biosecurity screening. Being of coreplast material, it is very easy to sterilize by unfolding and cleaning with acid wash should there be concerns. The onus is on the customer to clean it and rinse it out before returning.
Hope that helps!
I have questions on the pro-nuc for those who have used them. If I were to try them, it would be an investment expecting to get multiple years use out of them.
What type of plastic are they made of?
How do they hold up over time? I am thinking about specific things like UV lifespan. How long sitting out in the field until the plastic become brittle and cracking/shattering from basic handling. What about cool/cold weather handling? Does the plastic become brittle at temperatures in the low 30s F? Which is when we would be putting them away or taking them out of storage in tall stacks and pallets at a time.
I like the looks of how they are designed for compact storage.
These questions may belong in a different/new thread, but since we are looking at the pro-nuc a bit here, figured I would ask.
I like the Pro Nuc idea better than the EZ nuc, but it seems to me that if the bees are given any time to build, there will be burr comb all in it. With the beveled sides (so they can stack), and the high top, it seems bee space must be badly sacrificed. Is that not an issue?
Not to mention, it seems might drafty compared to a wooden nuc for early spring cold snaps.
Quote from: Bob Wilson on June 27, 2021, 10:14:10 PM
I like the Pro Nuc idea better than the EZ nuc, but it seems to me that if the bees are given any time to build, there will be burr comb all in it. With the beveled sides (so they can stack), and the high top, it seems bee space must be badly sacrificed. Is that not an issue?
Not to mention, it seems might drafty compared to a wooden nuc for early spring cold snaps.
Your questions are good questions. Maybe beesnweeds will tell us more.
Let me ressurect this thread to add a few questions.
When you beeks sell a nuc, do you always have the queen already marked?
Do you show the customer the marked queen before they drive off your property with the nuc?
I mark for the novice. I may or may not mark for the experienced buyer. I put my own eyes on her before and as the nuc made. Nucs are not opened at pickup, lid may be lifted for a peek, but there is no dive-in at pickup merely because of time limits. If I have lots of time available I may do so but it is rare. The Queen is always guaranteed there and laying at pickup. Buyer choice is to take the word or leave the nuc here for someone else. I deal with solid buyers only. Anyone shifty at the beginning is going to be a problem later. Just send those folks away. I like alot of questions. There is a difference between questions and looking for out clauses and stiffing phishers. Recognize the difference and know what to do with them.
The underlying principle is that you need to be fully confident in your bees and the nucs that you are making available. So confident that you are prepared to immediately on the spot send away any customer that attempts to give you any feelings otherwise. There is nothing elitist about doing so. It is merely protection and expression of your integrity and elimination of those ankle biter liability risks.
Quote from: Bob Wilson on August 02, 2021, 02:39:36 PM
Let me ressurect this thread to add a few questions.
When you beeks sell a nuc, do you always have the queen already marked?
Do you show the customer the marked queen before they drive off your property with the nuc?
Only mark the queen if requested, sometimes I will pop open the lid for a quick peek but never pull and frames.
My nucs are always strong and have a good laying queen.
I explain to newbies that the bees are livestock and they are responsible for them.
Seasoned beekeepers normally drive in load up and go.
Thanks for the advice, guys. Points taken.
I will mark the queens if I see them through the fall or spring.
Quote from: Bob Wilson on June 27, 2021, 10:14:10 PM
I like the Pro Nuc idea better than the EZ nuc, but it seems to me that if the bees are given any time to build, there will be burr comb all in it. With the beveled sides (so they can stack), and the high top, it seems bee space must be badly sacrificed. Is that not an issue?
Not to mention, it seems might drafty compared to a wooden nuc for early spring cold snaps.
You have good instincts about the burr comb. Don't leave bees in that box for long it will be slap full of wax everywhere, a big old mess. In all other respects brilliant design and easy to use and reuse.