In your experience of storing comb, what are your findings through the years? What method or methods have you resolved to using to protect and prevent wax moth damage to your stored comb? ALL input will be greatly appreciated.
Keeping bees in a warmer climate I would put the frames in a freezer for 24 hrs and store them in the supers with para moth crystals,
Here in Wisconsin, I leave them on the hives till October and then stack them outside in their boxes with a board on the bottom and lids on top of each stack.It's like putting them in a freezer for 5 months with the winters here.
Quote from: Brian MCquilkin on July 19, 2021, 09:51:45 AM
Keeping bees in a warmer climate I would put the frames in a freezer for 24 hrs and store them in the supers with para moth crystals,
I do the same with drawn blanks, but if the comb has any little bit of pollen or honey I put the frames in plastic bins instead to prevent drawing mice or other critters.
I keep the frames in extra boxes, stack them in the corner of the shop on small moving dollies and treat with paramoth crystals about every three months. I don't freeze them before storage, just stack them and toss in some paramoth crystals. I was spending a lot of time digging through my equipment so I've started labeling the boxes as to what's in them like drawn comb, comb that needs replacing, foundation or naked frames.
I spray them with BT to keep cabbage loopers away from them, since it hasn't been approved for wax moths. It does work for wax moths, too, you just can't say it is for that purpose. :wink: :cool:
Quote from: iddee on July 19, 2021, 03:46:32 PM
I spray them with BT to keep cabbage loopers away from them, since it hasn't been approved for wax moths. It does work for wax moths, too, you just can't say it is for that purpose. :wink: :cool:
I will remember this in case the needs arises in preventing cabbage looper problems, :shocked: as well as the bonus protection of wax moths!
:wink: :cool:
I put a 1 inch tin container on top of 11 medium box?s of drawn wax and put moth crystals in them. I put a spacer and a lid on the stack. This has worked pretty well. Just make sure you air them out a week or more before you use them. I usually put the boxes in a half circle with a oscillating fan to make sure they air out and it keeps the moths out.
Jim Altmiller
I have a chest freezer that any comb goes in that is suspect. Other than that it all goes on para-moth. lid, Box with comb,piece of cardboard,(old beer carton cut up, 2 teaspoons of paramoth on that, another box etc. till i cant stack anymore. Start all over again I used to tape all the joints but no longer do that.
What are para-moth crystal made from? Active ingredient?
para-dichlorobenzene or PBD
Quote from: Bill Murray on July 19, 2021, 08:43:14 PM
para-dichlorobenzene or PBD
Brian MCquilkin and The15thMember
I picked up a small chest freezer today just for this purpose.
Bill Murray & Beemaster2
I just checked out a link to a major retail store, one found in every town it seems these days. :happy:
They sell moth ice crystals which claims to kill clothes moths. Active ingredients
p-dichlorobenzene 99.9%. I am assuming this is the same product as para-dichlorobenzene or PBD?
Beeboy01
I like the idea of placing the supers on moving dollies! Good idea that I will use. Thanks..
Last but CERTAINLY not least
Iddee
I plan to order some BT just in case the cabbage loopers invade as well. :wink: :cool:
Kidding aside thanks Iddee you know your stuff. Will one treatment be enough until the next season, meaning how long will the treatment last?....
All these suggestions sound good and I am sure will do the trick!
Thanks All....
The treatment will last until you replace the wax. IE: several years.
Quote from: Ben Framed on July 19, 2021, 11:08:27 PM
Bill Murray & Beemaster2
I just checked out a link to a major retail store, one found in every town it seems these days. :happy:
They sell moth ice crystals which claims to kill clothes moths. Active ingredients
p-dichlorobenzene 99.9%. I am assuming this is the same product as para-dichlorobenzene or PBD?
Yep, that's what I use, except mine are balls. You do NOT want naphthalene! Balls, crystals, what-have-you, all are fine if the active ingredient is PBD.
Quote from: Ben Framed on July 19, 2021, 11:08:27 PM
Last but CERTAINLY not least
Iddee
I plan to order some BT just in case the cabbage loopers invade as well. :wink: :cool:
:cheesy:
I use Xentari brand of BT, be aware that it does have a shelf life of 3 years due to it being a living organism for want of a better description. I received a new bag last week and called the manufacture with the lot code, it was only a year old so is good for 2 more years. Some resellers don't realize there is a shelf life and (as they should) want to move old stock.
Member,
Bee careful. As far as I know, only the ones in crystal form are safe. Even they are not safe if you don?t air them out properly. I had an observation hive Slowly die over 3 days after rebuilding it. The only thing that I have figured out that killed them was that the frames were still contaminated with moth crystals.
Jim Altmiller
Quote
Kidding aside thanks Iddee you know your stuff. Will one treatment be enough until the next season, meaning how long will the treatment last?....
Quote from: iddee on July 19, 2021, 11:30:00 PM
The treatment will last until you replace the wax. IE: several years.
Thanks iddee
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on July 20, 2021, 06:28:52 PM
Member,
Bee careful. As far as I know, only the ones in crystal form are safe. Even they are not safe if you don?t air them out properly. I had an observation hive Slowly die over 3 days after rebuilding it. The only thing that I have figured out that killed them was that the frames were still contaminated with moth crystals.
Jim Altmiller
Thanks Jim, I'll keep that in mind. I've never had any issues, and I do air them out before using.
100% BT Certan. Expensive but no toxicity to people or bees & no odor. Why use stinky & carcinogenic para when nice little bacteria do a better job.
Quote from: LawyerRick on July 21, 2021, 11:04:05 PM
100% BT Certan. Expensive but no toxicity to people or bees & no odor. Why use stinky & carcinogenic para when nice little bacteria do a better job.
Thank you Lawyer Rick...
So just so I have this if I pull brood comb I can just spray it and store it with the Xentari BT and it will kill the young larva? How long does this work for before needing to be reapplied?
Thank you in advance.
As Iddee said above it lasts several years.
I ordered some, but 1 more question. Is BT all the same? couldnt quite figure that out. And if it lasts forever it really wasnt that expensive.
Quote from: Bill Murray on September 17, 2021, 07:25:30 PM
I ordered some, but 1 more question. Is BT all the same? couldnt quite figure that out. And if it lasts forever it really wasnt that expensive.
It's my understanding that certain strains of BT are more effective against certain insect species. The BT subspecies "aizawai" is the one recommended for wax moths. I'm not sure if the other strains would work or not, but at very least I doubt they would work as well.
As 15th said, the aizawai strain is what I have always used because it was what was originally approved under the old original Certan product. There are those that use the kuharski (sp) strain available in garden stores and claim no ill effects. Yes its inexpensive unless you pay for the legal testing and approval through a major supplier the same as oxalic acid.
I too have started using Xentari BT this year. Has worked flawlessly so far.
I place the entire medium into my upright freezer for 36+ hours. Then I stack them on top of a plastic sheet on the floor and cover the top of the stack. Para Moth hasn?t been necessary. No problems.
Well arrived today, I will spray tomorrow. But has anyone tried a dunk? Just wondering cause that seems more efficient.
No Bill, hard enough to get them dry after spraying, here in FL every mildews pretty quick if it doesn't dry.
Bill,
When I used BT, I just put it in a spray. One sweep across each side. It does take a while but it does protect them.
Jim Altmiller
I used Xentari stuff a couple years ago. Did have wax moths, but most of the combs had zero protein in them. I did some late splits to accommodate some left-over queens. This took care of much of mine. I'm going to all deeps and only pulled 4-5 gallons of honey 3x, pulling only a few frames here and there.
Thinking about getting a used freezer specifically to keep frames in.
Thanks Jo Jo. Good information here from each of you.
Interesting thread.
Here (UK) it is illegal to use moth balls (para-dichlorobenzene) to prevent wax moths. Some worries about it potentially contaminating the wax in the comb and then leaching out into honey next year.
Greater Wax moth is our major problem. For years I used to spray my brood frames with Certan B401 and store in my bee shed. Then it became unavailable. I was told by supposedly reliable sources that dipel BF would do the same job. It?s made from a different bacteria than B401 and is used for biological control of garden caterpillars and other pests.
I can tell you it doesn?t work for wax moth, over here at least! I lost over 12 full boxes of drawn brood frames that winter. All sprayed as usual and stored in bee shed.
Currently now changed practise to treating frames with burning sulphur strips before sealing top and bottom of the stacks with poly sheets and storing them outside. I think the combination of the Sulphur dioxide from the burning strips killing any insects (or eggs) present and the relative cool temperatures outdoors stop any further infestation. The down side is I get quite a few mouldy frames next spring, particular any with pollen stores in.
:cry:
Quote from: NigelP on October 07, 2021, 11:43:16 AM
Interesting thread.
Here (UK) it is illegal to use moth balls (para-dichlorobenzene) to prevent wax moths. Some worries about it potentially contaminating the wax in the comb and then leaching out into honey next year.
Greater Wax moth is our major problem. For years I used to spray my brood frames with Certan B401 and store in my bee shed. Then it became unavailable. I was told by supposedly reliable sources that dipel BF would do the same job. It?s made from a different bacteria than B401 and is used for biological control of garden caterpillars and other pests.
I can tell you it doesn?t work for wax moth, over here at least! I lost over 12 full boxes of drawn brood frames that winter. All sprayed as usual and stored in bee shed.
Currently now changed practise to treating frames with burning sulphur strips before sealing top and bottom of the stacks with poly sheets and storing them outside. I think the combination of the Sulphur dioxide from the burning strips killing any insects (or eggs) present and the relative cool temperatures outdoors stop any further infestation. The down side is I get quite a few mouldy frames next spring, particular any with pollen stores in.
:cry:
Oh man, that is rough! How horrible to lose all that drawn comb! I deal with mold a lot in my location too, and it can be a real pain. At least the bees are pretty good at cleaning it up. It's a shame you don't have colder winters; a good hard freeze is probably the best and easiest way to deal with the little pests. It's hit or miss for us where cold winters go, so some years I have more trouble with wax moths and hive beetles than others.
Quote from: The15thMember on October 07, 2021, 12:11:41 PM
Oh man, that is rough!
It was a horrible mess :angry:
But we survived....
I am opening this back up. I took some BT treated (sprayed) out today and they were moldy. Does this always happen?
You did not let the BT dry before you stored them away.
I like to spray on a warm sunny day, making what I call "teepees" with the frames. Stand three to four of them on end all leaning against each other at the top. I does not take long for them to dry, be careful or they will melt down in the sunshine. All it takes is a fine mist to reach the bottom of the cells, I would not dunk or drench them.
You can buy Bt at good garden centers or off of the internet, much much cheaper than certan. Once mixed with water it is only good for maybe two day then it will go rancid. Mix 2 teaspoon to the gallon. A one pound bag will last you and your buddy a good while. Do wear some type of mask when handling the powder.