Hi Folks,
Early in spring I bought a Ross Rounds kit (Ceracell Rounds) to use in conjunction with the comb honey squares and rounds that I was experimenting with. I had all sorts of issues with the kit. The bees just didn?t like the plastic. They are working it well now but for a couple of months it was a struggle to get the bees to show any interest. I made sure that the rounds were placed on a strong hive overflowing with bees and there was a good flow in progress but very little happened. If anyone has tips or advice in this area I would appreciate your guidance.
Cheers
Les
Les, Hopefully someone here has first hand experience with these. I for one know very little about Ross Rounds. I have watched a couple videos where they were featured. I will post one of those here in case you haven't seen it.
https://youtu.be/RFxTaRFLVgY
Thanks for that Phillip. I have seen the clip before. Assembly is quite simple and from that perspective it is a good system. Getting the bees onto new plastic frames was the issue. My first batch should be finally finished in a couple of weeks. At least now there will be a coating of wax and propolis on parts of the frames. This should help to make the frames more attractive to the bees. My kit didn?t include the red half frames for the outside of the block of frames. This meant that some of the comb sections bulged slightly due to poor bee space. I rotated those frames to minimise this.
I have 3 boxes only. I bought them quite a few years ago because of the simplicity, but wasnt overly impressed, hence only the three boxes still. I have always had trouble with all outside rounds getting drawn out and capped, unless I remember to move them around. Im sure someone, somewhere is using them and really like them. My personal opinion is they are good gifts for close friends and family that like comb honey.
I agree Bill. The outside frames were the last to get started but I suppose that is generally the case with honey production anyway. Combine that with the bees reluctance to initially work the frames and a fair amount of time can be lost. I may have now sorted out the biggest mistake I made with this system. I?ve been running double brood boxes. The bees have been using the Ross Rounds super as a resting place while the top brood box gets back filled with honey. They have obviously decided the it was the best place to store nectar. When the second brood box was back filled, they then started on the Ross Rounds as they had no other option. It?s been a good learning experience. Got the problem sorted yesterday and hopefully the girls will finish the job. I reckon in about two weeks the rounds should be ready for harvest. Just wish I?d thought things through a little better.
Cheers
Les
Option for comb honey is a split frame, full depth with bar across the center.
Put in super in the middle during a big flow and cut out the squares and put into the container, quick and easy.[attachment=0][/attachment][attachment=1][/attachment]
OldBeavo, looks simple yet effective. The results included.
I?m with Phillip on that one. That?s some pretty looking comb honey there Oldbeavo.
Oldbeavo; Do you get 6 pieces of cut comb from each deep frame?
jimmy
Jimmy
we get 8 that size and 18 if we use the small containers.
The large sell for $12 and the small $6. So we can make about $100 per frame if it is perfectly capped.
For a market we will cut 4 large out of one section and 9 smalls out of the other, This about the amount we take to a market.
That?s good value adding Oldbeavo. You are getting the same sort of return that I?m getting for putting in all that extra work into making frames.
I did try raising Ross rounds when I was in my twenties.. It did not work well for me.. Never had a good honeyflow in this area yeah 50 years. I did try it again When I had bee in Vermont.. At a dairy farm.. At this time my life I was about 65 years old.. I did read 2 books on this subject... One was written by Roger A Morse. "Comb honey's production" This book is still available at
http://wicwas.com/about-wicwas-press/ The other book was written by Richard Taylor I believe the name was how to raise comd honey.. I believe this book to be out of print... This is the one I used... He had like 5 or 6 different ways to set up the production colony... The double shook swarm..Is the one I woman I liked the best.. There was about 10 or12 steps in this.. Process . When I was setting up the colony and making comb honey.. I did have about 85% to 90% success rate... Used to get about a 100 to a 150 rounds out of each colony.. This was about 2015..
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the reply. It?s a real learning curve trying to get the rounds up and running. I do recall reading something about using shook swarms but dismissed it at the time as it sounded too much like work. :grin: :grin: :grin: Now I wish I had paid more attention to what I?d read. I never explained the process and experimenting undertaken to try and get these rounds up and running. I think now is the time to do that. First of all I have not mentioned that the frames I am using are the newer kit that makes 8 rounds per frame. I am using a standard deep which holds 64 rounds in total. When I assembled the kit, I placed the rounds on my strongest hive. It was overflowing with bees and there was a good honey flow in progress. I had some of my own comb honey rounds and squares on this hive and they were drawing those out and filling them quickly. The rounds were placed on this hive and nothing happened. The bees were not even interesting in entering that box (even though I?d removed the honey super and replaced it with the rounds super) Some bees would come up into the super and just chill out. They were not going to work it. After about a week I decided to put a bait comb up into the super to encourage more bees to come up through the excluder. Some did but they stayed on the bait comb. Honey was coming in on all of my other hives so I decided to move it and try somewhere else. After 3 weeks nothing had happened. It was time to change my approach. One morning after about 5 days of rain, one of my strong hives swarmed. It was a large swarm that only just fitted into a 10 frame box. Instead of putting the swarm on 10 frames of foundation, I marched the bees into a box full of uncapped honey. A queen excluder was added and then the super of rounds was placed on top. I thought if I could get the swarm to start the rounds and draw out the foundation, I could then place the box onto a strong hive to finish the job. With the queen having nowhere to lay in the brood box, honey would have to be moved into the rounds box to make room for the queen to lay. After two weeks I checked the rounds super. The bees had drawn out the bottom 32 rounds and were depositing nectar in them. The top 32 rounds were not touched at all. It was as if there was a physical barrier preventing the bees from moving up. The queen was laying in the brood box but I decided to move the rounds and make some more space for this swarm to develop naturally. The hive I placed rounds onto continued to fill the bottom 32 rounds but would not touch the top ones at all. A couple of weeks ago I noticed that there were bees everywhere in the rounds super. They had finally taken to the top section of rounds. An inspection of the top brood box (I?m running double brood boxes this year) gave me the answer as to why activity had started in the super. The bees had back filled the top brood box with honey. As a result, the bees were forced up into the rounds super and began working it. Another lesson learnt.
It looks like you made at least 2 mistakes... At least I think so... One was Queen excluder.. The next one was using all brand new equipment.. Of course there are a lot more tips and tricks than just those 2.. Is the 1st thing I did... For the outside wooden boxes... I cut down mediums... That I used for honey production...For the 1st go... round.. If I remember correctly... I started out .. With 6 boxes.. I did this project for only about 8 years... Before I move out of the USA....YES The manipulation of the hives.. Is a job no doubt.. about it...
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
I have heard that the queen doesn?t like to go into those spaces. Will try leaving out the queen excluder next time. I reckon you are right about the new equipment as well. I bet it will be much easier next time round now that the bees have added propolis, wax etc all over the frames. Thanks for the tips Jim. It makes life a bit easier if people help out when things aren?t going to plan.
Cheers
Les
Les
A double brood box has the same amount if brood in it as a single. The double gives the queen options where she wants to lay and the rest of the space is filled with pollen and honey.
So even though there is a honey flow the bees don't want to use the new plastic gear and so will stack honey in the double brood box.
Thought Les, if all the brood was put in a single box, then the QX and the single new gear on top then the bees don't have any options but to use it.
if we have a super that is full but not capped and we want to give them space as we won't be back for 10 days, then under super them with new waxed plastic foundation frames. They will totally fill the uncapped super and cap it of nicely before they have to at last resort start drawing the new frames.
PS. All our hives are single 8 frame brood boxes with QX's.
That?s exactly what I was thinking and what happened in that hive. A single brood box would be the forcing issue to solve the problem.
OldBeavo that was a good explanation. I appreciate that you took the take to explain it so carefully and clear. I thank you also.
Phillip.
I agree. Comments have been really helpful and appreciated. It not only gives me a step in the right direction, responses may also help others who venture down this path. It was interesting to compare this process to the comb sections that I was also making using my timber frames. There was no hesitancy for the bees to climb over them and start their work (even the sections with plastic inserts) I think Jim 134?s comments were also very good. New plastic has a smell that the bees obviously don?t like. I?m hoping the next batch that I make will go a little more smoothly.
Just checked the Ross Rounds super. About 50 of the 64 rounds are capped. 2 haven?t even been started and the rest are in the process of being capped. Should be harvesting in a week or so.
Finally had a good day to get in and grab the Ross Rounds. All 8 frames looked like this one:
[attachment=0][/attachment]
And the 64 rounds packaged up ready for sealing and labelling:
[attachment=1][/attachment]
Thanks again for all of your comments and advice. With the ideas and information you have provided, the next attempt should reach a successful conclusion without the same degree of head scratching and frustration that occurred with the first trial run.
Cheers
Les
Those are some good looking rounds Les!
I tried them a couple of years ago and did not get them put on the bees soon enough, they started pulling a little comb but our dearth hit and all progress stopped. I pulled the frames out and put them into the freezer. Last year I just popped them back on at the height of the spring flow and they went to town on them. I do run QE for my comb honey and do not have any problems.
My problem is finding the market for the rounds, most people are not sure what to do with the comb honey. I did find a Greek family that bought an bunch of them, so I guess that is a start.
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G3farms
Did you forget to attach the pictures... Or figure out what happened to them ??
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
Pics too big for this forum and I don't know how to resize.
iPhone / iPad or android?
Lovel Rounds Les. Hope thye sell well for you.
Thanks Nigel. I have sealed a couple of them and popped them in the freezer for two days. Hopefully they will defrost in the container without condensation issues.
Quote from: The15thMember on February 09, 2022, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: Lesgold on February 09, 2022, 09:59:09 PM
iPhone / iPad or android?
Or Windows?
windows
When freezing ross rounds I read to put them into zip lock bags, freeze, and then let them thaw out while still closed up in the zip lock bag. This is to help keep them from sweating as they come to room temperature. I will put the covers on them, front and back, then when they come to room temp (at a minimum over night, I go for a couple of days) put the seal around them.
Thanks G3. That may be a good way to go.
Cheers
Les
Dang Les, those turned out good. I liked they were all filled out not just the middles. Question did you do these on a queenless hive?
No Bill. The biggest mistake I made was having a double brood box. The bees back filled the top brood box before starting on the Ross Rounds.
Any kind of comb cassettes require a very strong flow and crowding. The classic move is a cut down split to get them crowded while preventing them from swarming.
http://bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#cutdown
The best book I know of on comb honey is this:
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/honey-in-the-comb-eugene-killion/1003009956?ean=9781614761013
It is the one recommended by Lloyd Spears who makes Ross Rounds.