I'm planning my first ever oxalic acid vaporizer (sublimator for you much more correctly phrased Brits) treatment. .30WCF was generous enough to send me his old wand, since he recently upgraded. (Thanks again, 30! :happy:) I'm trying to purchase a respirator and some goggles, which of course in this COVID world is proving somewhat challenging both for an excess of options and prices and limited availability. I'm currently thinking about a half-face mask from 3M and some protective goggles. I wear eyeglasses, so I'd need to be sure it would work to wear them with my respirator and goggles. Do any of you who do OAV wear eyeglasses, and how does it affect the fit of your PPE? Secondly, it seems that most protective goggles have vents to prevent them fogging up. Are these safe enough when the goal is to protect your eyes from the oxalic vapor?
Member,
Bee sure to get one that has the canisters on it that are replaceable and has a nose and mouth seal. I just use my regular glasses. As long as I have the mask on I never had any problems.
Jim Altmiller
Reagan I use a car painting 'respirator' sold by Harbor Freight, I can not smell any inkling of acid when wearing these mask . They are designed to filter out even harmful isocyanate fumes which are very harmful and found in some car paints. This might not be the correct mask for OAV but I am confident..
Phillip
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on January 07, 2022, 05:18:15 PM
Member,
Bee sure to get one that has the canisters on it that are replaceable and has a nose and mouth seal. I just use my regular glasses. As long as I have the mask on I never had any problems.
Jim Altmiller
This is basically the description of the design I use Jim.
I use a half face 3M 6000 series mask and these filters, 3M 60923. With all the testing of units that I do they work very well and do not leak on my face. My mask is the 6300 which is large. 6100 and 6200 are small and large respectively. I wear any kind of eye protection.
Thanks for the recommendations. Rast, that's the exact mask I was looking at, so I'll definitely get that one.
Thank you, and you?re welcome.
How many hives are you treating?
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Quote from: .30WCF on January 22, 2022, 01:23:45 AM
Thank you, and you?re welcome.
How many hives are you treating?
Four. I would have liked to have treated them already, but my one of my sisters goats just had 4 kids, so we've been busy dealing with them. The only piece of the puzzle I'm missing is a battery, which I have to talk to my dad about. I have no idea how to buy car battery. :embarassed: Hopefully I can get my hands on that this upcoming week. I had a warmer day or two last week where the bees were flying and some were orienting. I wonder if that means I have some brood already. Does anyone know if orienting in winter means brood rearing has started? Or do bees who have been cooped up for a while in the cold reorient when the weather turns nice again?
Was it orientation or cleansing if they have been cooped up for a little while?
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Quote from: .30WCF on January 22, 2022, 11:59:29 AM
Was it orientation or cleansing if they have been cooped up for a little while?
I guess it could be just cleansing. Some bees were definitely circling the hive. Do bees circle on a cleansing flight?
The15thMemberQuoteDoes anyone know if orienting in winter means brood rearing has started?
They make cleansing flights in winter when the weather permits. Also you have spoken recently of your bees bringing in pollen. Incoming Pollen stimulates laying by the queen from my understanding.
Phillip
I would guess that they just kinda fly around close by and drop a duce.
If it is orientation, then last week?s orientation flights might have been eggs from early December before it really cooled off. Wouldn?t they be nurses first?
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Quote from: Ben Framed on January 22, 2022, 12:41:47 PM
They make cleansing flights in winter when the weather permits. Also you have spoken recently of your bees bringing in pollen. Incoming Pollen stimulates laying by the queen from my understanding.
Phillip
That's the other thing that was making me wonder.
Quote from: .30WCF on January 22, 2022, 12:54:47 PM
I would guess that they just kinda fly around close by and drop a duce.
If it is orientation, then last week?s orientation flights might have been eggs from early December before it really cooled off. Wouldn?t they be nurses first?
That's true, they could just be babies from before Christmas who are just getting out now. I think they would be nurses first, but if there is little or no brood in the hive, they'd move up to forager rapidly.
Mature winter bees of the hive will take cleansing flights on days when the weather will allow. If is warm enough I have noticed they will get out and forage as you found your bees were successful in bringing in pollen just before the weather made the hard turn downward. December is the time of the lowest level of brood in my area. That has a great influence of why many treat with OAV in December, getting the most bang for the buck so to speak, for mite killing when brood is at its lowest levels and numbers of the year.
As for you noticing winter pollen, I had a youtube pop us notice that David at Barnyard Bees posted a video of 16 hours ago titled "Where does all the winter pollen come from". I have not watched the video, (yet), to see what his thoughts are about it.
Phillip
Quote from: Ben Framed on January 22, 2022, 02:26:10 PM
Mature winter bees of the hive will take cleansing flights on days when the weather will allow. If is warm enough I have noticed they will get out and forage as you found your bees were successful in bringing in pollen just before the weather made the hard turn downward. December is the time of the lowest level of brood in my area. That has a great influence of why many treat with OAV in December, getting the most bang for the buck so to speak, for mite killing when brood is at its lowest levels and numbers of the year.
I'm not exactly sure when I have the lowest brood. I often put my hives to bed for the winter in November with several still having a small brood nest, and when I open the up the first time in March, they are usually all well on their way to a significant brood area. I've never had the opportunity to check between those dates. It's something I'd love to answer with an observation hive.
Quote from: Ben Framed on January 22, 2022, 02:26:10 PM
As for you're noticing winter pollen, I had a youtube pop us notice that David at Barnyard Bees posted a video of 16 hours ago titled "Where does all the winter pollen come from". I have not watched the video, (yet), to see what his thoughts are about it.
Phillip
How convenient! Go ahead and post the link if it has good information.
QuoteBen Framed
December is the time of the lowest level of brood in my area. That has a great influence of why many treat with OAV in December, getting the most bang for the buck so to speak, for mite killing when brood is at its lowest levels and numbers of the year.
Reagan I think it is because of, or has something to do with the Winter Solstice?
"i.e." the shortness of days?
Phillip
PS. Since I have not viewed the video, I sent the link to you in a PM.
Member,
If you need a battery, there is no need to buy a brand new one. Go to one of those auto junk yards and see it f they sell the batteries they removed from the cars they salvage. A shop near me sells any battery they have for $48. Pick the biggest one that you can handle. Make sure it has a strap to make it easy for carrying.
Jim Altmiller
No need for a big battery either. I like the smaller ones that just get used for battery backups on some of the electrical systems we put in. The one I was using might weigh less than 10 lbs and will do your 4 hives no problem.
I believe it?s a 12volt 20ah (20 amp hour) battery.
Here is a similar one. It?s 18ah, which kind of means that it will deliver one amp for 18 hours?ish.
I just looked around and couldn?t find out how many amps that wand draws, but your only running it 10 minutes in 2-1/2 minute increments for the 4 hives that you have. It will do just fine, it?s rechargeable, weighs a few pounds and is $35.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Mighty-Max-Battery-Mighty-Max-SLA-Rechargeable-Sealed-Lead-Acid-12180-Backup-Power-Batteries/1001107752?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-hdw-_-ggl-_-PLA_HDW_214_Auto-Batteries-_-1001107752-_-online-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W-PCUKT40dvgCvaUa06c_xsL&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W-PCUKT40dvgCvaUa06c_xsL&gclid=CjwKCAiA866PBhAYEiwANkIneLN_-fN8tdxFpJFkKGnrvtpuD31ois43RGmdDpCY-REpcyX0MI2ekhoCO8EQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
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I use 2 options when running my oav, I have a generator on the back of my truck, and an inverter inside my truck both work well.
Thanks for the tips on the batteries, guys. I'll see what my dad wants to do.
Quote from: The15thMember on January 23, 2022, 12:48:23 PM
Thanks for the tips on the batteries, guys. I'll see what my dad wants to do.
I did uses batteries at one time but after a while I decided they were just to heavy carry around.
Quote from: Brian MCquilkin on January 23, 2022, 04:39:41 AM
I use 2 options when running my oav, I have a generator on the back of my truck, and an inverter inside my truck both work well.
I am assuming yours works off of 110 instead not 12v? If so, same here. Mine is homemade. Sort of a cross between the $499.00 jobs and a johnO. If needed in the future I was thinking I could do as Member, use a 12v battery with a 110 inverter. A two wheel dolly would be a handy way to move the battery for a situation where access by vehicle was not possible during rainy times and wet fields.
Though not under those circumstances, I have used a power inverter for this purpose before... works great....
Phillip
Brian it seems you and I were posting at the same time lol.
Quote from: Ben Framed on January 23, 2022, 02:53:23 PM
Quote from: Brian MCquilkin on January 23, 2022, 04:39:41 AM
I use 2 options when running my oav, I have a generator on the back of my truck, and an inverter inside my truck both work well.
I am assuming yours works off of 110 instead not 12v? If so, same here. Mine is homemade. Sort of a cross between the $499.00 jobs and a johnO. If needed in the future I was thinking I could do as Member, use a 12v battery with a 110 inverter. A two wheel dolly would be a handy way to move the battery for a situation where access by vehicle was not possible during rainy times and wet fields.
Though not under those circumstances, I have used a power inverter for this purpose before... works great....
Phillip
The generator can handle 110v and 220v stays on the truck, the inverter I can connect to the trucks battery, It has alligator clips on it so I can use it with any vehicle easy breezy.
She just needs 12vdc for the wand.
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Quote from: .30WCF on January 23, 2022, 05:48:43 PM
She just needs 12vdc for the wand.
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Some use use 12V Im using the pro ProVap it uses 110V
10-4. I was just clarifying for the OP as to not confuse her on her first attempt, that she specifically needs 12vdc.
If she likes the results of the OA, I would imagine that she upgrades in a year or two.
I can bang out 8 hives in under 8 minutes with a 120v oxyvap and just come back later and pull the rags and put the cooled down unit away. It?s no comparison to the wand. The 12v wand is a gateway drug. Nothing wrong with it, but I can spend a day piddling around with the bees and it?s enjoyable. For some reason I want to be done treating them as quickly as possible. It just doesn?t carry the same pleasure in time spent with the bees after the 3rd dose of the 8th treatment cycle.
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Reagan If you can't reach the bees by car or truck to jump from their battery, you should be able to get the job done with a riding lawnmower or an ATV, jumping to the 12v battery power source.. As 30 pointed out, your mechanism doesn't need a big 12v battery. Also, a riding lawnmower or ATV with a pull behind trailer would also be handy for transporting heavier things back and forth to your bee area as well. (Supers and woodware etc)....
Phillip
Quote from: Ben Framed on January 28, 2022, 04:46:32 PM
Reagan If you can't reach the bees by car or truck to jump from their battery, you should be able to get the job done with a riding lawnmower or an ATV, jumping to the 12v battery power source.. As 30 pointed out, your mechanism doesn't need a big 12v battery. Also, a riding lawnmower or ATV with a pull behind trailer would also be handy for transporting heavier things back and forth to your bee area as well. (Supers and woodware etc)....
Phillip
I actually can't get a mower or ATV up to where my hives are. They are up on a hill behind our garage, and there are steps cut into the bank or I couldn't get up there either.
I purchased the battery that 30 recommended today. My dad also thought it seemed like a good one, so I shopped around a little bit, and Lowes did indeed have the best price. My local store unfortunately doesn't carry it, so I had it shipped, and it should be here on or before Feb. 7. I got my half-mask fitted today, and I also found a pair of goggles that works well with the mask and my glasses, so once the battery gets here, I'll be set. Thanks for all the help everyone, and I'll let you know how it goes.
Been using a 12 volt wand now for about four years with a battery and can treat a hive in about five minutes which is just fine for my little yard. Just started my first set of treatments for 2022 and tried something a little different for power. I hooked up a 12 amp battery charger to the battery I was using for the wand to prevent any power drop as I move from hive to hive. It worked great and cut about a minute off OAV treatment time for each hive. Having the yard behind the shop makes it easy to run an extension cord to it. I tried to run the wand directly off the battery charger which worked but doing that was running the charger at it's maximum output which didn't seem to be a good idea so I added the battery for it's extra power.
I use a hand drawn cart to move the battery and gear around the yard. It comes in handy to transport supers and honey boxes back and forth during the year and is better than a wheel barrow.
If your battery gets delayed, and you don?t want to pull a battery out of something for an hour, I?m sure pops could rig you up something with an extension cord.
I have been known to just stick wires in an extension cord from time to time, but that?s not safe. And you wouldn?t want to confuse yourself and plug your wand into the wall, but?
A set of alligator clamps on a battery in a vehicle or whatever hooked to a replacement female cord end. Plug a cord into that, up the hill to a piece of wood with two bolts in it. Bolts rigged to a male cord end. Camps on wand to bolts.
Or you could just cut and splice the wire as long as you needed it to be. I like to keep things complicated though.
You should never do this. It?s a terrible idea, but if you did do it, it would work.
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Quote from: .30WCF on January 31, 2022, 11:46:54 PM
If your battery gets delayed, and you don?t want to pull a battery out of something for an hour, I?m sure pops could rig you up something with an extension cord.
I have been known to just stick wires in an extension cord from time to time, but that?s not safe. And you wouldn?t want to confuse yourself and plug your wand into the wall, but?
A set of alligator clamps on a battery in a vehicle or whatever hooked to a replacement female cord end. Plug a cord into that, up the hill to a piece of wood with two bolts in it. Bolts rigged to a male cord end. Camps on wand to bolts.
Or you could just cut and splice the wire as long as you needed it to be. I like to keep things complicated though.
You should never do this. It?s a terrible idea, but if you did do it, it would work.
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Thanks, I think? :cheesy: I think I'll play it safe and wait it out for the battery, and save the electrocuting,
I mean electrical work, for you DIYers. :wink: I know I'm cutting it a little close with brood rearing starting, but this is just way to far out there for me. All great ideas are sketched out on napkins though, so I wouldn't give up on it automatically. :grin: Also I prefer to do my time traveling Waverider style, rather than with a DeLorean. :cool:
It's amazing what you can use an extension cord for. I wired my shop stereo speakers using a couple 100 footers but had to cut off the ends to wire them in. When I worked construction a buddy would use them as a safety rope when working on a roof. LOL
Quote from: Beeboy01 on February 01, 2022, 11:15:46 AM
It's amazing what you can use an extension cord for. I wired my shop stereo speakers using a couple 100 footers but had to cut off the ends to wire them in. When I worked construction a buddy would use them as a safety rope when working on a roof. LOL
What's the weight rating on an extension cord? :cheesy:
Hey, while I've got you guys on the line, (ha, no pun intended! :cheesy:), if I have sugar balls in these hives as emergency feed, should I remove that when I do the treatment? Does it matter if the bees eat any oxalic that precipitates onto the sugar? Or does it break down fast enough that it's not a problem?
Well, I did it! The treatment went really well, it was really easy, and I didn't inhale any toxic fumes, so we should be good to go! :cheesy: Seriously though, I had no troubles with the wand or the respirator, just in and out of the hives, super simple. I can't believe I didn't consider OAV before now; it just seemed like so many moving parts compared to FormicPro or ApiLife Var, but honestly the thing that took the longest was just getting my respirator fitted. I'm super happy with how it went. Now we'll just have to see the how the results end up where the mites are concerned.
Glad you liked it. It?s pretty effective. If you have a screen bottom, you can pull the board out tomorrow and look at the mite drop.
If you think they are starting back with brood, which they probably are, you should hit them again in 4-5 days. If there is a ton of brood, it?s 3-4 doses, 4-5 days apart. My maples are starting to bloom, so there is nectar, and there have been a few days warm enough to fly. Jut don?t forget to pull the honey if you treat and want to eat the honey.
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Quote from: .30WCF on February 14, 2022, 07:35:10 PM
Glad you liked it. It?s pretty effective. If you have a screen bottom, you can pull the board out tomorrow and look at the mite drop.
If you think they are starting back with brood, which they probably are, you should hit them again in 4-5 days. If there is a ton of brood, it?s 3-4 doses, 4-5 days apart. My maples are starting to bloom, so there is nectar, and there have been a few days warm enough to fly. Jut don?t forget to pull the honey if you treat and want to eat the honey.
Thanks for the reminders, and I was wondering if maybe I should hit them again, so I'll probably do another round on Saturday. My maples are budded and a few are
just barely starting to open, so we're a little bit behind you here at higher elevation.