I had some old frames i cut the wax foundation out and , having a bit of time, decided to melt the foundation to recover the wax.
A waste of time.
I have a great wax melter but the amount of wax I got out of the frames was not worth the time or electricty. The little wax I did recover will need more processing.
What is the experience other beekeeprs have with recovering old foundations?
Hi Max
I do this regularly. I steam the frames 10 at a time. The steaming kills any wax moth eggs, small hive beetle etc and softens the old cocoons which makes for an easy frame cleanup. I normally get just over 1 kg of good, clean yellow wax from every 10 frames that I steam. This wax is then used to make more foundation to place into the empty frames. This process is quite slow so I normally do other work in conjunction with the steaming. Eg retensioning wires, adding foundation to cleaned frames etc.
Cheers
Les
I also do this on a regular basis form all of the cut outs I do.
To keep it simple and on the cheap a solar wax melter is what I use.
It does a pretty good job, I just keep stiring up the old cocoons and a little more wax seems to come out.
The process I use is simple put it in the solar wax melter and throw the old scum onto the garden compost pile.
Thanks for the ideas.
Les - what do you mean by "Steam cleaning"?
I use a wax melter with good success for cappings but for old frames with wax - simply not worth the effort.
I place old frames with wax in the freezer for 24 hrs, cut out the wax which then very brittle and the place them in the wax melter - it is pretty well steam too.
max
Hi max
I build a fire in my fire pit and then sit an old beer keg on top. The keg has water in it and generates the steam. I then take the steam via 30mm stainless tube and dump it into a container that holds 10 frames. The steam melts the wax and it runs out the bottom. I?ll see if I can find a photo of the unit in action.
Cheers
Les
Not the best photo in the world. I just had to grab it from a YouTube clip I made a few years ago.
[attachment=0][/attachment]
Quote from: max2 on February 13, 2022, 08:52:00 PM
I had some old frames i cut the wax foundation out and , having a bit of time, decided to melt the foundation to recover the wax.
A waste of time.
I have a great wax melter but the amount of wax I got out of the frames was not worth the time or electricty. The little wax I did recover will need more processing.
What is the experience other beekeeprs have with recovering old foundations?
What a person with only 3 hives or so.. Most likely it's not worth it... I know for me I used to get a lot... Of junk honeycomb And capping's.. From people With just a few hives. At the county beekeeping club that I belong to... Yes they kept the junk honeycomb away from the capping's.. I know it worked out well for me... Add a couple of medium size solar wax melder's.. Approximately 3' by 4'.... Yes I was running at least 20 to 30 beehives in production.. And approximately 15 to 20 nucs.. Along with a lot of split.. Swarms of bees I caught.. Total number of units 50 +..
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
Try soaking old comb in water first, that way the cocoons do not absorb as much wax. Old comb also makes excellent fire starter.
Very old brood comb contains very little normally recoverable wax.
A friend who used to contract clean frames would cut out the comb, put it in a hessian sac, stack them in a 44 gallon drum and steam them.
the steamed sacks were then pressed to remove all the wax.
My opinion, the comb makes good garden compost, worms love it
Max I have posted a method here a couple times, (video), of some Asian beekeepers using a home built wax (melter / press) that looks to absolutely, salvage every bit of wax that is salvageable.
When a very small amount old brood comb is the factor all methods mentioned may be worth 'your' time and effort as an individual.
But for me and my needs; The bottom line is I tend to agree with Jim 134s' statement in reply number 7. However I do not wish to discourage you.
Phillip
QuoteJim 134
What a person with only 3 hives or so.. Most likely it's not worth it
I agree about the comb being loved by worms. After steaming, all old comb goes to my gardens or the worm farms. My thinking is that the combs must be full of nutrients and trace elements. Not sure if I agree with you on the wax in old brood combs. I average just over 100 grams of clean wax per comb. I suppose that?s not much but it is definitely worth retrieving.
Les that is a handy setup that you posted. I like it.. It looks to work similar to the system that Tim Rowe uses except Tim actually uses the super box itself as the frame holders. That way they can be stacked enabling wax, (bur comb etc) inside the box wall and box area to be melted and cleaned as well. Tim seemed to thinks this will sterilize the box. This theory has been discussed here and the general analyst is AFB would still survive the scorching of the steam. I confess that I really don't know.(yet another subject). If any who visits this and wishes to discuss it, may I suggest we do it on the old topic, or start a new topic, keeping this one on track...
Thanks,
Phillip
QuoteI average just over 100 grams of clean wax per comb. I suppose that?s not much but it is definitely worth retrieving.
That is grand Les. 100 grams is about 3.5 ounces. Not bad for old black brood comb....
Thanks to all of you.
Great photo and system you got, Les.
I safe all the cappings. Actually, a friend of mine picks up my cappings and washes them to make mead. He also removes all the propolis and uses it to make some tinctures.
I get the cappings back quite clean and then melt it down. I get very clean wax which i use for tealights which I sell at the local markets.
With the price of beeswax going through the roof i just wanted to try getting something out of old frames but with my method it is not worth it.
Compost/garden maybe the place for mine.
Mind you, I'm tempted to to try Les's steam cleaning but were will I put another gadget...?
max
Quote from: Ben Framed on February 14, 2022, 06:30:19 PM
Les that is a handy setup that you posted. I like it.. It looks to work similar to the system that Tim Rowe uses except Tim actually uses the super box itself as the frame holders. That way they can be stacked enabling wax, (bur comb etc) inside the box wall and box area to be melted and cleaned as well. Tim seemed to thinks this will sterilize the box. This theory has been discussed here and the general analyst is AFB would still survive the scorching of the steam. I confess that I really don't know.(yet another subject). If any who visits this and wishes to discuss it, may I suggest we do it on the old topic, or start a new topic, keeping this one on track...
Thanks,
Phillip
For those who may be interested in Les steam wax melter here is the link where we discussed the 'possablities' of sterilization back in May 2020, with steam. It was an interesting discussion in my opinion.
Here is the link name and a brief explanation of the link:
"Steam Cleaning Your Woodware Equipment"Reply #3 on: May 26, 2020, 09:54:37 am
Explanation:
"I did not word that correctly. My apologies. I should have ask if anyone uses Tim's method of wax melting and 'sterilizing' with steam.."
Phillip
If there is a link in reply 15 ..I do not see at :wink:
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
Quote from: Jim 134 on February 14, 2022, 08:40:13 PM
If there is a link in reply 15 ..I do not see at :wink:
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
Jim just copy "Steam Cleaning Your Woodware Equipment" then paste in the search bar above. The topic will pop up,, click on it and you will be there....
Home Help Search Profile My Messages Members Logout
Phillip
Thank you it did .. Lead me to YouTube. Video.. A friend of mine made a very similar wax melter... This was sometime in the late.. 1970s... He was from Western Massachusetts... When I meet him..He was a stationary beekeeper... Just a sideline with about 300 colonies.. This was back in the priestoric days.. He was a A I Root.. Dealer for bee supplies.. Thank you for reminding me of him... Have a great day...
https://youtu.be/Wzkxq7qGqxQ
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
Jim 134. It is nice to know that topic lead you back to some good memories of your beekeeping days past! Makes me feel good for you. I enjoy hearing of folks and methods of days past. Thanks for sharing that story!
The conversation in the topic,"Steam Cleaning Your Woodware Equipment", was interesting concerning wax melting, but also evolved into the possibilities of sterilization. Their was some pretty good discussion there in my opinion... Thanks for posting the video from that older topic Jim 134. Maybe some of our newer members will enjoy it.
Phillip
Jim 134 as an added note of interest concerning the video and its maker; Tim Rowe is the 'inventor' of "The Rose Hive" and has written beekeeping books. He is quiet the thinker, the doer, and the inventor. Not only in beekeeping but other subjects as well. Kind of reminds me of 'Lesgold' in that sort of way..
Phillip
The USA had a hive similar to this... I believe it was Built-in the 1920.. It was used a lot in the North and South Dakota.. And it was 7 1/2 inches deep.. What they were looking for is a one Box only hive... This was in direct competition... What's the Illinois Is super.. Which at the time Dadant was making.. 6 5/8 "
Dadant Bet out this hive with this Box .. My 1st mentor told my history I believe it was around it's the round 1960 or so... Every once in a while.. I used to hear them showing up as nucs colonial.. The last one I heard about was about 25 years ago.. And beekeepers complained about the wrong size frames... Of course all commercial beekeepers... In the USA went with deep With 9 frames stretched out into a 10 frame Box boxes... The Rose hive is still sold this day and Great Britain... The last time I checked was probably 3 years ago.. I look it up it's not available anymore from Great Britain. Who knows they could be using a different supply.. To sell the Rose hive now :sad:
https://www.thorne.co.uk/about-us/download-our-catalogue
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
QuoteIt was used a lot in the North and South Dakota.. And it was 7 1/2 inches deep.. What they were looking for is a one Box only hive... This was in direct competition... What's the Illinois Is super..
I have heard of the Illinois box Jim. I guess it never really caught on cross country or internationally like Mediums and Deeps.
Quote from: Ben Framed on February 15, 2022, 01:15:00 PM
QuoteIt was used a lot in the North and South Dakota.. And it was 7 1/2 inches deep.. What they were looking for is a one Box only hive... This was in direct competition... What's the Illinois Is super..
I have heard of the Illinois box Jim. I guess it never really caught on cross country or internationally like Mediums and Deeps.
If you would like to own a 7 5/8" Box with frames... You can still buy them.. in the USA
https://westernbee.com/
The part number for the frames is WW722
The part number for the boxer is WW719WW719
One of Western bee's biggest woodware customers is Dadant beesupply.. The last company I knew that made wax foundation for this hive.. Was Walter T Kelley.. Who has gone out of business about 5 years ago..
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
I can see where this type box might have caught on, especially since it was only an inch deeper than a standard medium.
I wonder; if they had used a standard 1x8 if it might have made a difference in popularity since the true measurement of a standard 1" X 8" is actually (3/4 x 7 1/4) inches, only 3/8 difference in the Illinois box. If they had made it from the standard
(1x8) / (3/4 X 71/4), The box builder would not have had to rip the board to the proper width. The board would be standard width from the kiln saving a lot of ripping. (Just food for thought)....
Jim 134 did your friend use wood for a heat source while using the steam method during his wax melting? I see that Les uses wood as a heat source as well as does Tim Rowe, getting the water/steam plenty hot...
Phillip
The 7 5/8 box is used in Australia and is called a WSP.
They are a very good size for us mature BK's.
Now i look back and wish i had started with WSP supers and full depth brood box.
Quote from: Ben Framed on February 16, 2022, 01:27:46 AM
Jim 134 did your friend use wood for a heat source while using the steam method during his wax melting? I see that Les uses wood as a heat source as well as does Tim Rowe, getting the water/steam plenty hot...
Phillip
He used wood as a heat Source. He actually had an old oxygen tank.. Did you notice the small hole in the top of the tank along with the wooden Plug... This actually is the safety blow off valve.. In case the tank runs out of water..
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
QuoteHe used wood as a heat Source. He actually had an old oxygen tank.. Did you notice the small hole in the top of the tank along with the wooden Plug... This actually is the safety blow off valve.. In case the tank runs out of water..
I did notice that Jim 134. Probably the most important part of the whole operation.... It serves a two part necessity. He used a wood plug in that hole as a relief valve, "blow off valve" in case of great pressure building up to a dangerous level in the tank and box area, reaching a point of 'possible explosion'. "Steam power"
The wood plug serves as a relief valve as well as a refill water hole. I am glad you noticed and mentioned that simple, yet 'very' 'important' feature .. Thanks!
Phillip
Quote from: Oldbeavo on February 16, 2022, 02:59:57 AM
The 7 5/8 box is used in Australia and is called a WSP.
They are a very good size for us mature BK's.
Now i look back and wish i had started with WSP supers and full depth brood box.
Thanks Oldbeavo, I may eventually someday wish the same; 'look back and wish i had started with WSP/Illinois supers and full depth brood box.'
:smile:
Phillip
Quote from: Jim 134 on February 15, 2022, 06:22:43 AM
The USA had a hive similar to this... I believe it was Built-in the 1920.. It was used a lot in the North and South Dakota.. And it was 7 1/2 inches deep.. What they were looking for is a one Box only hive... This was in direct competition... What's the Illinois Is super.. Which at the time Dadant was making.. 6 5/8 "
Dadant Bet out this hive with this Box .. My 1st mentor told my history I believe it was around it's the round 1960 or so... Every once in a while.. I used to hear them showing up as nucs colonial.. The last one I heard about was about 25 years ago.. And beekeepers complained about the wrong size frames... Of course all commercial beekeepers... In the USA went with deep With 9 frames stretched out into a 10 frame Box boxes... The Rose hive is still sold this day and Great Britain... The last time I checked was probably 3 years ago.. I look it up it's not available anymore from Great Britain. Who knows they could be using a different supply.. To sell the Rose hive now :sad:
https://www.thorne.co.uk/about-us/download-our-catalogue
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
It looks like I made a mistake... You can find a Rose Hive On pay 13.. On the link I supplied for for their catalog 2021.. :oops:
The same company that sells. The Rose Hive also sells a book. On the use of a Rose Hive.. You can see it on page 74
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
Jim, Tim has a YouTube channel that is titled: Way Out West - Workshop Stuff and another one titled: WAY OUT WEST with Sandra and Tim . Both are interesting.
Phillip
PS Tim and Sandra are very nice folks. I have never had a question or comment that they have failed to answer .