Marley will be having 2 packages I purchased for her coming next month. I wanted her to experience installing a package.
With that being said we will be using all mediums for her. She has problems manipulating deep frames. As I have never done this before and know a few here do my questions are as follows.
1) Are 2 mediums the same as 1 deep?
2) What is the difference in swarming issues.
I realize we will need medium drawn comb, not an issue, but we will have no med. brood upon install to hold them home. Could I use 2 deep frames in the center of 2 mediums?
I know this sounds kinda beginerish, but beginerish it is.
Thanks to any that give feedback it will all be taken, digested, and worked thru.
Bill
After reading through the minutia on the forums here is my plan.
start 2, 10 frame mediums 10 frames drawn comb. 3 frames of foundation , 2 frames deep with open brood , 1 medium feeder in the upper med. box.
QuoteBill Murray
1) Are 2 mediums the same as 1 deep?
Bill personally I have not done the math nor do I use mediums. I was waiting on someone who does use mediums to speak up. I have read that three medium boxes is closely related to 2 deeps where bee space is concerned. If Marley is very young/small you might even consider using shallows?
3 mediums = 2 deeps
so 2 mediums = 1 1/2 deeps
If you want brood to keep the new packages anchored, why don't you put a couple drawn medium frames in the broodnest of your current hives. The queen should lay it full within a week or so. That way you won't have to deal with deep frames in your medium boxes. They can be a pain to remove and work with because they will be the center of the broodnest.
They could be installed in one medium but since you will be using a frame feeder, I would use two boxes. I would put the drawn comb in the bottom box with the medium frames of brood. The foundation would go in the top box with the feeder.
What depth are mediums?
We use some "Ideals" which to give you a reference, 5 equal 3 full depths. so they are about 6" in depth
Don't make it complicated. If it is a install just install the bees in one box of mediums. If you have drawn medium frames then use 2 boxes. Keep an eye on progression and stay ahead of their progress.
Bill,
I would do as Coa. Put a medium frame in the brood nest of ten hives and then when the 2 packages arrive you will have five brood frames for both hives. This would bee a great start for her hives and lock them in real good.
Jim Altmiller
Thank you cao, that was pretty simple I dont know why I was stuck on the deeps and not going the other route with the mediums. that was just to simple and easy. But thats why discussion is good.
QuoteIf Marley is very young/small you might even consider using shallows?
I have a few, and actually kicked that idea around, but then thought about the amount of boxes and frames involved, didnt want to get it so labor intensive she would lose the enjoyment of it.
QuoteDon't make it complicated. If it is a install just install the bees in one box of mediums.
The complicated part was because I was brain locked. The brood frames are installed to keep the bees in the box.
Quote2 mediums = 1 1/2 deeps
Thanks for this also. I was just judging didnt do the math. That was so she could visualize what she should have in relation to deeps, which is what she knows at this point.
Thanks again for the comments much appreciated.
I remember seeing pictures of Marley on the Beefest thread; I'm super excited for her to get her own bees! :grin: I have always used all 8-frame mediums, so I can't speak to the comparison with deeps, but I highly recommend all mediums for weak-armed individuals like myself. :smile: You will doubtless be familiar with this if you use mediums in your current operation for honey supers, but just in case you only use deeps, a medium full of honey is still extremely heavy, so she may need some help come supering time managing heavy honey boxes. If she'd rather be able to do all the lifting herself, shallows may be a better way to go, or at least shallow supers.
Quote from: Bill Murray on February 27, 2022, 10:15:23 PM
2) What is the difference in swarming issues.
Could you elaborate on this question a little bit? I'm not sure what would be different between swarming hives that are in deeps vs. mediums.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on February 28, 2022, 05:02:00 AM
What depth are mediums?
We use some "Ideals" which to give you a reference, 5 equal 3 full depths. so they are about 6" in depth
Mediums are 6 5/8 in. deep.
It was just kinda me thinking about how fast a box of bees here can go from 0 to swarm in no time. Granted I do help them get to that point, but basically my assumption now is that if she runs 3 mediums as the brood boxes she will be able to keep up with bee growth/nest congestion.
Quote from: Bill Murray on February 28, 2022, 11:19:18 AM
It was just kinda me thinking about how fast a box of bees here can go from 0 to swarm in no time. Granted I do help them get to that point, but basically my assumption now is that if she runs 3 mediums as the brood boxes she will be able to keep up with bee growth/nest congestion.
I think that sounds reasonable. My colonies, which are in 8-frame mediums as opposed to 10-frames, usually have 2 to 3 boxes of brood.
Quote from: The15thMember on February 28, 2022, 10:28:17 PM
Quote from: Bill Murray on February 28, 2022, 11:19:18 AM
It was just kinda me thinking about how fast a box of bees here can go from 0 to swarm in no time. Granted I do help them get to that point, but basically my assumption now is that if she runs 3 mediums as the brood boxes she will be able to keep up with bee growth/nest congestion.
I think that sounds reasonable. My colonies, which are in 8-frame mediums as opposed to 10-frames, usually have 2 to 3 boxes of brood.
I had all mediums for a while and 3 of them for brood chambers, worked out great
Quote from: Bill Murray on February 28, 2022, 09:48:44 AM
The brood frames are installed to keep the bees in the box.
A package has a very weak swarm impulse normally. I would deem a package that swarms does not have desirable genetics for beekeeping.
Quote from: Bill Murray on February 28, 2022, 11:19:18 AM
It was just kinda me thinking about how fast a box of bees here can go from 0 to swarm in no time. Granted I do help them get to that point, but basically my assumption now is that if she runs 3 mediums as the brood boxes she will be able to keep up with bee growth/nest congestion.
Three mediums is too much to guard for an install. If you don't use a QE the colony will decide how many boxes they use for brood.
Quote from: Acebird on March 02, 2022, 08:15:09 AM
Three mediums is too much to guard for an install. If you don't use a QE the colony will decide how many boxes they use for brood.
I agree, I'd install a package into 2 mediums.
I run 8 frame boxes. For brood it's 1 deep, 1 medium then qe and honey above them. Works ok generally. I'm also trying out a horizontal hive this year but for a package I'd do at least 2 mediums. In a good weather spring they'll outgrow a 1 medium box pretty quick.
Very informative discussion. Thank you all for adding to my education.
Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
Quote from: Mamm7215 on March 02, 2022, 04:20:30 PM
For brood it's 1 deep, 1 medium then qe and honey above them.
If you mix sizes for brood you have to have more equipment on hand. No big deal for a commercial opp but it is a pain for a hobbyist. You could just run two deeps and the bees will decide if they want to fill all of the bottom one.
How big, weight/ volume is a package of bees?
I have never bought one.
Quote from: Oldbeavo on March 03, 2022, 04:56:22 PM
How big, weight/ volume is a package of bees?
I have never bought one.
They are usually 2 or 3 lbs. of bees. Here's a picture if you have never seen one.
[attachment=0][/attachment]
Good pic. The important thing is how many dead at the bottom.
I use all mediums. Soooo much simpler.
As a brood "box," I just don't want to handle/inspect more than two medium boxes. 20 frames of capped brood at a time - whew! Thirty is too much for me, been there, done that. After spring, the swarm impulse appears to be manageable at 2 mediums + a slatted rack underneath.
For honey, I use a QX on top the second box and 9 frames instead of 10 in the medium hive body above the QX.
This is a nice arrangement too, since I harvest mostly comb honey. I have been getting 4 1-lb cuts from each frame. If they are doing well but not capping frames, I'll add a second super. I use a 1" top entrance (Imirie shim). It's hot here in NW FFlorida.
This has been a good thread for me to read as I will be using 8-frame mediums for 1 hive and 1 8-frame deep with medium 8-frames on the other. So, I?m glad to read that there are others out there using mediums and 8-frames. I?m a smallish person and in my mid-sixties, so wanted to keep the size and weight of the boxes down.
Quote from: Rise and Shine on April 03, 2022, 09:04:03 PM
1 8-frame deep with medium 8-frames on the other.
This works but you have the complexity of different size equipment which limits your options as a small operator. Having one deep box is helpful for buying nuc's which are usually deep frames.
And it's helpful to be able to bring a MEDIUM frame of brood above the excluder into a MEDIUM box, to encourage the bees to work past the excluder.
Just make sure there's no drones/drone cells on that frame, or else be sure to let any drones out soon.
PS - RiseAndShine, a plastic excluder appears to cut their wings a bit. A metal excluder has smoother edges and doesn't appear to injure the house bees.
Update, 2 boxes worked like a champ for installation. I have a short clip of Marley installing will try to post tomorrow. Frames are being drawn out nicely, and queens are laying. This was a good experience for her. She said this is almost just like putting a swarm in a box.
Quote from: Bill Murray on April 07, 2022, 11:30:56 AM
Update, 2 boxes worked like a champ for installation. I have a short clip of Marley installing will try to post tomorrow. Frames are being drawn out nicely, and queens are laying. This was a good experience for her. She said this is almost just like putting a swarm in a box.
Hooray! I'm glad to hear that it worked out well for her. :happy:
>1) Are 2 mediums the same as 1 deep?
2 10-frame deeps = 3 10-frame mediums = 4 8-frame mediums = 2-1/2 8-frame deeps
or, the same thing put another way:
1 10-frame deeps = 1-1/2 10-frame mediums = 2 8-frame mediums = 1-1/4 8-frame deeps
>2) What is the difference in swarming issues.
It's all about adding boxes. No other differences. The good think is you can manage the space better because you don't have to add a ten frame deep every time, you ca add a fraction of that.