I just read a 2 page debated topic making sugar water mixing seem complicated; Titled: "How much sugar (by weight) is in my sugar syrup (by volume)?"
I simply add (X) volume of Sugar to the half way point of the container being used, topping it off with water until the container is filled to make what I have always assumed to be a 1-1 mix. What is your method of mixing 1-1 sugar water?
Phillip
https://www.honeybeesuite.com/sugar-syrup-ratios/
https://www.honeybeesuite.com/breaking-promise-revisiting-sugar-syrup-ratios/
I share Rusty's opinions on this topic. For almost every situation, it DOES NOT MATTER. Nectar in nature has wildly different ratios of sugar concentration, and the subtle different of weight vs. volume, or 2:1 vs. 5:3, or whatever else, is not important. Personally I take a gallon jug, pour a 4 lb. bag of sugar into it, because that looks to be roughly half full, and then I fill the rest up with water to make 1:1.
The only caveat here is for people who are making lots of syrup. By weight uses less syrup than by volume, so for commercial beekeepers who are making up gallons and gallons of it, by weight will be a monetary savings in sugar. But for the average hobbyist, it is not important.
QuotePersonally I take a gallon jug, pour a 4 lb. bag of sugar into it, because that looks to be roughly half full, and then I fill the rest up with water to make 1:1.
You and I are on the same line of thought per volume. I use 5 gallon buckets, sometimes 2 gallon buckets for the same results. I watched a video of a queen breeder who mixes 55 gallons at a time. His formula is basically like ours Member. He uses a trolling motor to do the mixing.
Phillip
By weight.
What matters are the purpose and the conditions of the feeding which guides the mix ratio. Thick vs thin syrup matters. Exact ratio does not.
Thin syrup is stimulating; it will drive brooding and wax building. In cool weather, thin syrup does not get used directly and is difficult for the bees to dry and process properly for storage. That causes lots of excess moisture in the hive leading to mold, fermentation, and drunk bees with bellyaches. By contrast in warm weather thin syrup creates alot of activity and seemingly cleaner healthier hives.
Thick syrup packs on the stores in cool weather to bulk up weight for winter or long dearth periods.
So yeah .. it depends ;) , perhaps that is why it seems complicated.
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on May 01, 2022, 01:07:23 PM
By weight
Ratio matters. The purpose and the conditions of the feeding guides the ratio. Thin syrup is stimulating; it will drive brooding and wax building. Thick syrup packs on stores. In cool weather, thin syrup does not get dried and processed properly. Causes lots of moisture in the hive leading to mold, fermentation, and drunk bees with bellyaches.
So yeah .. it depends ;)
Thanks HoneyPump I agree, ratio does matter for different purposes and seasons, depending on the intent of what is to be accomplished. I am giving an example of what I 'assume' to be a 1:1 mixture in this case, which I have found on other post to be debatable in formula.
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on May 01, 2022, 01:07:23 PM
What matters are the purpose and the conditions of the feeding which guides the mix ratio. Thick vs thin syrup matters. Exact ratio does not.
Thin syrup is stimulating; it will drive brooding and wax building. In cool weather, thin syrup does not get used directly and is difficult for the bees to dry and process properly for storage. That causes lots of excess moisture in the hive leading to mold, fermentation, and drunk bees with bellyaches. By contrast in warm weather thin syrup creates alot of activity and seemingly cleaner healthier hives.
Thick syrup packs on the stores in cool weather to bulk up weight for winter or long dearth periods.
So yeah .. it depends ;) , perhaps that is why it seems complicated.
I completely agree. Thick vs. thin is the only difference worth spending any significant time on.
If one wanted to be precise or optimal, when mixing large volumes, it is much simpler to ditch the weight vs volume debate and just use a Brix refractometer.
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on May 01, 2022, 01:26:48 PM
If one wanted to be precise or optimal, when mixing large volumes, it is much simpler to ditch the weight vs volume debate and just use a Brix refractometer.
Hey, that's true. I've never thought about that before.
For me it's just easier to go by volume and not weight. I always use 2:1 ratio. Bees need the carbs more than the water. We know the idea is that 1:1 is closer to nectar when in reality nectar is closer to 1:4. To me it's not about the thickness of the syrup in the spring but whether or not pollen is coming in at the same time. Pollen stimulates the increase in brood rearing in my area, not the ratio of water to sugar. Do a simple side by side comparison of hives with 2:1/1:1 in the spring. I never saw a difference.
Does anyone ever mix extra thick to prevent fermentation, then thin down to feed?
Quote from: beesnweeds on May 01, 2022, 03:06:12 PM
For me it's just easier to go by volume and not weight. I always use 2:1 ratio. Bees need the carbs more than the water. We know the idea is that 1:1 is closer to nectar when in reality nectar is closer to 1:4. To me it's not about the thickness of the syrup in the spring but whether or not pollen is coming in at the same time. Pollen stimulates the increase in brood rearing in my area, not the ratio of water to sugar. Do a simple side by side comparison of hives with 2:1/1:1 in the spring. I never saw a difference.
I've used 2:1 in the spring when I had some leftover from the previous fall, and I agree, I didn't notice any difference.
Quote from: BurleyBee on May 01, 2022, 03:11:51 PM
Does anyone ever mix extra thick to prevent fermentation, then thin down to feed?
I just don't know that it would be worth the time. I feed so rarely, that it definitely wouldn't be for me. I'd probably spend more time thinning 2:1 down to 1:1 than it would take me to just make 1:1, since the 1:1 syrup is really easy to get into solution.
Quote from: The15thMember on May 01, 2022, 04:47:21 PM
Quote from: beesnweeds on May 01, 2022, 03:06:12 PM
For me it's just easier to go by volume and not weight. I always use 2:1 ratio. Bees need the carbs more than the water. We know the idea is that 1:1 is closer to nectar when in reality nectar is closer to 1:4. To me it's not about the thickness of the syrup in the spring but whether or not pollen is coming in at the same time. Pollen stimulates the increase in brood rearing in my area, not the ratio of water to sugar. Do a simple side by side comparison of hives with 2:1/1:1 in the spring. I never saw a difference.
I've used 2:1 in the spring when I had some leftover from the previous fall, and I agree, I didn't notice any difference.
Quote from: BurleyBee on May 01, 2022, 03:11:51 PM
Does anyone ever mix extra thick to prevent fermentation, then thin down to feed?
I just don't know that it would be worth the time. I feed so rarely, that it definitely wouldn't be for me. I'd probably spend more time thinning 2:1 down to 1:1 than it would take me to just make 1:1, since the 1:1 syrup is really easy to get into solution.
Does anyone here know if the essential oils in HBH formula dissuade fermentation? (the formula 'without' Lemon Grass Oil)
Does anyone here know if the essential oils in HBH formula dissuade fermentation? (the formula 'without' Lemon Grass Oil)
It seems too, but I prefer to use bleach.
Tend to use thymol in syrups to prevent moulds/fermentation.
I make a 2000x stock at 20gms Thymol crystals dissolved in 100 ml of Isopropanol (or equivalent).
Add 0.5ml to each litre of syrup and it will last forever. I leave 5 litre containers of thin syrup in all out apiaries for when it's required and soem have been there for over a year and still good to go.
Thymol is also supposed to assist bees in preventing nosema.
You can use citric acid to prevent fermentation and mould growth. About 1/2 - 1 teaspoon in 10 liters. Tastes like weak lemonade.
Quote from: rast on May 02, 2022, 07:27:05 AM
Does anyone here know if the essential oils in HBH formula dissuade fermentation? (the formula 'without' Lemon Grass Oil)
It seems too, but I prefer to use bleach.
The HBH alternate which I use is ProHealth. ProHealth has some thymol in it. In mixing syrup use either of those supplements at half, or less, of the mix on the label if want the bees to actually take it in. As a rule I do not use HBH-ProH in syrup. I use it in protein patties.
For syrup, I use bleach. I have had 5 gal buckets of excess syrup stored over winter (7 months) with no mold or fermentation, with the bleach. The bees do seem to like the bleach as a -feeding stimulant-
https://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm