I've been popping the top to crush beetles in the corners and looking in the oil pan each day since installing bottom screen. Haven't found any living beetles in a few days but every day there are more in the oil pan, so I was starting to feel pretty good..
Today, I came home to dead bees and ants in front of the hive.. like enough to cover one side of a deep frame ... There were also 2 bees fighting on the ground. All but 2 of the bees on the landing porch looked small and way fewer than usual. The bees coming in looked full grown and in a hurry. As soon as they land, they scurry inside. They weren't being challenged at all from what I saw.
The number of bees crawling on top of the frames etc was a lot less than usual. I did not pull any frames.
Did not find any wax in the oil pan. Just beetles and what looks like pollen.
Did not see bees leaving that looked like they were "flying heavy" .. they weren't dipping after they took off, anyway.
Today's high was only 96 but no wind and humid so heat index was 113
They haven't been as active in the past few days and there seem to be less flowers blooming so maybe in a dearth period.
pictures I took are too big to post except one of the top of the frames showing how few bees were on top .. The hive is a 10 frame with 9 frames in it. For some reason, they didn't like one of the frames and built comb on the frames next to it really thick and were connecting those combs to the empty frame in a couple of spots. I cut the empty frame loose and removed it, pushed the thick frames together until the bees started making "WE ARE IRRITATED" noises, and backed it off until they started settling down (maybe backed off 1/8" at most) It is just a deep box. I had a shallow super on it, but they were ignoring it and hadn't fully filled the bottom box yet. The super seemed like more places to hide for beetles, so I took it back off
Should I close this hive (assuming with 1/8" hardware cloth) for a couple of days and reopen with a robbing screen ?
Install a robbing screen rather than closing it off first ?
Look for other bee-killing things ? ? like ?
Here's a thread with instructions for several different ways to resize your photos: https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=51631.msg499186#msg499186
I'd like to see them before making any sort of serious assessment, but bees fighting and a dearth in your area (Phillip mentioned it on another thread) sounds like robbing to me at first glance. As long as you install the robbing screen when the robbers aren't in there, it will probably take care of it, if robbing is the problem. I don't think you need to seal up the hive for several days. Just install the screen at night or in the rain or something like that, so the robbers don't learn the screen on their way out of the hive.
entrance with small number of small bees
ground at front, there were more ..scattered about 3' diameter
top of frames
Looks like a pesticide kill to me. Maybe followed up with a small amount of robbing.
Quote from: iddee on July 22, 2023, 06:53:00 AM
Looks like a pesticide kill to me. Maybe followed up with a small amount of robbing.
It does ... Could be ...
ok .. now you have me a little paranoid .. unless your're talking about them getting into a sprayed field somewhere.
Quoteunless your're talking about them getting into a sprayed field somewhere.
Yes possible. What crops are in your area?
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 10:42:48 AM
ok .. now you have me a little paranoid .. unless your're talking about them getting into a sprayed field somewhere.
Your evil realtor strikes again!! :cheesy: No, they probably just got into something out foraging. I agree that the amount of bees there looks like something more than only robbing. The other thing that points to it being a pesticide is that you mentioned you saw a significant amount of dead ants, and I don't know why they would be in the middle of a bee fight. Maybe the ants were messing with the contaminated dead bees and were killed for their trouble.
Since we're not really sure how much robbing was going on, I would still reduce the entrance to 1 or 2 bee spaces or add a robbing screen just to be safe. Robbing is a lot easier to prevent than it is to stop, and this hive is still pretty small, all things considered.
crops? really don't know There aren't any big farms, just gardens here and there. 5 mile radius is mostly subdivision, airport, woods and some pasture. I'm "in the city" but I get deer and other critters in the yard .. over half surrounding land is light woods.
not dead ants .. live ants going after dead bees on the ground
and crawling up onto/into the hive ... small ones, not fire ants
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 11:28:09 AM
crops? really don't know There aren't any big farms, just gardens here and there. 5 mile radius is mostly subdivision, airport, woods and some pasture. I'm "in the city" but I get deer and other critters in the yard .. over half surrounding land is light woods.
In that case, it could easily have been some backyard gardener or someone with prize rosebushes or a lawn or some other such place where pesticides don't belong.
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 11:32:50 AM
not dead ants .. live ants going after dead bees on the ground
and crawling up onto/into the hive ... small ones, not fire ants
Oh, I see. Those little ants entering the hive are also taking advantage of the weak state of the colony, a reduced entrance may help deter them as well, as they are opportunists in my experience.
From your pictures, this colony looks pretty small for this time of year. They are in a single deep, correct? I'm a little concerned they are going to have trouble getting through the winter at this size, since now that the solstice is passed, this hive isn't going to continue to grow like it did in spring and early summer. Guys, what do you think about him feeding to get them built up for winter? Phillip, can he expect a fall flow in your experience?
Most large farms try to be bee friendly. A small back yard garden will be covered with 7 dust, never thinking about pollinators, thus killing everything for 5 miles.
Sentimentally, FEED< FEED< FEED.
Practically, COMBINE.
attempt at screen early this morning ... the entrance on the inside of the screen is 4" wide .. made by cutting a diagonal notch out of the bottom 3/4" x 3/4" wood piece... making the opening from the screened in area to the hive 3/4" x 4"
Should that be smaller?
Should I bend the screen at the top over against the hive body and cut a notch in it to make the entrance for the screened area smaller?
Or would it be better to toss the screen and block off all but 1/2"
These bees don't seem very bright.. having a lot of trouble figuring out how to get in... just lifted the screen to let a batch walk under (that were loaded down with pollen and lined up on the porch just sitting there ... also some that are more active and not carrying pollen(didn't let them in) ..
Should the screen be shorter?
and yea .. I have a small hive ... but it's got adjustable length legs and wheels ! ... so there ! :tongue:
Quote from: iddee on July 22, 2023, 12:04:30 PM
Sentimentally, FEED< FEED< FEED.
Practically, COMBINE.
Animal only has this one hive, so he can't combine.
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 12:10:05 PM
These bees don't seem very bright.. having a lot of trouble figuring out how to get in... just lifted the screen to let a batch walk under (that were loaded down with pollen and lined up on the porch just sitting there ... also some that are more active and not carrying pollen(didn't let them in) ..
Just give them a couple of hours and they'll have it figured out. The robbers are attracted by the smell of the honey, and loving bee-lines for obvious reasons, they have difficulty comprehending that they need to first move away from the smell to get around the screen. The bees who actually live in the hive are just looking for a way inside by any means necessary, so they'll crawl around and eventually discover how to get in.
Cool .. Thank You !
On the subject of feeding.. a few (almost guaranteed to be dumb) questions..
I still have some full honeycomb from the cut-out. Would putting the shallow super back on with frames loaded with their own honey be good?
What about water ? It seems like they would need water, but I know nothing here..
Or a chamber that they could access from inside the hive to get to honey and/or water?
and.. ants were not in the hive this morning, only stragglers on the ground. ... realtor.. actually, wouldn't put it past him after hearing more stories about him
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 12:46:46 PM
I still have some full honeycomb from the cut-out. Would putting the shallow super back on with frames loaded with their own honey be good?
At this point I wouldn't. My concern is that there aren't enough bees to cover all the frames and protect the honey from robbers and beetles.
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 12:46:46 PM
Or a chamber that they could access from inside the hive to get to honey and/or water?
As a general rule, feeding inside the hive is always better. Open feeding carries several serious perils. Firstly, it encourages all the bees within 3-6 miles to congregate at your feeder, causing you to waste feed on bees who aren't yours and don't need it, and encouraging disease and parasite spread between colonies. It also encourages robbing in your own yard, because when you remove the feeder, all the random bees who were used to finding food there can easily switch over to robbing your colony when there is no more syrup to be had. Perhaps worst of all, you can contaminate your neighboring beekeepers' honey supers with sugar syrup, which will never turn into honey. This is why you (almost) never feed if there is a flow on, because you don't want sugar water in your honey either.
There are many different styles of in-hive feeder available, but the easiest one is a mason jar. Just punch a line of holes in the lid, fill with sugar syrup, turn the jar upside down on the hole in the inner cover, and place an empty box over the jar. If you don't use an inner cover or don't have one with a hole, you can just place the upside down jar on the top bars instead. The risk is that the bees will build crazy comb in the wide open space of the empty box, but there are ways to mitigate that risk.
The basic reason I think you should feed is that if you aren't expecting any more flow where you live, this hive will not continue to grow, and I don't think that colony is at critical mass to make it through the winter. But then again, your winters are pretty mild, so I'd like someone from your climate to confirm that I'm thinking correctly. Where I live, I want to see 2 of my boxes (8-frame mediums) crammed with bees going into winter. I know your girls are in a deep, and that it's not fall yet, but that colony just looks sparse. All of my colonies are in at least 4 boxes right now for comparison.
Guys, he is feeding in "fall", but his goal is to continue to encourage brood-rearing, so do you think 1:1 or 2:1 syrup?
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 12:46:46 PM
What about water ? It seems like they would need water, but I know nothing here..
Bees absolutely need water. Like basically every other living thing, they need water to drink, but they also use it for their air conditioning. Bee spread water on the combs and then fan their wings to encourage evaporative cooling. Unlike feeding, open watering is perfectly fine. Bees are at great risk of drowning in deep (for them) standing water, and they also love "dirty" water, so they really like the edges of bodies of water or puddles. If you have somewhere on your property that is always wet (like a leaky hose or if you have drip irrigation or a boggy spot that is never dry) they are good to go already. I don't, so to be sure they always have access to water when it hasn't rained, I have an old rubber dog dish full of stones in my mom's garden, and she makes sure it is always full.
saw several versions of jar feeders. One was just holes poked in the lid of a jar that sits on a framed screen placed over the hole in the inner cover. Another was a jar with the lid made like a tray.
By "chamber they can access from inside", the easiest version I envisioned was something like the latter jar type feeder ... with one for honey and another for water (if needed) ... on a shelf inside of an empty super .. and the lid over that. ... and if they needed water given inside. Sorry, I wasn't clear. (and probably still aren't ) .... so this is a bad idea because of crazy comb and maybe other reasons too?
My inner cover is currently a glorified doubled window screen that catches beetles, but making a solid inner cover and tossing the screen is no big deal.
So ... let them get water from outside and make another inner cover to put a jar feeder on.
As far as the liquid feed goes, would there be anything wrong with filling the feeder jar with their own honey from the original cut-out (other than viscosity/water content) ? .. If using it, should I adjust it?s viscosity to be the same as a recommended sugar syrup?
It just seemed like honey would be better for them, and I still have lots of it. .. even after giving away lots of it.
I'm sure the dead observed were only a fraction of the actual number killed. Pretty sure poisoning is again the culprit. Too many disappeared too fast.
Up to a couple of days ago, there would be bees covering everything when the hive was opened up. Glancing in from the top, those naked new thick combs would be barely visible between bees as they were literally crawling all over everything .. including each other. They never reached original numbers, but considering (pretty sure) between 2/3 and 3/4 were killed in the first poisoning, they seemed to be doing okay. Just guessing, but today I'd estimate half are gone this time. with the numbers left comparable to after the first poisoning.
They have been really loud today and there have been a lot of aggressively flying bees around the hive that I imagine to be invaders. The "normal" looking bees are coming in loaded with pollen and are more active than yesterday. Don't know if any of that means anything , though.... but the way they're acting today reminds me of how they were while getting over the first poison incident. If, they're still around in the spring, maybe they'll make a good hive. They wouldn't have lived this long without the people on this site .. Thanks guys and gals
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 07:52:53 PM
By "chamber they can access from inside", the easiest version I envisioned was something like the latter jar type feeder ... with one for honey and another for water (if needed) ... on a shelf inside of an empty super .. and the lid over that. ... and if they needed water given inside. Sorry, I wasn't clear. (and probably still aren't ) .... so this is a bad idea because of crazy comb and maybe other reasons too?
Uh . . . it sounds to me like whatever you are envisioning is just unnecessary, and anything that creates more than 1 bee space of open space in the hive will be asking for crazy comb if the bees are drawing. But you are right, I'm not really understanding what you are envisioning. :grin:
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 07:52:53 PM
My inner cover is currently a glorified doubled window screen that catches beetles, but making a solid inner cover and tossing the screen is no big deal.
Is it literally window screen that you are using? Basically I'm wonder what would happen if you set a jar on the screen. Would it tear the screen? Would the bees still be able to get to the holes in the jar lid easily? If the screen is either rigid or flexible enough to not damage it, and porous enough to let the bees tongues access the syrup, you may just be able to set the jar on top of the screen, put another box around the jar, and you'd be good to go.
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 07:52:53 PM
As far as the liquid feed goes, would there be anything wrong with filling the feeder jar with their own honey from the original cut-out (other than viscosity/water content) ? .. If using it, should I adjust it?s viscosity to be the same as a recommended sugar syrup?
It just seemed like honey would be better for them, and I still have lots of it. .. even after giving away lots of it.
Honey is better for them, and if you were just trying to be sure they had enough food to get through winter, I would say to feed them the honey (or really just give them the super back, since that is way less work). But what we are actually trying to do is mimic a flow so the bees continue to raise a lot of brood. We want to make sure they have enough BEES to get through the winter. Without the stimulation of a flow, at this time of year, the bees will contract the brood nest, and we want them to expand it, or at least keep it constant for longer than nature is telling them to. You could mimic that flow by feeding them the honey, but you might just want to save that super for their winter food. It depends on how much honey is in there right now. When you inspected them last, do you remember how much brood, honey, and pollen they had? We also need to know how much honey is recommended for overwintering in your area. For me it's 40 lbs or essentially 1 medium super.
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 09:28:36 PM
I'm sure the dead observed were only a fraction of the actual number killed. Pretty sure poisoning is again the culprit. Too many disappeared too fast.
Up to a couple of days ago, there would be bees covering everything when the hive was opened up. Glancing in from the top, those naked new thick combs would be barely visible between bees as they were literally crawling all over everything .. including each other. They never reached original numbers, but considering (pretty sure) between 2/3 and 3/4 were killed in the first poisoning, they seemed to be doing okay. Just guessing, but today I'd estimate half are gone this time. with the numbers left comparable to after the first poisoning.
I agree. I had a hive get into something earlier in the year, and it was a suddenly catastrophic loss of bees. Fine one day, and the next day thousands dead on the ground and the bottom board. :sad:
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 09:28:36 PM
They have been really loud today and there have been a lot of aggressively flying bees around the hive that I imagine to be invaders. The "normal" looking bees are coming in loaded with pollen and are more active than yesterday. Don't know if any of that means anything , though....
Robbers are investigative. They are checking every crack, seeking for a way to sneak in. If the bees are acting aggressively, they could just be guard bees who are hyped up from robbers.
Quote from: animal on July 22, 2023, 09:28:36 PM
If, they're still around in the spring, maybe they'll make a good hive. They wouldn't have lived this long without the people on this site .. Thanks guys and gals
It's going to be an uphill climb for them, but with a little help, they still could make it through the winter. Like you say, at least you gave them a chance.
I realized since only animal and I have been talking for most of the afternoon and evening, we have some questions buried in the back and forth. For those in animal's general area: What is the expected size of a wintering colony? How much honey is recommended for the hive to overwinter? And can animal expect another flow before the winter comes?
Quote from: The15thMember on July 22, 2023, 09:49:18 PM
Uh . . . it sounds to me like whatever you are envisioning is just unnecessary ... not really understanding what you are envisioning. :grin:
:cheesy: No !!! You understand perfectly ! What I should have said is "thanks for saving me from going further down an unproductive rabbit hole :wink:
Quote from: The15thMember
Is it literally window screen that you are using? Basically I'm wonder what would happen if you set a jar on the screen. Would it tear the screen?
Would have to cut one screen out, and weight would cause it to sag. The inner cover is a 3/4" wide x 3/4" thick frame with aluminum window screen towards bees, fiberglass towards top .. some places on the fiberglass side is double thickness and has stitches to cause the top layer to raise up in places to form funnel shaped openings that lead to slits cut in the under layer.
When a beetle goes into the funnel, the slit opens. As the beetle goes through the slit, it closes.. trapping him between the aluminum and fiberglass screens.
It was meant to work with a vented lid. If beetles went through the vent, they would have the choice between leaving or getting caught between the screens. The lid is a whole 'nuther story and only partially built. (a temporary lid is on the hive) The screen only caught 3 beetles over the last week and they died before getting out. The little ants partially disassembled what was left of them yesterday or today.
so ... ummm .... unnecessary ..... :embarassed: but technically it worked .... like the wheels ... and adjustable legs
The lid is really embarrassing :wink: but I still think it'll work...
Quote from: animal on July 23, 2023, 01:02:52 AM
Quote from: The15thMember on July 22, 2023, 09:49:18 PM
Uh . . . it sounds to me like whatever you are envisioning is just unnecessary ... not really understanding what you are envisioning. :grin:
:cheesy: No !!! You understand perfectly ! What I should have said is "thanks for saving me from going further down an unproductive rabbit hole :wink:
Quote from: The15thMember
Is it literally window screen that you are using? Basically I'm wonder what would happen if you set a jar on the screen. Would it tear the screen?
Would have to cut one screen out, and weight would cause it to sag. The inner cover is a 3/4" wide x 3/4" thick frame with aluminum window screen towards bees, fiberglass towards top .. some places on the fiberglass side is double thickness and has stitches to cause the top layer to raise up in places to form funnel shaped openings that lead to slits cut in the under layer.
When a beetle goes into the funnel, the slit opens. As the beetle goes through the slit, it closes.. trapping him between the aluminum and fiberglass screens.
It was meant to work with a vented lid. If beetles went through the vent, they would have the choice between leaving or getting caught between the screens. The lid is a whole 'nuther story and only partially built. (a temporary lid is on the hive) The screen only caught 3 beetles over the last week and they died before getting out. The little ants partially disassembled what was left of them yesterday or today.
so ... ummm .... unnecessary ..... :embarassed: but technically it worked .... like the wheels ... and adjustable legs
The lid is really embarrassing :wink: but I still think it'll work...
I don't think it's embarrassing at all! I think it's cool that your brain works like that, because mine absolutely does not, and your building skills make you a very self-sufficient and adaptive beekeeper, which is a huge asset! Once you pair your building knowledge with some bee biology and behavior knowledge, you will be unstoppable! And that will certainly come with experience. I mean for crying out loud, you are a first year beekeeper who went into this entirely blind, and look how far you have come already! I feel like I'm using an inordinate about of exclamation points, but I'm seriously impressed with you, animal. As I've said before, you are clearly a natural. :happy:
It's awfully nice of you to say such things, but the truth of the matter is that I'm still woefully ignorant of most things "bee" and don't see myself as a beekeeper. Seems to me that someone would have to demonstrate that they could successfully keep a couple of colonies healthy throughout a couple of seasons before they were even a hobbyist at beekeeping. I've got less than three months dealing with a salvaged colony that has been on the edge of dying off the whole time. I think I am learning, though; and your encouragement is much appreciated.
Beekeeping is radically different than anything I've ever dealt with. The information about it is organized differently than anything I've ever cared to deal with, and doesn't fit the way I think; so to me, it's much harder than physics or engineering. Making a beetle trap is taking a break from the hard part of beekeeping. I'd like to see things such as a formula to give the entrance size for the hive based on temperature, humidity, interior volume, number of bees , etc.. (or whatever variables would be relevant) For me, it's hard to make sense of the bee stuff ...or "normal" life things, for that matter ... For instance : for the most part, grocery stores should be organized by chemical composition and structure .. the bread, peanut butter, and jelly should not be next to each other !!
To me, doing impractical or silly stuff is by it's nature, embarrassing; but it's also fun ... and making something new or different to do a job is also fun. When the kids were younger, I could avoid the embarrassment entirely by saying I was doing whatever silly project of the time for them ... blame the kids ... or the wife ... but the truth was, I was having fun too.
As far as this site goes : until I know more about bees, the best I can probably do to contribute is give others a chance to chuckle at some of my silliness. .. while I get useful information from them. :smile:
Anyway, thanks to you and others that have helped me.
https://bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm
@ animal, take a look at this web site, it might give you some ideas: https://www.michiganbees.org/Beekeepers-Workshop
jimmy
Quote from: The15thMember on July 23, 2023, 12:00:39 AM
I realized since only animal and I have been talking for most of the afternoon and evening, we have some questions buried in the back and forth. For those in animal's general area: What is the expected size of a wintering colony? How much honey is recommended for the hive to overwinter? And can animal expect another flow before the winter comes?
Animal, I agree with Reagan that the colony needs a healthy amount of bees going into winter.. Her descriptions are right in line with good beekeeping practices. My area, which is in zone 7 is the same growing zone as Reagan's even though she lives several states to the east of me. What she does and suggested works very well for her apiary. She suggest forty pounds of honey for a robust sized winter colony.
Now, if you feel the bees do not have enough honey going into winter, then you can always feed. There are several methods available for this as well. Some beekeepers open feed from a distance in the Fall for a quick build up in food. Some feed by the two gallon upside down bucket on top, with the lid facing down method, which is placed on the top of the hive with a small hole drilled in the hive top and a small holes drilled into the bucket lid which works similar to a boardman feeder without the fear of robbing. I personally like another choice, the mountain camp method of feeding in the winter months here at my location.
You live probably 150-200 miles south of me which puts you in a different growing zone. Even though I am further North than you, my bees will still fly a lot during the winter months on days of sunshine when temperatures reach the proper degrees for flying, which requires food for energy just as being clustered requires food for energy to stay warm. Mountain camp not only provides this food and energy, but secondly an insulation barrier over the top of the cluster which stands to reason helps on the single digit and teen days and nights, and thirdly works well as a moisture barrier with the pure sugar doing a cracker jack job of absorbing moisture in the hive .. A win, win, win in my opinion for my location...
Phillip
Quote from: Ben Framed on July 24, 2023, 01:11:55 PM
Animal, I agree with Reagan that the colony needs a healthy amount of bees going into winter.. Her descriptions are right in line with good beekeeping practices. My area, which is in zone 7 is the same growing zone as Reagan's even though she lives several states to the east of me. What she does and suggested works very well for her apiary. She suggest forty pounds of honey for a robust sized winter colony.
Now, if you feel the bees do not have enough honey going into winter, then you can always feed. There are several methods available for this as well. Some beekeepers open feed from a distance in the Fall for a quick build up in food. Some feed by the two gallon upside down bucket on top, with the lid facing down method, which is placed on the top of the hive with a small hole drilled in the hive top and a small holes drilled into the bucket lid which works similar to a boardman feeder without the fear of robbing. I personally like another choice, the mountain camp method of feeding in the winter months here at my location.
You live probably 150-200 miles south of me which puts you in a different growing zone. Even though I am further North than you, my bees will still fly a lot during the winter months on days of sunshine when temperatures reach the proper degrees for flying, which requires food for energy just as being clustered requires food for energy to stay warm. Mountain camp not only provides this food and energy, but secondly an insulation barrier over the top of the cluster which stands to reason helps on the single digit and teen days and nights, and thirdly works well as a moisture barrier with the pure sugar doing a cracker jack job of absorbing moisture in the hive .. A win, win, win in my opinion for my location...
Phillip
Thanks a lot, Phillip; that is very helpful.
Animal, I think it would be wise to do an inspection of this colony so we have a baseline for where they are now, versus where they should be going into winter. It would be useful to know how many frames have walking adult bees on them, how many frames they have fully drawn, and how many frames of brood, pollen, and honey/nectar they have right now.
Inspection: will do, but I won't be able to for a couple of days.
Quick glance in top and bottom .... no additional dead bees, no live beetles. Haven't seen any of the bees that look like they don't belong this morning or afternoon, just the "chill" ones I'm used to. I don't know exactly how to describe them. I had said aggressive, but that's not really the right word .. flying fast orbits around the hive with sudden stops in mid air (usually in front of the entrance) .. quick landings and fast run inside... That ... as opposed to ... a more direct approach, relaxed landing, loitering a bit on the porch, maybe getting a little grooming by others on the porch, etc.
Anyway, pretty sure the robbers were few and fenced in time... and poison was the real problem.
If they don't bulk up their numbers enough by winter, what do you think about going vertical with them? Was thinking of turning 2 deeps (or more) into a nuc size by filling in sides with insulation board. Leave brood in bottom and put honey frames in the upper box(s). So when they move to feed, they will be above the heat generated by the masses rather than moving off to the colder sides.
A heater could be done, for that matter. (pretty much mostly done already)
"If they don't bulk up their numbers enough by winter,"
If the queen is a good queen and no illness involved in the colony, you can ramp up the numbers by feeding pollen sub-plus sugar water. I would imagine the flow is over in your area? Both of the mentioned will stimulate the hive to reproduce..
Phillip
is this the right stuff? it says only 15 percent pollen ... and how much to feed?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09V826XJR/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=9ce5cb396e4f88f179ec60822a53b569&content-id=amzn1.sym.cd95889f-432f-43a7-8ec8-833616493f4a%3Aamzn1.sym.cd95889f-432f-43a7-8ec8-833616493f4a&hsa_cr_id=6582189990901&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=1e5f0229-24ed-4360-8c53-7f58ea41aea0&pd_rd_w=2MJmt&pd_rd_wg=Ove5z&qid=1690253062&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0_img&sr=1-1-9e67e56a-6f64-441f-a281-df67fc737124&th=1
Quote from: Ben Framed on July 24, 2023, 11:38:53 PM
"If they don't bulk up their numbers enough by winter,"
If the queen is a good queen and no illness involved in the colony, you can ramp up the numbers by feeding pollen sub-plus sugar water. I would imagine the flow is over in your area? Both of the mentioned will stimulate the hive to reproduce..
Phillip
This is what I was talking about before, animal. Winter feeding may be necessary for this colony, but at this point the goal is to artificially increase their numbers so there are enough bees to keep the colony alive and warm. If they aren't bringing in any more nectar, they will need syrup to simulate a flow (I'd imagine 1:1 syrup would be best for this), and if they aren't bringing in pollen, you'll need to feed them pollen substitute (which I've never done before, since I have pollen coming in all flying season).
If they don't bulk up by winter, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. But the more bees, the better their chances, so the goal right now is to make bees.
they are bringing in pollen ... nectar? dunno but suspect yes ... one dropped a roughly triangular piece of packed pollen on the landing board ... tasted it .. it was sweet .. and grainy, of course
Winter feeding .. got that .. Was asking if the pollen Ben said to feed in addition to sugar water (to get queenie burping out babies) is the product I linked to ..
I have had very good luck with Ultra Bee Pollen Substitute. This was recommended to me by TheHoneyPump as well as others..
I am not sure what the protein content is. I just used the stuff with good results when it was needed in Fall and winter of my first season.. I overwintered 5, 5 frame nucs. By Spring the little Nucs were busting at the seams with bees! I learned the nuc build up stuff from David at Barnyard Bees as well as Joe May, and others here at Beemaster...
Phillip
PS, I open fed Pollen Substitute.
Phillip
Thanks Ben ...
was just reading about the chemical make-up of nectars preferred by bees and that of pollen. When I saw taurine in the nectar and protein in pollen ... sounds like protein powder and RedBull :cheesy:
No, I wouldn't feed them that .... unless ya'll say it works :smile:
Quote from: Ben Framed on July 25, 2023, 12:22:24 AM
PS, I open fed Pollen Substitute.
Phillip
by "open feed" ... put a tray out by the water and rocks dish ? I have that about 6 feet from the hive.
I did not measure but I open fed powered pollen substitute 'about' 100 feet away from the closest hive.. If there is no pollen coming in, they will find it..
Phillip
Wow... amazing little creatures. thanks ... got some Ultra bee coming now
Good for you. I really enjoy watching the bees coming in for the pollen substitute.