https://youtube.com/shorts/uDj_OlWdm-Y?si=0ZI6kAM2S7U1n1bu
It is true there is not enough infrastructure to support long haul road trips for electric vehicles. But why oh why are people taking full size trucks on any long road trip? That is what is wrong with people.
Ace,
They haul large travel trailers, boats, large trailers for bringing back materials and that is their main vehicle to get around. They can also bring back large loads in the back of the truck. If you work a farm, you need a heavy duty truck. I use a Tundra but my buddy uses 2 Ram 5500s. He hauls 38 to 42 rolls of hay per vehicle. He and I also haul our tractors on the trailers. Let me see you do any of that with your little gas mizer sub compact. Jim Altmiller 😀
56 dollars - on a two hour recharge good for 215 miles.. Then no recharge available... Pitiful....
Ace, guess I have something wrong with me too :happy: The last road trip, wife and I took my light duty truck .. a Titan crew cab (and a utility trailer). She got dropped with friends and relatives while I worked ..... and we had nights/afternoons together. Had room for luggage, tools, furniture to give to relatives etc. Longer, heavier hauls are for the F250 diesel ... glad I don't need bigger than that.
We do take trips in her car too, but I tend to look on the internet for deals on equipment and such on the route of the trip before we leave... so, back to truck. If it's just me needing to be somewhere or joining her later on a trip, go the fuel efficient route with the Sportster (she absolutely refuses to get on a motorcycle).
And I'm just a regular old carpenter.
QuoteBut why oh why are people taking full size trucks on any long road trip? That is what is wrong with people.
What's wrong with people is that they think it's their business to ask why. I have had to haul livestock across the country, move people and stuff, pick up and take kids to school with all their stuff, and shift furniture. I may need to do that again soon and the trip is
I might not use the truck for every long drive. When I need to use it, I need it to get farther down the road than a couple of 100 miles before requiring a hours long fuel up.
Might be doing that again in a bit and the trip is over 700 miles each way much of it through country that doesn't have gas stations, much less electric charging stations and hotels to stay in while I wait for it to charge.
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on August 25, 2023, 09:06:23 AM
They haul large travel trailers, boats, large trailers for bringing back materials and that is their main vehicle to get around. They can also bring back large loads in the back of the truck. If you work a farm, you need a heavy duty truck.
Quote from: Kathyp on August 25, 2023, 12:13:40 PM
I might not use the truck for every long drive. When I need to use it, I need it to get farther down the road than a couple of 100 miles before requiring a hours long fuel up.
These are the same kinds of things we are planning on using an electric truck for when we get one, hauling hay, taking the boat to the lake, driving into town to get groceries.
QuoteThese are the same kinds of things we are planning on using an electric truck for when we get one, hauling hay, taking the boat to the lake, driving into town to get groceries.
And that's fine if you are doing short distances. If you have to drive over a big mountain pulling a trailer to get 10 tons of hay, you are not going to do it with an electric truck.
I don't have a problem with people owning them if it works for them. I have a problem with them being mandated for people like me, who can't use one with the limitations they have, not to mention the up front cost of the vehicle and the unreliable electric infrastructure.
Where my parents live, they turn the power off when the wind blows. It's often off for days because they can't just throw a switch and turn it back on. After our fires a couple of years ago, and the power company being sued, they are going to start doing the same thing here. I don't want to be stuck out here with an electric vehicle and no power for days. It seems impractical at best.
... maybe that ford lightning would be ok with a big diesel generator in the bed to recharge it ... :cheesy:
Quote from: animal on August 25, 2023, 02:47:00 PM
... maybe that ford lightning would be ok with a big diesel generator in the bed to recharge it ... :cheesy:
Ford lightning (hybrid) on steroids! :wink:
Quote from: Kathyp on August 25, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
And that's fine if you are doing short distances. If you have to drive over a big mountain pulling a trailer to get 10 tons of hay, you are not going to do it with an electric truck.
:grin: No, nothing like that. We have a hay guy a few towns over, and we get a few round bales from him every couple of months. Right now my dad can only haul one bale at a time using our Suburban and a small trailer. We should be able to do it in one trip once we have a pickup truck.
Quote from: Kathyp on August 25, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
I don't have a problem with people owning them if it works for them. I have a problem with them being mandated for people like me, who can't use one with the limitations they have, not to mention the up front cost of the vehicle and the unreliable electric infrastructure.
I completely get it. If we were taking a long trip, this truck is not the car we'd use. And I'd hate to be in a position where this was the only vehicle we had. Heck, only about half of us can fit in it. :grin:
Quote from: Kathyp on August 25, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
Where my parents live, they turn the power off when the wind blows. It's often off for days because they can't just throw a switch and turn it back on. After our fires a couple of years ago, and the power company being sued, they are going to start doing the same thing here. I don't want to be stuck out here with an electric vehicle and no power for days. It seems impractical at best.
Quote from: animal on August 25, 2023, 02:47:00 PM
... maybe that ford lightning would be ok with a big diesel generator in the bed to recharge it ... :cheesy:
We're planning on using the truck as a component of a solar setup. The truck can be a part of the battery system, since it has bi-directional charging, which is how we are justifying the price. It's essentially a battery we can also drive.
QuoteWe're planning on using the truck as a component of a solar setup. The truck can be a part of the battery system, since it has bi-directional charging, which is how we are justifying the price. It's essentially a battery we can also drive.
For your intentions I like the idea of solar incorporated. What kind of solar setup will be large enough to fit the bill?
QuoteWhat kind of solar setup will be large enough to fit the bill?
That and what's the cost vs return potential as opposed to a solar generator?
My calculation with solar panels where I live is that I'd be well dead before I came close to breaking even. As a SHTF thing, it would be worth considering if there was a good storage option, but the same problem exists with wind. The solar generator seems to solve the storage issue and I probably get enough sun even in winter to charge the thing, but the big ones are spendy!
Quote from: Ben Framed on August 25, 2023, 03:07:21 PM
For your intentions I like the idea of solar incorporated. What kind of solar setup will be large enough to fit the bill?
We had a contractor out to give us an estimate a few years ago, I think their recommendation was a 15.3 kW system.
Quote from: Kathyp on August 25, 2023, 03:39:11 PM
That and what's the cost vs return potential as opposed to a solar generator?
My calculation with solar panels where I live is that I'd be well dead before I came close to breaking even. As a SHTF thing, it would be worth considering if there was a good storage option, but the same problem exists with wind. The solar generator seems to solve the storage issue and I probably get enough sun even in winter to charge the thing, but the big ones are spendy!
It's kind of my dad's thing, so I don't know all the details, but nothing is set in stone yet, so it's possible we'd incorporate a generator into the system. We are still a few years down the road from implementing any of this. Our property is too shaded for solar to be viable, but there is a parcel of land that abuts us which is cleared (or used to be, the forest has been overtaking it for several years now), and if we are able to purchase that property, it will open up a lot of options for us, including solar.
QuoteOur property is too shaded for solar to be viable
That's my problem along with being in a gully and our 9 months of very little sun. I will say that the ability of the solar panels to collect in lower light is improved, but not enough to make it cost effective for me. My son in TX had them put on his roof and it's working for him, but he has to look into the storage issue.
I don't have an issue with any of it if it's a choice, it just has not penciled out for us. Our best bet would be wind as a backup with a battery storage system. It would still be hit and miss, but less expensive and longer lasting. I did have a hand pump put on the old well, so the water issue is solved.
I have 32 solar panels on my barn that feed the house and barn. That is a 10 KW system. That is the most that our electric company allows on residential units. Problem is the hat I never got 10 KW even at peak hours. That is due in o the large amount of moisture in the air and system loses. The highest that I have seen is 7KW on rare occasions. During the summer i almost never make enough power to break even. Usually there are so many clouds in the sky blocking the sun and due to a he heat and humidity, the three AC units are running most of the time. During the spring and fall, I usually make a little more power than I need. 😊
I need to add a few more panels so that I can actually produce 10KW at peak hours. It is expensive, so far I?ve spent over $32.000.
The electric bills used to run $250 and up a month now it is between $30 to $95. The $3o is due to a $35 minimum monthly fee per meter. Before I put the solar in I had two meters, I had them connect the barn to the house as part of the job. That is a $420 per year savings.
Many electric companies pay you back what they charge for power. Ours only pays $.03 a kilowatt compared to $.12 a KW cost. Something to consider.
My cousin lives in NJ. He put 2 systems on his roof. That is large enough for his house, barn and 2 Tesla?s. On top of that the state of NJ pays him $200 per month per system. Several states do the same, not FL. That will make solar pay for itself.
Jim Altmiller
I knew most of you would get your panties in a knot. If you have a truck because you need a truck then you should have a truck. I had a Ford, a Toyota, Dodges and now a minivan. You can't plow 3 ft of snow with a Kia but I didn't use the plow trucks to vacation in FL. or commute to work. Drive 95 and count the gas guzzlers flying up and down the interstate with nothing in tow or loaded and only the driver in the vehicle. Look in the driveways of the million dollar + homes with not one but two trucks and they ain't haulen nothing. Ah yes, the republicans are great for making excuses for blowing the budget. And you have to listen to them complain about gas prices. There ain't a one that chooses their vehicle based on the price of gas, they just keep winning. Poor me and that Biden.
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on August 26, 2023, 06:49:15 AM
It is expensive, so far I?ve spent over $32.000.
... That is a $420 per year savings.
So was it the government hand out that convinced you to make such a terrible investment?
Quote from: Acebird on August 26, 2023, 08:27:11 AM
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on August 26, 2023, 06:49:15 AM
It is expensive, so far I?ve spent over $32.000.
... That is a $420 per year savings.
So was it the government hand out that convinced you to make such a terrible investment?
Ace,
I did get back about $11,000 in tax reductions. That does make it a little cheaper.
Jim Altmiller
Ace,
There is another reason to drive big trucks.
As a firefighter I see all kinds of accidents. If seen large pickups rip 4 10-12 pine trees out of the ground and the driver walked away. My daughter?s boyfriend had his three daughters in a pickup and had a head on collision with a small car. Airbag broke his jawbone and the girls only had seatbelt bruises. I helped peal the woman out of her car, broken leg, arm internal injury and massive facial injuries. We life flighted her to a trauma center.
It is pretty much the same thing with most small car collisions, whether it is a tree/barrier or another vehicle. Most of the passengers in large vehicles walk away.
Jim Altmiller
So we should all drive 18 wheelers?
No but a full sized pickup or suburban is a good compromise.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: Acebird on August 26, 2023, 09:46:55 AM
So we should all drive 18 wheelers?
Maybe you should stick to your 400 dollar E bike Brian; Just add a custom pull behind trailer (if you need to haul a load.)
PS do not forget to add emergency blinkers!
:shocked: :cheesy: :wink:
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on August 26, 2023, 09:31:47 AM
Ace,
There is another reason to drive big trucks.
As a firefighter I see all kinds of accidents. If seen large pickups rip 4 10-12 pine trees out of the ground and the driver walked away. My daughter?s boyfriend had his three daughters in a pickup and had a head on collision with a small car. Airbag broke his jawbone and the girls only had seatbelt bruises. I helped peal the woman out of her car, broken leg, arm internal injury and massive facial injuries. We life flighted her to a trauma center.
It is pretty much the same thing with most small car collisions, whether it is a tree/barrier or another vehicle. Most of the passengers in large vehicles walk away.
Jim Altmiller
I never thought about that before, Jim. I guess it's just basic physics.
All we need is a huge tax on gas guzzlers when they are used for pleasure or commuting. It will only affect those that can afford it. And as Jim has demonstrated the roads will be much safer.
wow ... standard democrat tactics ...
Set forth an unworkable and illogical idea, when opposed retreat to "all we need is a new tax".
Next is to write it into the tax code to benefit the "friends" of politicians and create headaches for everyone else who gets to pay for it and/or give up on what they want. ... then the item in question can be banned since not enough of those using it are left to oppose the ban.
Here's the deal .. I don't care what my neighbor has in his driveway or what he's doing unless it interferes with me doing what I want. I have no desire to punish him for the choices he makes that I think are stupid. Why? I'm not a control freak.
Quote from: Acebird on August 26, 2023, 12:24:43 PM
All we need is a huge tax on gas guzzlers when they are used for pleasure or commuting. It will only affect those that can afford it. And as Jim has demonstrated the roads will be much safer.
Perhaps instead, we should impose a heavy tax of those who would suggest such nonsense.. :shocked:
But like your proposal this would be unconstitutional too.
What we really need is a President who is a proponent for American and its well being, especially when it comes to energy. Maybe someday we can select and elect a leader who would put the well being of American Citizens first, and willing to tap into the almost 'unlimited' oil that we have right here beneath our own soil?
But wait! We had one!!
Such a tax could be imposed as "constitutional" under current theory. We already have many such taxes on the books and the majority of them are excise taxes.
One that many of you guys pay and that prevented me from going into a side business is a tax on recreational outdoor equipment. I have several designs for fishing lures, mostly for largemouth bass. Most have worked, but are unremarkable compared to the wide variety already available. One however, is a topwater lure that I've caught quite a few on and is a little special. It can go away from you by twitching the rod tip and letting out line. It takes a little practice and timing , but it works. As long as it starts about 8' away, you can tease it to 50' away or so. (depending on how calm the water is, the elasticity of your line, and the switchiness of the rod)
Anyway, I looked into the idea of making and selling them. The excise taxes are figured on a per unit basis tied to the expected retail price and paid upon production of the units.
So ..
you owe the taxes before the first one is even sold.
In my case, the taxes were going to be higher per unit than the cost of production per unit ... and prohibitive.
So.. to all you fishermen out there .. Y'all can't have one ! :tongue:
QuoteAll we need is a huge tax on gas guzzlers when they are used for pleasure or commuting. It will only affect those that can afford it. And as Jim has demonstrated the roads will be much safer.
it is typical leftist thinking that people need to be forced to comply. How about you drive what you want to drive and let me drive what I want to drive. You can be all self-righteous as I pass your little sewing machine on the freeway and I can just smile down at you. Everyone wins.
Typical republican. Love to control others but can't stand anyone controlling them. Enjoy the gas prices.
Quote from: animal on August 26, 2023, 01:35:27 PM
Anyway, I looked into the idea of making and selling them. The excise taxes are figured on a per unit basis tied to the expected retail price and paid upon production of the units.
So ..
you owe the taxes before the first one is even sold.
Usually refers to items consumed not sold retail. Who is your tax advisor?
Ace, to be honest, that was over 35 years ago. Rules may have changed, I don't know. I talked to agents in the local tax offices (feds and state) and they laid out the process based on what I told them I wanted to do/charge/etc. I wasn't well established yet in my actual business and didn't even have an accountant then. The agents in both offices took down my info, checked with others in their offices, and got back to me a week or so later if I remember correctly. I do remember both came back with the same answer.
No biggie, It's not like there's a fortune in it anyway ...
Now, the way I see it, it's too much hassle and expense to bother checking into it. If you want, you can chalk it up to a side effect of regulation limiting the market by increasing costs, rather than limiting through direct taxation. Tax advisors cost money. I'm no longer willing to bother.
>All we need is a huge tax on gas guzzlers when they are used for pleasure or commuting.
Why not just leave them alone?
>Typical republican. Love to control others but can't stand anyone controlling them. Enjoy the gas prices.
I don't want to control anyone. The gas prices under republicans are always lower.
Quote from: animal on August 27, 2023, 11:24:16 AM
Tax advisors cost money.
The whole process of designing a widget, patenting a widget and bringing it to market costs barrels of money. Then you need enough capital to protect the patent from those that will ignore it.
You could document how to make the widget so someone could make it themselves and sell that knowledge. If it is really that good you could make a bundle on the internet.
Quote from: Michael Bush on August 28, 2023, 06:56:13 AM
The gas prices under republicans are always lower.
And the world suffers greatly for it just so they can drive their gas guzzlers. I am of the belief that you should leave your children a better life not worse. But republicans don't care about other people not even their own children.
The people who suffer most when gas prices are high are poor people. Why do you want to punish poor people?
>But republicans don't care about other people not even their own children.
You say the MOST ridiculous things. That statement is patently absurd. Everything about it is absurd. What is worse, I think you actually believe it.
Quote from: Acebird on August 28, 2023, 09:05:35 AM
Quote from: animal on August 27, 2023, 11:24:16 AM
Tax advisors cost money.
The whole process of designing a widget, patenting a widget and bringing it to market costs barrels of money. Then you need enough capital to protect the patent from those that will ignore it.
You could document how to make the widget so someone could make it themselves and sell that knowledge. If it is really that good you could make a bundle on the internet.
1st deflection. .. only true if you are talking about bringing it to market on a large scale upon introduction.
2nd deflection. .. an alternate business model based on intellectual property and using infrastructure which did not exist at the time.
The point was that this was a real world example of govt. regulation and taxation (through a convoluted tax system) suppressing the market.Very small example. inconsequential in itself. a niche market toy. because of how it works, it may not even be patentable. It is just a "shape" having different densities at different points, to transfer instabilities to linear motion. If people want to make their own, they can look at a "rattleback" and think in terms of the object surrounded by fluid rather than contacting a surface ... to produce a preferred "linear" motion rather than "reversing" a spin. Energy is stored when it dives from a yank on the line.
There. You have as much explanation of how to make one as you need. Probably isn't worth it to you ... just as it isn't worth it to me to navigate around a govt. roadblock to the market.
added hint.. it needs a swivel where line is attached
what I didn't mention, because it seems so obvious to me ...
Although this example is inconsequential measured against the market, how many other "inconsequential" ideas of others have also been prevented from coming to market ? How many have there been that could have been game changers ?
Even this regular old guy from Mississippi has several others (completely unrelated to fishing) that have been prototyped and used, but production is prevented by costs to comply with regulation (and not just taxes). I also have friends with some pretty useful original gadgets ... anecdotal, yes ... but possibly a microcosm.
I suspect that the total of the never-produced ideas would have been far more significant to the market than anyone is willing to admit.
Scotty Kilmer put this out just 10 hours ago..
https://youtu.be/KpdCvw7tqOI?si=dw27z-xSO8ECeRva
Quote from: animal on August 28, 2023, 12:37:25 PM
what I didn't mention, because it seems so obvious to me ...
Although this example is inconsequential measured against the market, how many other "inconsequential" ideas of others have also been prevented from coming to market ? How many have there been that could have been game changers ?
Even this regular old guy from Mississippi has several others (completely unrelated to fishing) that have been prototyped and used, but production is prevented by costs to comply with regulation (and not just taxes). I also have friends with some pretty useful original gadgets ... anecdotal, yes ... but possibly a microcosm.
I suspect that the total of the never-produced ideas would have been far more significant to the market than anyone is willing to admit.
If your widget cannot support taxation you don't even have a market. Taxes are applied to profit. Nothing is being suppressed.
Quote from: Michael Bush on August 28, 2023, 09:46:09 AM
The people who suffer most when gas prices are high are poor people.
And that wouldn't happen if we were not beholding to oil companies. Gas guzzlers put a high demand on gas. If you drive one YOU are hurting poor people.
Quote from: Acebird on August 29, 2023, 08:58:54 AM
If your widget cannot support taxation you don't even have a market. Taxes are applied to profit. Nothing is being suppressed.
Wow ACE !
You not only managed to miss the point ... indirect "costs" of regulation which aren't tax collections, but waste introduced into the system ... by either increased costs without benefit to any party (unless you count lawyers ..I don't .. seem more like a parasitic draw to me),
or limiting the growth of the market.
but you also flat out lied ... Some taxes are applied to a profit. The example I gave was a type of ad valorum tax, not an income tax. It's applied "on the value of" the item just like the Latin words say. There are many taxes which are not levied as a percentage of income.
While you are entertaining at times, I'm starting to worry about whether you're ok.
You are not telling the whole story. There is something fishy about your excise tax because they apply to something consumable like alcohol or cigarettes not a fishing lure. Both of these items are very profitable and can support all the taxes applied. The taxes do not harm the market one I ota. Neither do all the gas taxes. Regardless of what the price of gasoline is we americans will consume more then what we can produce.
Our country needs to grab all the tax money it can from gasoline and use that money to support other forms of energy that we can produce ourselves.
Of course I'm not telling the whole story, I'm telling you what I remember. ... without going into a long dissertation about excise taxes, how many there are, the intricate details of the BS I faced with them, and why you often cannot set up shop on a shoestring because of excise taxes and other government regulation. Most of the system is designed to front-load the cost of going into business which keeps new little guys from starting up .. thereby protecting the big guys from competition.
The fat cats say the little guys can't get into the market because they're under capitalized ... when often, the only reason the little guy is under capitalized is because of artificial costs caused by regulation.
You obviously have no clue as to what items are subject to federal excise taxes, much less state and sometimes local ones... or you're lying. Funny thing is, I don't care. So no, I'm not telling the whole story, but I'm not lying.
Believe what you want. I'm gonna go make some money and, in the process, see how many of your beloved taxes I can avoid.
... notice I said avoid, not evade ... big difference :cheesy:
to be honest, I started to waste time going into detail... then I realized nothing I said would have mattered so I opted for troll vs, troll instead. have a good one ! :wink:
QuoteNeither do all the gas taxes. Regardless of what the price of gasoline is we americans will consume more then what we can produce.
Our country needs to grab all the tax money it can from gasoline and use that money to support other forms of energy that we can produce ourselves.
That's untrue (surprise!) We can produce far more than we do, but regulations are restrictive when it comes to building new refineries and we have to put up with the eco-nuts that cost court money and slow things down.
Before Biden, we were producing more oil than we were using and in spite of the lack of refining capacity, fuel prices were much lower. Oil is an international market, so if we produce excess the price is pushed down.
You are advocating for confiscation and redistribution. Unfortunately, that redistribution is to industries that repeatedly take that money and then fail. For those few that don't fail, they can't exist without subsidies and they are not cost effective. They are also not clean and they are not efficient.
It all is a good example of economic Fasicm though. Approved businesses get supported by the government and those out of favor get punished.
We consume 20 mil barrels per day and produce 11mil. That's a big gap. God only knows where you get your numbers.
[quote author=Kathyp link=topic=56730.msg520352#msg520352 date=16933294.
You are advocating for confiscation and redistribution. Unfortunately, that redistribution is to industries that repeatedly take that money and then fail. For those few that don't fail, they can't exist without subsidies and they are not cost effective. They are also not clean and they are not efficient.
[/quote]
That sounds like farming.
QuoteWe consume 20 mil barrels per day and produce 11mil. That's a big gap.
that's fair enough, but here is what I said:
QuoteWe can produce far more than we do, but regulations are restrictive when it comes to building new refineries and we have to put up with the eco-nuts that cost court money and slow things down.
The main thing we did that made us energy independent before COVID and Biden was fracking and natural gas. We can produce more. We were at our peak and increasing before COVID restrictions crashed the oil market. We have to have the will to produce more. The oil market is global so what we can't refine, we sell. Build more refineries and build more LNG lines.
QuoteThat sounds like farming.
Let me know when you don't have to eat. And no I'm not advocating for farm subsidies, but at least we get something in return.
I have to admit that I actually laughed out loud when I read Ace's "That sounds like farming" ... just enough truth to be funny
Anyway, this is closer to the subject than fishing lures :happy:
I'm pleased to announce that my oldest daughter has joined the ranks of happy drivers of crew cab 8 cyl gas burning trucks. I had bought it because it was a good deal (only because I'm ok with a wrench), to trade or make money towards a small(ish) car for the younger one. Got it cheap because thieves had cut the catalytic converters out, stole a wheel and it sat for awhile. Oldest heard, and said she was looking for a truck. This one had been well taken care of (trans changed at 50k, close to 100k on odo, oil changed every 3500) so gave it the full treatment as a keeper instead of "fix for sale". Replaced cats, seat motor, fuel pump, water pump, radiator(upgraded to HD towing just 'cause I got it for 5 bucks more), thermostat, belt, Steam clean in/out/and around, couple of coils, O2 sensors, full scan with the toughbook, changed oil, trans fluid, brake fluid and rear calipers. Only thing wrong now is it's a F-150 and metallic charcoal, so the hood and roof is a little scruffy.(and it has the trim package with the low-slung running boards, hate those things) Swapped her for a Rav 4 that we gave her a few years ago. Youngest gets that for bouncing to and from college.
Anyway she's had it for a week now and I asked if she likes it and she beamed. For the record, she's even happy with the mileage. Bugger does run good, if I say so myself. :grin:
>We consume 20 mil barrels per day and produce 11mil.
Under Biden. Under Trump we were exporting it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-crude-output-rise-record-1276-mln-bpd-2023-eia-2023-08-08/#:~:text=NEW%20YORK%2C%20Aug%208%20(Reuters,Energy%20Information%20Administration%20on%20Tuesday.
You been reading Kathy's sources?
Quote from: Michael Bush on August 30, 2023, 06:46:46 AM
>We consume 20 mil barrels per day and produce 11mil.
Under Biden. Under Trump we were exporting it.
Alrighty then, some weeds to get into are needed. I'll try to keep them trimmed. :cheesy:
WE were and are exporting oil, and we use more than we produce. What happened under Trump as far as being historic market-wise, had to do with the overall energy market rather than just the oil segment of it. Most of the movement happened in the oil and gas market, but we never became a net exporter of oil in particular.
Trump tipped the scale to us becoming "energy independent" (net exporter of energy, all sources) for the first time in over 50 years (more, but I can't remember exact number and am too lazy to look it up) with an executive order which decreased the cost of production of US oil and natural gas. Other things too, pipeline, for instance. Anyway, oil accounts for a little over a third of the "energy" produced. Gas accounts for a little less than a third.
So we had high exports at low prices while Trump was able to build up the oil reserves at a discount price (and help support the domestic production market in the process)Covid hit, screwed the pooch on nearly everything market-wise(chaos), and then the election came.
Biden shut down the pipeline, reversed policies on oil leases with a slick move that amounts to "sure you can have oil leases : on the lands that don't have oil" and a few other idiotic moves. These policies obviously increase the cost of production and decrease availability : both of which would raise prices and did, but Biden had a handy-dandy huge pool of oil reserves that had been bought by Trump back when prices dropped like a rock due to his policies. So, for quite awhile, Biden was able to artificially dampen prices in the domestic market.
So far, everything I've mentioned Biden doing wouldn't affect world demand for US oil in a positive way. So, how do you increase demand for your product while your prices for it are going up?
Simple ... capture a market by removing competition.
Which market? Europe, plus whoever else you can get to go along with sanctions against Russia. Then, you can even set a new , higher record !
So now we've got high exports at high prices, high prices at the pump, and low oil reserves.And I haven't touched devaluation of the dollar: bad under Covid-Trump, atrocious under Biden. not a fan of either, to be honest, but i think it's better to be honest about them... not to imply that I thought you were being dishonest, btw. ... and I'm really replying to the topic/room
https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/kinshasa-young-people-trained-content-production-pledge-to-fight-disinformation
We take all these things piecemeal, but they are a part of a bigger picture. COVID might have been an accident, but it was an opportunity for the world bodies doing the 2030 stuff. They said so out loud. Climate change is another one they have been exploiting. They said so out loud.
Now we have children IDing "misinformation" and spending their time fixing it for us.
I think it's past time we wake up to the big picture. Our next president will be one that will do the bidding of the IMF and the UN at large. No one else will be allowed. These little mistakes, like reducing our energy independence, reducing our military, distracting us with social issues, and destroying our standard of living, are not accidents. Our intel agencies and our military being degraded are not accidents.
They keep telling us what they want to do but few seem to be listening.
kathy, humans are predisposed to look for patterns whether they are there or not.
Never underestimate the breadth nor depth nor contagion of human stupidity ... imo, the best lesson the internet can teach us :cheesy:
Quotekathy, humans are predisposed to look for patterns whether they are there or not.
Sure, and I know that we all can go down conspiracy rabbit holes. In this case, though, they are posting and talking about their goals. The pattern fits the goals.
And looking for patterns and anomalies is kinda one of my prior life background things. :wink:
Well, that sounds a little spooky ... true enough, but when the ducks and geese both fly south for winter, it doesn't mean they're in on it together. Imo, too many varied interests and too large a theater to be coming from one pipe. Then you have, the larger the show is, the less chance a puppeteer can succeed. If the goal is uncontrolled systemic collapse, we're already at point of no return, imo. Then, there's nothing to do but play it by ear.
I'm all for exploring ideas but saying conspiracy out loud already closes peoples' ears ... to the point that certain obvious evidence of conspiracy is ignored by most of the public.
No worries here whichever way it is, is not, or goes. If you can't affect it, it makes no sense to worry about it, and I've always been able to land on my feet. :wink:
QuoteNo worries here whichever way it is, is not, or goes. If you can't affect it, it makes no sense to worry about it, and I've always been able to land on my feet.
So have I, but I wonder what we are leaving our kids and grandkids. The outlines of the plans are out there for public consumption if anyone cares to google. I have always thought that people should be believed when they are telling you they want to do something.
That's why we teach them the various skills we hope they will never need. At no time in history was there a shortage of those who wanted to lord over others. I'll admit, I've felt the need to reread Marcus Aurelius more often in the last couple of years, but there's also the great philosopher, Mel Brooks. "Hope for the best. Expect the worst. Some drink Champaign. Some die of thirst." :grin:
Keep that yeast that can handle high alcohol dry, until you're ready to use it ... so to speak.
Quote from: Kathyp on August 29, 2023, 08:56:58 PM
Let me know when you don't have to eat.
My point is farmers are predominately republican and like to complain about someone else getting subsidies. If farmers were not subsidized we would just pay more for food. We wouldn't have the money to buy gas guzzling trucks when we DON'T NEED THEM.
QuoteWe wouldn't have the money to buy gas guzzling trucks when we DON'T NEED THEM.
I know you are just chain yanking, but you bring up something that I always find interesting. Who gets to define need and what are the parameters?
Example: I have a friend who was in a very bad car accident. She was driving a small car. After that, she was never comfortable in a small car so she bought large, less fuel efficient but safer in her mind, cars. Would her psychological need count?
What exactly is the definition of need? Do I need to transport big stuff in my big truck? Maybe we could have a trip permit system so that I'd have to justify my need to take my truck somewhere? Do I have to justify my need before I can even buy one? The questions this brings up are endless, but they all boil down to who defines need and how...and by what right do they have the power?
I remember when the left (particularly Ralph Nader) were pitching a fit about how little cars (particularly Corvairs and VW beetles) were too dangerous and should be outlawed... now he wants SUVs outlawed because they are dangerous to the small cars...
Quote from: Kathyp on August 31, 2023, 11:51:39 AM
QuoteWe wouldn't have the money to buy gas guzzling trucks when we DON'T NEED THEM.
I know you are just chain yanking, but you bring up something that I always find interesting. Who gets to define need and what are the parameters?
Example: I have a friend who was in a very bad car accident. She was driving a small car. After that, she was never comfortable in a small car so she bought large, less fuel efficient but safer in her mind, cars. Would her psychological need count?
What exactly is the definition of need? Do I need to transport big stuff in my big truck? Maybe we could have a trip permit system so that I'd have to justify my need to take my truck somewhere? Do I have to justify my need before I can even buy one? The questions this brings up are endless, but they all boil down to who defines need and how...and by what right do they have the power?
Coincidentally, her need is the same as leftists, psychological help. :cheesy: