Varroa is not here yet...very likely a matter of time.
The pest is spreading. Almonds are about to finish flowering and thousands of hives will be moved.
Yes, they should not be moved into Qld but beekeepers being beekeepers I would not be surprised if hives....and varroa will be ending up in our area.
The problems are manifold: we have no brood break here. We take honey off most of the year. Indeed the coastal area has mangrove and Teatree flows in winter.
What to do? How to deal with varroa in our type of environment?
Don't suggest a forced brood break, loking up the queen...my mate has 600 hives, another mate has 2500 hives.
There has to be a relatively simple solutions which, I guess, has not been found yet.
Very interested to hear solutions.
The latest varroa map..
Max,
Michael Bush has been keeping bees for a very long time. When varroa hit, like everyone else he started treating with all of the poison and chemicals. He then decided to let the bees figure it out. He has not been treating his bees for, I think, over ten years now. He has done a few things to help the bees out.
He shaved his brood frames down by an eighth of an inch and puts 11 frames in a 10 foot and box. This allows each bee in the brood area to do the work of two bees. The other thing he does is use fountain less frames to allow the bees to make smaller bees to allow them to hatch out a day or two earlier. This reduces the number of mites that can mature to adulthood. Mite originally developed on apis Cerana drone brood only. Apis Cerana is a smaller bee that hatches sooner than our bees. Loosing a few drone brood is not a problem. The foundation in our hives was designed to make larger bees, to bee able to carry more nectar. Larger bees take more time to develop.
Maybe Michael will provided more information.
I think when Varroa hit Italy, may have been another country, they decided to not treat their bees. The first couple of years they lost a large percentage of their hives. Then the bees changed and survived with the mites.
Jim Altmiller
A crash course in Varroa Destructor education published by: "TheHoneyPump"... Reposted by Robo
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=54623.msg497375#msg497375
>Michael Bush has been keeping bees for a very long time. When varroa hit, like everyone else he started treating with all of the poison and chemicals. He then decided to let the bees figure it out. He has not been treating his bees for, I think, over ten years now.
You gave a good synopsis, except it's been more than twenty years.
bushfarms.com
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on August 29, 2023, 08:32:46 AM
He has not been treating his bees for, I think, over ten years now.
Quote from: Michael Bush on August 29, 2023, 12:24:56 PM
You gave a good synopsis, except it's been more than twenty years.
I thought jim was a little off on the time. I have been keeping bees 10 years treatment free.
Treatment free is on eoption, many lost 80% of their hives whislt establishing those that will survive.
Vaporizing oxalic acid is one possible solution. Look up sublimox and similar powered oxalic acid vaporisers. Can be used even with hioney supers on. Oxalic acid is a natural component of honey. Takes around 30seconds per hive.
Thanks Nigel;
"not with honey supers on"
we have honey supers on all year here.
" 3 times in 15 days"
I wonder just once a year?
" need a generator"
!!Not a big issue.
" Very toxic - need to wear PPE and no skin exposed"
!!Not what we are used to - it can get warm and humid here.
here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfVRYMpYnHI&t=4s
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=53208.msg479360#msg479360
No-one said living with varroa was problem free.......and no-one wants the extra hassle....but it's really trivial and IMHO neccessary to treat.
There are gas powered oxalic acid vapour systems that do not require a generator, and yes a particle mask is advised as OA vapour is not pleasant. If you wear a bee suit and use gloves adding a mask is trivial. Try the Oz armour ventilated suits if heat is an issue. I use them all the time often beekeeping in them and speedos only.
As your bees have yet to see varroa chances are they will be quite susceptible to it. I wouldn't recommend treatment free. I see the treatment free bees many UK beekeepers keep and to be honest they would be better off in a nuc as they are really struggling to survive. Can't speak for other countries with different climates but in UK it's not good for the bees welfare, might be different in your climate, might be worse.
An easier alternative is take off you supers for 6 weeks and add apivar strips (or equivalent) to the hives....then remove and carry on. Many many different ways to deal with varroa.
It used to be whinging poms but now I'm not so sure :smile: :smile:
"NigelP"
"There are gas powered oxalic acid vapour systems that do not require a generator, and yes a particle mask is
advised as OA vapour is not pleasant."
I use a 400 watt power inverter hooked to a 12 volt battery to run mine when no electrical outlet is available ,, No problems....
"Many many different ways to deal with varroa."
Yes there are several methods available in dealing with varroa...
While making splits and lifting off 1/2 supers, again full of honey, and struggling with the weight, it crossed my mind how I would ever be able to lift full depth , 10 frame supers with honey to check on Varroa?
I have been writing to a long list of people I had hoped could give some advice regarding dealing with Varroa in or subtropical environment. Nil response so far from Government sources but i got a quick response from the manufacturers of APIGUARD.
It appears that their product ( I hope i got this right) can be used with honet supers on and with brood - the conditions we have to deal with here.
I gather that a pallet load of the product will soon arrive in Australia.
The limitation is the temperature as we could only use the product as long as the days are under 30C.
One issue which seems to be missed is that if we would take honey supers off very few of us would have a cool room to store them.
Wax moths love used foundations!
A product available in the US ( a BT product, I believe) is not yet registered in Australia.
Max there are some topics here at Beemaster covering hive lifts that will be a great asset to Beekeepers of all ages in assistance in lifting those heavy supers. I will try and find something, and get back here with it.
Phillip
Quote from: Ben Framed on September 21, 2023, 11:56:08 AM
Max there are some topics here at Beemaster covering hive lifts that will be a great asset to Beekeepers of all ages in assistance in lifting those heavy supers. I will try and find something, and get back here with it.
Phillip
Try this Max
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=53409.msg481678#msg481678
This was on the ABC today on varroa:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2023-11-09/deadly-parasite-varroa-mite-behind-predicted-feral-bee-die-off/102905408
I have written to one of the researchers.
I have not come across much relevant information in regards to beekeeping with Varroa in my situation:
- no broodbreak
- honey pretty well all year
- at an age which limits lifting
I agree that most of the feral hives will be gone. I assume beekeepers with one or two hives will be former beekeepers too. Think FLOW hives.
Most honey producing beekeepers seem to be in the cold parts of the world and get their honey from crops like canola.
Large beekeepers in warmer climates seem to focus on pollination.
There is a reason why the USA is importing more honey than you produce.
U.S. Honey Industry Report - 2021
Bee Culture
https://www.beeculture.com ? u-s-honey-industry-rep...
May 2, 2022 ? U.S. beekeepers with more than five colonies in 2020 produced, according to USDA, 147.6 million pounds of honey.
We do import honey, as we have a population of 331.9 in million in (2021) "and counting". Compared to your 25.69 million in population in (2021) while you produce 55 to 66 million pounds of honey annually. (Wikipedia)
Keep that good Australian honey coming!!
Phillip
I had plenty of feral bees around here until one year they changed pesticides for the aphids and sprayed the soybeans while they were blooming. I'm pretty sure every bee in the county died.
Dr. Seeley's work in the Arnot forest in New York also showed that wild honey bees were able to survive and manage varroa on their own. His book The Lives of Bees has lots of information on this.
Quote from: Michael Bush on November 09, 2023, 10:56:00 AM
I had plenty of feral bees around here until one year they changed pesticides for the aphids and sprayed the soybeans while they were blooming. I'm pretty sure every bee in the county died.
Quote from: The15thMember on November 09, 2023, 10:59:03 AM
Dr. Seeley's work in the Arnot forest in New York also showed that wild honey bees were able to survive and manage varroa on their own. His book The Lives of Bees has lots of information on this.
@Michael BushNot good about the pesticides. A shame and pity. What solution can be had that will be in the best interest of both bees as well as the farmers involved?
@The15thMemberJust curious, do SHB persist in the Arnot Forest in New York?
This is an interesting study from Cuba.
file:///C:/Users/max/Downloads/cuban_bees_selection_varroa_resistance(2).pdf
I doubt very much that Australia will take this path - high risk.
There was a better article ( and more up to date) in one of the bee mags but I did not have the time to search for it.
Max I haven?t been on your countries site in a while. Is there a definite plan from here?
Amazed how little news i have received about the current situation?
I have looked but did not come up with much. Maybe no news is good news?
Phillip
I have lost count of the number of emails I have sent to " experts".
Our situation seems to be unique and we will have to work it out as we go along.
All clear so far.
This summary has just been mailed:
https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/1486513/DPI-Primefact-Varroa-mite-management-options_final-.pdf?&mkt_tok=NjQzLU5PRy0zMDAAAAGQKRMptKZFuOd_WQv-eQtZY7-mjKpHpeFPXZPCI-a-UAmMx-M718tXMeLDMEfEZNl3jSthviIYa_zL3T1wWyvZzFkff8Yefw7EXGHWesyi
It looks to me a good one and quite comprehensive.
The problem is that for us, in the subtropics , it does not offer any acceptable solutions.
We are never broodless, we may take honey off any time during the year.
I will have a chat with some of my friends with a lot more hives then i have...but I can hear them already. They will simply use any available strips.
There are realy cowboy methods used to deal with SHB ( eg Fironil) and why would beekeepers use IPM? Too time consuming...
And for the people with just a few hives? Will they check their brood every 16 weeks?
Pigs may fly...
If the aphids aren't sprayed on the soybeans it will cost them 10% of their crop. If the aphids are sprayed on the soybeans it will kill the bees and that will cost them 20% of their crop. The intelligent move is to not spray. I have one farmer who raised pumpkins and when I put the bees there he stopped spraying his soybeans and he saw no real difference except that there were more bees and it saved him a lot of money.
There has been no more news about Varroa for a while.
The best information came from the Uni Florida.
It appears they are leading researchers in our climate range.
Reading a lot of their information ( and watching videos) i have worked out a plan which i feel i can handle considering my age limitation, time and financial cost.
Of course I'm hoping that Varroa will not make it up this way for some years.
Everybody I sell nuc's to is aware of the requiremnet to watch out. I have quite a large mailing list and will keep these beekeepers informed.
This came into my inbox today:
https://www.ecrotek.com.au/products/formic-pro-2-pkt
$ 20 per hive!!!
I wonder how many are willing to spend this much a couple of times a year?
The use seems easy enough. It is "organic".
I use FormicPro sometimes, and it is very easy to use and organic. The biggest benefit is that it is the only treatment (that I am aware of anyway) that kills mites under the brood cappings. It also will kill sick bees, so I always use it if a have a hive that is acting sick along with having a high mite count. Plus, it's safe for supers (although I personally still don't treat with supers on, since I'm worried about the smell of it being transferred to the honey). The downside is it's very temperature sensitive and will release too quickly if the temps are too hot, potentially leading to queen supersedure, excessive brood mortality, and absconding. I only use it at the lower end of the recommended temperature range, and I've never had any of these problems. That price is about the same as over here, actually it's a little bit cheaper for you guys (and yes, I did remember to convert AUD to USD :wink: ). It's a very efficacious product, so I've never treated a hive more than once a year with it.
Thanks for this information.
One treatment a year would be great!
How many hives do you have?
Does the product come as a bulk pack ( looking for savings :grin:)
Much appreacited!
Max,
Bee careful with this product. It bought it in 2012. I did a test run with one of my empty hives. After just one day I had a big hole in the screen top board and the screen bottom board.
Also when I called to order this product, I asked how much the shipping cost was. The girl said that she didn?t know. At that time, it was $60 for the chemical and then I found out that they changed me $60 for shipping hazardous material.
If they tell you they don?t know, cancel the order.
Jim Altmiller
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on April 27, 2024, 07:45:21 AM
Max,
Bee careful with this product. It bought it in 2012. I did a test run with one of my empty hives. After just one day I had a big hole in the screen top board and the screen bottom board.
If this was 2012 that you had this experience, Jim, then that wasn't FormicPro, it was Mite Away Quicks Strips. MAQS was the precursor to FormicPro and had a different formulation. I used MAQS the last year it was available around here, before it was replaced by FormicPro, which I think happened in like 2020, and MAQS was much less nice of a product. Also it now says on the FormicPro instructions not to use screened covers during a treatment, although screened bottom boards are fine as long as the entrance is fully open and the insert is in. I have mostly screened bottom boards, and I've never had any trouble with it.
Quote from: max2 on April 27, 2024, 05:14:10 AM
How many hives do you have?
I have 10 hives.
Quote from: max2 on April 27, 2024, 05:14:10 AM
Does the product come as a bulk pack ( looking for savings :grin:)
I think I have seen bulk purchasing available on their website or from big bee suppliers. I don't know what the deal with shipping to Australia would be, but I'm sure you could find out. The company that makes it is called NOD Apiary Products, here is their website. https://nodglobal.com/
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on April 27, 2024, 07:45:21 AM
Max,
Bee careful with this product. It bought it in 2012. I did a test run with one of my empty hives. After just one day I had a big hole in the screen top board and the screen bottom board.
Also when I called to order this product, I asked how much the shipping cost was. The girl said that she didn?t know. At that time, it was $60 for the chemical and then I found out that they changed me $60 for shipping hazardous material.
If they tell you they don?t know, cancel the order.
Jim Altmiller
Jim,
"holes" from the product?
Quote from: The15thMember on April 27, 2024, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: BeeMaster2 on April 27, 2024, 07:45:21 AM
Max,
Bee careful with this product. It bought it in 2012. I did a test run with one of my empty hives. After just one day I had a big hole in the screen top board and the screen bottom board.
If this was 2012 that you had this experience, Jim, then that wasn't FormicPro, it was Mite Away Quicks Strips. MAQS was the precursor to FormicPro and had a different formulation. I used MAQS the last year it was available around here, before it was replaced by FormicPro, which I think happened in like 2020, and MAQS was much less nice of a product. Also it now says on the FormicPro instructions not to use screened covers during a treatment, although screened bottom boards are fine as long as the entrance is fully open and the insert is in. I have mostly screened bottom boards, and I've never had any trouble with it.
Quote from: max2 on April 27, 2024, 05:14:10 AM
How many hives do you have?
I have 10 hives.
Quote from: max2 on April 27, 2024, 05:14:10 AM
Does the product come as a bulk pack ( looking for savings :grin:)
I think I have seen bulk purchasing available on their website or from big bee suppliers. I don't know what the deal with shipping to Australia would be, but I'm sure you could find out. The company that makes it is called NOD Apiary Products, here is their website. https://nodglobal.com/
With 10 hives the cost start to add up...but cheaper then losing hives.
I'm already starting to get orders for Spring nuc's.
varroa has not arrived at my door as yet but I'm considering my next move during the "quiet time".
thanks
Quote from: max2 on April 27, 2024, 02:44:56 PM
Jim,
"holes" from the product?
Formic acid is highly corrosive, so it can eat holes through mesh. You shouldn't set the bare pads on metal lids either.
Quote from: max2 on April 27, 2024, 02:48:08 PM
With 10 hives the cost start to add up...but cheaper then losing hives.
I don't treat every hive every year with FormicPro, only hives that are performing very poorly where varroa is concerned. Hives with moderate infestations get OAV, because it's less hard on the bees and less hard on my wallet. :wink:
Lithium chloride
More work needed
https://view.flodesk.com/emails/664b505c662b8a27e8f749c0
CO2 - I rather like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXUuwe6ysIo
Worth a try - i wonder how many bees survive?
Quote from: max2 on December 21, 2023, 04:21:29 AM
This summary has just been mailed:
https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/1486513/DPI-Primefact-Varroa-mite-management-options_final-.pdf?&mkt_tok=NjQzLU5PRy0zMDAAAAGQKRMptKZFuOd_WQv-eQtZY7-mjKpHpeFPXZPCI-a-UAmMx-M718tXMeLDMEfEZNl3jSthviIYa_zL3T1wWyvZzFkff8Yefw7EXGHWesyi
It looks to me a good one and quite comprehensive.
The problem is that for us, in the subtropics , it does not offer any acceptable solutions.
We are never broodless, we may take honey off any time during the year.
I will have a chat with some of my friends with a lot more hives then i have...but I can hear them already. They will simply use any available strips.
There are realy cowboy methods used to deal with SHB ( eg Fironil) and why would beekeepers use IPM? Too time consuming...
And for the people with just a few hives? Will they check their brood every 16 weeks?
Pigs may fly...
Have the folks at The Department of Primary Industries of NSW rethought the brood break strategy? The page has been taken down.
???? - did you watch the video?
Ich varche der video. It has one review on Mann Lake website.
"C02 gun for varroa
by Gina on Feb 22, 2024
This is the 3rd c02 gun. This is the only 1 that has worked. I was told 2 squirts, bees knocked out 30 seconds. Well, they were moving so I got trigger happy so 2 more squirts. Bees were out a solid minute, n minute 1/2. They finally woke up, alive and moving around. I scooped them off the concrete block and put in hive. I'm so happy I have 1 that works and no killing bees in the process."
Quote from: max2 on June 13, 2024, 07:43:28 AM
???? - did you watch the video?
I did watch the video. My comment was not on the video, but the site that you had posted previously. I quoted. so there would be no confusion. The page on that site has been taken down, apparently by the agency? When clicked on I get >page not found<.
As far as the video on your last post; interesting.
It would have been nice if it would have shown the surviving bees after they regained consciousness. Which would have answered your question as to how many Bees survived.
Also, not trying to be critical, has this method been double tested for accuracy? In other words has a particular group of bees, tested in this manner, immediately been submerged in Alcohol to see how many >more< mites might have been released from the same group of Bees? It seems to me the alcohol wash would be more accurate, affording a truer mite count because of the swishing around of the liquid, which would not only kill mites, but actually wash dead mites free from the bees more efficiently.
Another question; Do the mites actually die with the CO2 method as an alcohol wash? I assume the purpose of the CO2 test is to save bees. Will the mites also regain consciousness?
If so, I can see this method being an asset if used in a laboratory setting, where live mites may be easily retrieved, revived, and studied.
According to the sole review on Mann Lake's website, the bees did wake up after a little bit. Whether or not they died from the trauma could well be another story. Either way, that guy has one heavy mite load, he mite want to take care of that.
Yes I seen your previous post after I had posted. Thanks.
There are other key questions I ask as well.
???? - any answers Max?
Someone else perhaps?
Phillip
;
QuoteDo the mites actually die with the CO2 method as an alcohol wash? I assume the purpose of the CO2 test is to save bees. Will the mites also regain consciousness?
This is the way I have done mite checks for, probably going on 8 yrs now. Im sure some of the bees die/ but when you dump them back into the hive the majority of them come back to. The mites are not killed.
I do it, cause for me its quicker, and I dont have to strain alcohol. I had a lot of people tell me it was not a good method when I started, they had been using it in New Zealand, and I believe thats where I got the rig from in 2015 I think. Did it side by side with an alcohol wash the 1st year, and never went back to alcohol again.
Thanks for the positive report Bill.
Phillip
Quote from: Bill Murray on June 13, 2024, 10:45:10 AM
; QuoteDo the mites actually die with the CO2 method as an alcohol wash? I assume the purpose of the CO2 test is to save bees. Will the mites also regain consciousness?
This is the way I have done mite checks for, probably going on 8 yrs now. Im sure some of the bees die/ but when you dump them back into the hive the majority of them come back to. The mites are not killed.
I do it, cause for me its quicker, and I dont have to strain alcohol. I had a lot of people tell me it was not a good method when I started, they had been using it in New Zealand, and I believe thats where I got the rig from in 2015 I think. Did it side by side with an alcohol wash the 1st year, and never went back to alcohol again.
Thanks, Bill.
The video I posted is in German ( I speak german) but the only reference is to Mannlake .
This is the link:
https://www.mannlakeltd.com/feeding-medications/co2-injector-for-varroa-easycheck/#product-reviews
There is one review - a positive one.
I have not seen the product advertised here.
I noticed Formis Plus is advertised and no doubt more products will become available.
If this CO2 gun works - great.
I wonder if more readers can report their experience?
thanks.
PS It is 25C here today - nearly midwinter. The bees are busy as.
So MAX, an interesting thing here. The o-ring went bad in the co2 gun and I purchased a tire pump gizmo off amazon. works just the same.
Bill, I Googled " CO2 GUN" - it is like Googling " Russian Queens" - you never know what you are getting: https://www.specialfx.com.au/products/magicfx-co2-gun-ii
Couldn?t the o ring be replaced?
Not happy with Formic. What is the alternative?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN23eKudJOs
Max a couple things. Ive struggled with this issue and found what works for me and gives me acceptable losses,Is more or less cost effective (without resorting to off label usage), and dosnt eat into to much time.
1) It was a small bicycle tire inflater that the co2 cartridge screws into.
2) Randy Oliver tested it (didnt like it) go here https://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-using-co2-for-bee-friendly-mite-monitoring/ (https://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-using-co2-for-bee-friendly-mite-monitoring/) The thing I look for, is the after treatment count the treatment either worked or it didnt, the bees either still have mites or they dont.
I treat across the board in January before build up and July after I pull honey supers. I used to do a precheck but dont anymore. But the 25% after check is vitally important because I have treated and the treatments not work.
3) I didnt like formic either ( queen issues ), Ive been using apiguard in the summer and found it to be the lesser stressing on the bees as long as I do the right dosage.
Terri it was some kinda poured silicone thing, tried an O ring but it kept twisting up. I put all the time I was going to into the o ring issue when I could buy something for under 20 bucks.
What are two natural ways to visibly see the natural kaleidoscope of nectar & honey with human eyes?
If you know of more, feel free to let me know.
Of course this is not a pop quiz with a quick response. Take some time, it only took myself 3-4 days. If it takes you less time then lets get started work on the 43 options to rid all disease and pests once and for all.
Quote from: Ben Framed on June 13, 2024, 08:53:34 AM
Quote from: max2 on June 13, 2024, 07:43:28 AM
???? - did you watch the video?
I did watch the video. My comment was not on the video, but the site that you had posted previously. I quoted. so there would be no confusion. The page on that site has been taken down, apparently by the agency? When clicked on I get >page not found<.
As far as the video on your last post; interesting.
It would have been nice if it would have shown the surviving bees after they regained consciousness. Which would have answered your question as to how many Bees survived.
Also, not trying to be critical, has this method been double tested for accuracy? In other words has a particular group of bees, tested in this manner, immediately been submerged in Alcohol to see how many >more< mites might have been released from the same group of Bees? It seems to me the alcohol wash would be more accurate, affording a truer mite count because of the swishing around of the liquid, which would not only kill mites, but actually wash dead mites free from the bees more efficiently.
Another question; Do the mites actually die with the CO2 method as an alcohol wash? I assume the purpose of the CO2 test is to save bees. Will the mites also regain consciousness?
If so, I can see this method being an asset if used in a laboratory setting, where live mites may be easily retrieved, revived, and studied.
Max I?m still curious. You never replied. Do you have answers to the above?