Should I take off the medium super? ....

[Bee1]

Hello Beekeeps â€" I’d like to get your opinions and hear your suggestions.   I’m unsure of what I to do, if anything.   
Should I take off the medium super? Should I leave it in the middle?  or On top?

I have one bee hive that I began from a package of bees in April.  I seem to have a good number of bees but the hive is probably not as strong as it should be.  It’s hot and dry and there is little to no honey in the hive and I’ve started feeding again and I think I may need to take off the medium super but I’m not sure.  The problem is I’ve mucked around with the order of the supers…  and I don’t know what my bees want or need for the coming weeks/months. 

Details below. 

my hive consists of three layers, one deep brood nest, one medium super and one shallow super. 

As of today, It’s stacked like this.

bottom - Deep brood nest, the only hive body with brood and eggs
middle - Shallow super, comb drawn out on all frames, honey in center of a few
top -  Medium super, comb is being drawn out…. (no brood, no honey), I alternated every other frame with a starter strip vs a full sheet of foundation). 

All the hive bodies have been on the hive for awhile now… initially I put the shallow super on 2nd .   I thought it was a medium super, I only realized it was a shallow when I added the 3 tier… oops.

I left it this way (deep, shallow, med) for a bit  (till most of the foundation was drawn out and they were beginning to store honey) but then got thinking  (trouble) that I needed another tier and that  I really wanted the medium super for brood and the shallow for honey. 

So I moved the shallow super up when I added a third super (making the order deep, medium, shallow).  I left it this way for maybe 5-6 weeks (until today),  and the bees don’t seem to have made much progress -- they still haven’t drawn out the comb in the medium and it looks like they stopped storing honey in any meaningful amount in the shallow.  ( I think I just mucked’em up a bit).

Any way, how to I encourage (and help) these guys build up honey stores & population?   
Should I take off the medium super? Should I leave it in the middle?  or On top?
Aaah!  That is my question.  I hope you could follow along. 

Thanks

[Moonshae]

I would say that leaving the deep and medium would be better than the deep and shallow. If they've stored things in the shallow, leave all three. As long as there are enough bees to defend the space, it won't be an issue.

If you're not having a flow, feeding is a good idea to help them draw comb. You shouldn't be planning to harvest this year anyway (especially since you say there's little honey in the hive), so helping them to build up into the space they have is fine.

[Kathyp]

i think you slow things down by swapping around to much.  why don't you decide how you want them for winter, make them that way, and feed the tar out of them between now and then.  if you aren't going to get honey, and it sounds like you aren't, concentrate on making them ready for winter.

i have put pollen patties back on my slow hive also.  it seems to help.

[newbee07]

I would put the med. super back over the body, Take the shallow supper off , and add a queen excluder between the deep and let them store honey in the med. also for the bees food. You will give them good space to take care of and feed them that way also for the winter. I have and know plenty thats like this during winter. Take care of the bees before you let them take care of you.

[CBEE]

Throw the feed to them and make sure they have enough for winter.  We have been in such a derth here that the bees are sucking down syrup like there is no tomorow. They still have not finished drawing out the 2nd deep much less anything above that.
From everything I have read here and other sources you have just enough room to keep the queen happy so I would not bother with the queen excluder. It may slow them down more.

[Kathyp]

i would not use an excluder either.  the bees will fill with honey what the queen does not need, but they need the space for her until her laying slows down.

[newbee07]

I don't know why i said excluder for i don't use them at all. I used them in the past.

[steve]

Bee1, considering where you live a hive body and a shallow super will be more than enough to get you through the winter (60# of honey). Feed two to one sugar syrup mix to get you there. Also check the brood chamber frames for an ample supply of pollen...lastly  ensure your mite count is kept in check....
                                                   good luck
                                                         Steve   

[Understudy]

Stop rotating.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stopswitching

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[Bee1]

Alright guys and gals, Thanks for all the help so far....

I know… switching is a mess… and I will stop… I promise… but things got messed up… or so I thought… and now I’m trying to make it as right as possible… 

I'm not worried about getting honey, I just want to get through winter...

If one deep and one shallow should get the bees and me through the winter I will go with that…  that way the bees have the bit of honey they already stored.   

When I take the medium super off…  how do I get the bees out?  Do I have to shake or brush them off  or can I just set the super on the ground near the hive and let the bees find there way back?   

Also, is there anything I need to do with the partially drawn out frames I am removing?  How do I store them? 

Again.. I appreciate everyones advice and help!!!   Thanks….

Bee1

PS
I am feeding 2-1 sugar water... and will check into the pollen uhmmm..  and bugs don't seem to be a problem right now... 

[Michael Bush]

Sure would be nice if all those were the same size frames...

You still have some time before winter and there may be a big fall flow yet.  I would leave things alone until about October or November and then assess the situation.

[Bee1]

i totally agree.  it would be nice it everything was the same size...  ugh.  I hope to go in that direction eventually ....  but this is what I have to work with now. ..  All my equipement was given to me and I'm grateful for the start ... but now have to figure out how to gracefully get control. 

So Micheal,  you're saying leave everything on (all 3 layers??)  ... and feed and watch for now... 

so then my question is... should the shallow deep with some honey be directly above the brood   or should the medium frame that's not all drawn out be directly about the brood? 

My conflict is a combo of frame depth and order on the hive...cuz my ideal would be to have been deep & medium for brood, and shallow for honey... ... but maybe it doesn't matter.. at this point

Bee1, struggling to get it together for her bees...

[Brian D. Bray]

I think you're learning one of the reasons having all the same size equipment is so adventageous.  The bees don't care what order the super sizes are in so why should you?  I would stick with MB's recommendation.  I'm experiencing a dearth of sorts right now but there is traditionally at least one more honey flow in early-mid Sept that could quickly fill up the unused/unfilled space.  If you haven't experienced another flow by late Sept then feed.  We have a tendency to be to solicitous of our bees and outhink nature.  It's a habit that can cause unnecessary problems via tampering where bees are concerned.

[Michael Bush]

>So Micheal,  you're saying leave everything on (all 3 layers??)  ... and feed and watch for now...

Yes.  We could still have a fall flow and you could feed them up a bit and see what they have stored then.

>so then my question is... should the shallow deep with some honey be directly above the brood   or should the medium frame that's not all drawn out be directly about the brood?

It really doesn't matter at this point.

>My conflict is a combo of frame depth and order on the hive...cuz my ideal would be to have been deep & medium for brood, and shallow for honey... ... but maybe it doesn't matter.. at this point

You can swap them if you like, but at this point you're not getting honey if you are feeding.