Could you help me think through my first splits?

twb · April 28, 2008, 05:20:07 PM

Too chilly to split yet for 2 or 3 days but I have 2 boomer hives, each with 1 deep 1 med 1 deep configuration with brood in all three (not my set up choice but that's another story). My first choice is to take off the top deep, try to get queenie into deep+med hive and let the one deep requeen itself. Do I run the risk of the hive requeening itself swarming at this time of year? I read something about this danger, but it doesn't make sense if they are queenless.

Plan B was to inspect this week, if queen found, isolate her to deep + med, add a qeen excluder, place 2nd deep over it and come back in 7 days with queen I purchase and requeen. (Take top deep off 24 hrs b4 reqeening) If queen is not found I can still add an excluder and look for eggs in 5-7 days. Got any easier ideas I may be overlooking or am I thinking along the right lines?

doak · April 28, 2008, 06:51:25 PM

If they have already started on Queen cells, that is, have growing larvae in the Queen cup/cell, well, at this point there is two or three choices, and they may not work.

#1 split and make sure each split has some Queen cells, with growing larvae or capped , and hope for the best.

#2 leave it till it swarms then split, not a good choice. You loose a lot of bees.

#3 go through each box and locate the queen and keep her in a safe place.
Go through one frame at the time and tear out all queen cells.
Split at this time and make sure you know which one the queen is in.
Go back in 5 days and tear out queen cells in the one that has the queen.

Let the other one build queen cells unless you plan to order a new queen.

If there are plenty bees, eggs and brood you could make a 3 way split, giving the queen to the smallest,
sorta a nuc.

At any rate once they have developed the urge to swarm and started Queen cells,
At this time any and every thing you do may not prevent them from swarming.

This is a good time to use that queen excluder.
Place a deep hive body with frames of foundation or drawn comb on a bottom board and put the queen excluder on that. next take an empty deep and place on that.
Take the top box from the hive and place on the empty. fumigate your fume board and place it on top and about 10 minutes all but a hand full of bees should have went through the excluder.
Now you can inspect that little bunch of left over bees to see if the queen is with them.
Once this is done you can tilt the hive body/super/brood box, what ever you choose to call it.Tilt it on end and look underneath to check for queen cells on the bottom of the frames, plus you should be able to see up between most of the frames for cells.
Continue till all three boxes have been checked. now you can check for queen cells and/or split or reconfigure your stack, as desired.

If possible try to end up with the queen on bottom with eggs and uncapped brood, and some drawn comb. Drawn comb or foundation should go on next.Put the capped and emerging brood on top, as they don't the attention of uncapped.

Yes, I know there may be faster easer ways. But I have found this is a good way to do it and not endanger the Queen as much.

Don't forget, swarm prevention comes before swarm control.
doak

jimmyo · April 28, 2008, 07:33:27 PM

I like doak #3 idea the best. number one would be ok but #2 should be avoided if possible. We don't buy queens. We make nucs or splits most of the time. If we aren't watching we do idea #2 by accident. :)
Jim

sarafina · April 28, 2008, 07:37:38 PM

If you live in an AHB area like I do, should you let them raise their own queen and take a chance she mates with non-AHB drones? Or buy a new queen?

doak · April 28, 2008, 07:55:02 PM

You best go with the new Queen if that is where you are.
No need to say more.
doak

Michael Bush · April 28, 2008, 09:19:19 PM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm

twb · April 28, 2008, 10:04:45 PM

Am I correct in thinking I can confine the queen to one deep or even the one medium in this scenario (see my original question) for one week while I wait for queens I might order. And if I confine her by using queen excluder(s) will that keep the hive from thinking they are queenless and starting queen cells? I ask only because I might find her this week when I inspect and confining her would lessen the pressure to find her later.

doak · April 28, 2008, 10:27:30 PM

I have to ask forgiveness.
I didn't pay attention to where you are.
I don't think the AHB'S have got that far north yet.
I hope you do have some more boxes, deep or medium, makes no diff. if so go ahead and add another box if you cannot get to them in the next 4or5 days.
When you have a day above 50 degrees get in and do my #3.
Try to make sure and try to get 'all' the queen cells out of the one you leave the queen in.
The feral bees are not really that bad. If you are lucky and don't get the little black ones.
All I have is from feral stock.
Don't be afraid to get in there and do your thing. Just suit up good.

If you don't have very many extra hive bodies"deep ones" or supers now is time to get more.

I am going to post a new topic on swarms so I don't be looking like I am high jacking yours thread.
It will give some insight on what your about to do.
doak

BMAC · April 28, 2008, 10:46:09 PM

Quote from: sarafina on April 28, 2008, 07:37:38 PM
If you live in an AHB area like I do, should you let them raise their own queen and take a chance she mates with non-AHB drones? Or buy a new queen?

I would buy a new one if I were you. although the guy I worked for successfully made many many queens just north of you a few hours.

doak · April 28, 2008, 10:57:57 PM

Hope they are not in central Ga. yet. I am going to try my luck at rearing a few this year.Fixing to set up a six nuc Queen yard. :)doak

Brian D. Bray · April 29, 2008, 01:14:07 AM

When you split make sure there is at least 1 or 2 frames of undrawn frames adjacent to your brood area of each split. Keeping the bees drawing comb in the brood chamber is the best way to keep them from swarming and you can build them up and split them or go for strength and harvest.
When putting in undrawn frames into the brood chamber the best method, that has worked for me, is to remove the #1 & 10 frames slide Frames 2 & 3 and 8 & 9 to the outside and install the new frames in the 3 & 7 position. This places the frames on the outsides of the brood nest (usually) but still keeps the bees building worker comb. If the queen is laying on 8 frames out of 10 then just slide 1 frame to the outsides.